New van 1987 2WD LE Brougham w/61k... a few questions!

[skibum]

Remember, 4WD and 2WD radiators are not the same. Neither is manual or automatic transmission.

[Deesh]

Junkyard van had the same after market fan clutch that is already in my van, so I woke up early this morning and pulled my the radiator. It's at the radiator shop now where they are going to rod it out... should have it back in this afternoon and will let yall know if my woes are finally over or at least on their way to being resolved.
Spending time and money while watching the temp run hot have been a bit stressful, but it feels good to be getting a crash course in the mechanics of my van.

[Deesh]

put in the rodded radiator, the radiator guy said that it was pretty clean and probably wasn't contributing to my overheating problem. $100 to cross that off the list of culprits, i can live with that i guess.

installed the radiator, refilled antifreeze, all the hoses looked good and the installation went without a hitch. started the car and after a few minutes settled on 4/8 of the meter. I noticed the fan clutch was engaged the entire time (maybe from sitting for a while?) but when i drove around the neighborhood for a few minutes the temp meter went back to its 55-60% driving - 60-75% a lights routine. drove home and parked the car, noticed a slow drip leak under the passenger side of the radiator hopefully i didn't clamp a hose right... but im guessing i need to pull the radiator again and bring it back to the radiator guy .

one last thing both times when draining my radiator, on the refill it fills up with 1.25-1.5 gallons of coolant, when i thought the system was supposed to take 2 gallons, is this a clue to anything?

[timsrv]

That sucks about time and money spent on the radiator, but I wouldn't consider it wasted. You would never have known without having it opened & checked. Now you know one more thing that it isn't & you have the reassurance that it's in good condition . This sort of thing is normal and to be expected at times. I've been there too & would do it this same way again. Every thing you do you become one step closer to finding the solution. The radiator guys should have leak tested before giving it back to you. I've had a lot of radiator work done over the years and have never got one back with a leak (knock on wood). If it's something they did that would reflect badly on them (at least in my eyes).

Have you verified actual running temps yet? There's a reason OEM car manufacturers usually don't put numbers on the temp gauges..........It's because the grade of gauge system they use is typically low and there can be huge variances from one gauge to the next. 200 deg F might be 1/4 range on one gauge but be 5/8 on another. You can't troubleshoot until you know what's normal (so either verify the spot on your factory gauge or get a quality gauge with numbers). If you go with an aftermarket gauge, don't go with the capillary type as the probes are typically too short for use on a van. Get a quality one with an electric sending unit so you can make the wire any length required. There's a good spot to mount a single gauge just to the left of the factory gauge cluster (on top of the dash). I put a transmission temp gauge there on mine. Here's a thread that shows that and other possible gauge locations: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...ometer-Install

Just a couple other obvious things I wanted to ask. Are you using a premixed type of antifreeze or a concentrate? If concentrate, what ratio of antifreeze to water are you using? You might have already said, but I wanted to verify that you replaced the thermostat with an OEM Toyota t-stat.

1 1/2 gallons is about normal. Even when you drain the block there is still residual inside. I've filled dry cooling systems before (after engine rebuilds) & if I remember right, I think they still took a tiny bit less than 2 gallons. Tim

[Deesh]

Thanks for the encouragement, I actually went and bought a temp gauge after posting to get a better idea of what's going on under there. Not quite sure where to put the sensor part though... Which one is the current temp gauge, think I might to a temporary swap I figure out the running temps.

i bought premixed 50/50 just to have steady control variable, plus they were on sale.

and yes I have a new oem tstat in the van so it shoul be working properly, these ever faulty out of the box?

[timsrv]

I personally have never got a bad Toyota t-stat. I would think that's not too likely........I would think almost impossible to get a new one with the same problem as the one you just took out. It's good to use 50/50 pre-mix as you don't need to worry about mix ratios and/or issues with hose water (acidity, mineral content, etc). Here's a picture of the ports on the head for coolant temp sensors/temp switches:



The one marked "stock temp sender" is the one for your factory temp gauge. The plugged port in front (extra unused port) is a good place for an aftermarket temperature gauge. Most gauge kits will come with adapter(s) to fit this size. If not a performance oriented auto parts store should have them readily available. A good way to run the wire is to drill a hole in the floor pan on the right side & to the front of the radiator. Then run the wire under the carpet & up into the dash area. Here's a picture of the last time I ran wires in this fashion:



Note the location of the temp switch I'm running the wires to in the above picture. The factory switch in this location is all but worthless so an alternative to using the "extra unused port" is to use this location for an aftermarket temperature gauge. Just take the single wire that goes to the factory temp switch & ground it somewhere. I'm using that port for a switch to trigger an electric fan. For more info on this mod check out this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...amous-hot-soak

[Deesh]

What's the process for opening up the unused port? I have to drill it out right, a walk through would be great as it sounds like an easy but potentially hazardous task. Thanks!

[timsrv]

You unscrew it with an Allen wrench.........at least that's the initial plan. Toyota puts these in pretty tight with some sort of sealer so they can be tough. About half the time they will come out without issue. The other half, not so much. I've had to drill them out before too. I forget the wrench size but it's either 8 or 10 mm (10 I think). Warm up the engine 1st and use a cheater bar over the wrench. Hopefully it will budge before the wrench slips and damages the plug. The temp switch on the filler neck usually comes out pretty easy, so at least there's that option. Tim

PS: If your Allen wrench slips and rounds off the inside of the plug, unless you have experience drilling, using an easy-out and tapping, I'd recommend abandoning that port & moving to the filler neck. Rounding out the plug inside won't create any issues (other than complicating removal) but once you drill a hole in it you're committed.

[Deesh]

Okay great I'm going to attempt this this weekend, curious to see what's going on. Also, I found the leak (luckily it was my error and after refastening the hose clamp and pushing it on a few mm further the leak stopped. The van still runs at the same spot on the gauge right at or a hair above 50% but now the increase at stop lights has become much less significant.

After running the car for about 25 min today I popped up the seat and there was a gurgling of the overflow tank, not too alarming but a bit than usual as fr as I've witnessed is this normal? Also after turning off the van if I put my key in and turn it without starting the engine but enough to turn on the gauges te temp goes up to the end of the white part of the scale, I know it should go up because airflow stops cooling but is this bad for the van?

Finally feel like progress is being made though!

[timsrv]

It's normal to see a surge in temp & some transfer of coolant to the overflow tank immediately after shut-down. Not only does airflow stop but so does coolant circulation. Normally you wouldn't notice because you normally wouldn't open the hood immediately after shut-down. Tim

[Deesh]

okay, googd news i think. I put in an after market temp gauge, its leaking very slowly in the crappy adapter piece (im going to fix this or take it out all together) but before i do i drove around the block to get it up to temp. 4/8 is about 195 and where it sits is a steady 200 while driving and a 205-207ish after sitting at a long light with the ac on in the bright florida sun... sooo my scary zone of 6/8 is under 210 (barely over the 205). are these temps I should be satisfied with?

oh and after turning my car off when all the fans and air stops the temp reading went up to 225 and is slowly coming down, this normal?

[timsrv]

Yes, this sounds good. Up to 210 is fine for short periods in extreme conditions.....like sitting at an idle on a hot day with the AC on or after coming to a stop immediately following freeway driving, pulling a heavy load, or driving up a steep hill. But in normal conditions while cruising it should be stable at around 195-205 (on hot days you will normally see it closer to 205). 210 is actually okay for extended periods, but if it gets this hot for long periods of normal driving it's an indication something is wrong. As mentioned earlier even up to 220 for SHORT periods isn't going to hurt anything but in normal conditions you should never see it that high. There can be exceptions though. You should not run the AC for long periods while at an idle. On a hot day while idling the fan clutch doesn't move enough air to keep up with both the engine & the AC. If you find yourself doing that a lot, you might want to adjust your AC amplifier to kill the compressor at low RPMs. This will prevent the AC from blowing cold while at an idle but it will return to normal as soon as you start cruising again (this can potentially save your van from overheating). If you're behind the wheel and you want the AC to run, you always have the option of putting in park, then increasing RPMs with the gas pedal. This will allow the compressor to run AND the fan clutch to move enough air (depending on where you set the amplifier). If you're stopped at a light don't increase the RPMs while in gear as this will create excess heat in your automatic transmission.

It's normal to see spikes in temp after shut-down. This doesn't hurt anything as the moving parts of your engine are at rest. When you start back up the temp will quickly drop as the air and coolant circulation begin again. Tim

[kcg795]

It's too bad you can't get the Prestone Gen 2 thermostats anymore. I'm still using one in my Van and I never had any issues with my engine overheating while flooring it uphill trying to overtake as many cars as I can in 100 degree weather. I've only seen my temperature right around 60%. But climbing those hills with the clutch fan roaring while barely topping out at 65 MPH at WOT, it's usually at around 40%. I'm still on the original radiator at 240,000 miles. Guess taking my radiator out and flushing a garden hose through one way and the other helps too.