slight (but constant) electrical short

[timsrv]

It's a bad connection at a battery terminal or a large battery cable. Pay particularly close attention to the big starter wire at both ends. Wiggle terminals & connections to check for something loose. If that turns nothing up, then have somebody try to crank while you inspect these areas. Look for sparks, wisps of smoke, and listen for "sizzling" sounds. If you find a spot where any of this is going on, then you've found the bad spot. You might also want to check the battery post voltage while somebody tries to crank just in case the problem is internal to the battery. It's rare but I've seen this before. Tim

[foreverly]

I agree with Tim you have a bad battery connection. This probably helped to fry your alternator - I think the same thing may have happened to BurntBoot if you read his most current thread.

Take the cables off the battery, grab the ends & pull the wire. You might find that the ends pull right off (not good!). Unscrew the battery lead from the cable, look for green nastiness & clean the leads & cables. Reinstall, make sure that all of the cables on the positive lead get a good connection. I think there is the main cable & two fusible links - its important that they all get a good solid connection to the battery adapter.

At first I thought it might be your positive terminal but you might be having a grounding issue too. So check the cabling real good & the points where they terminate.

I'm beginning to realize that the battery & the leads get hammered pretty hard in the spot they are located. Many vans don't have the battery brace anymore - this in conjunction with being located right next to the front suspension puts a lot of stress on the cabling going over bumps & pot holes.

Get yourself a wire brush & do a little cleaning - your van should start right up afterwards.

[jbrush]

hi folks,

well, it's starting again! and the voltage while running is 14.5 V, so looks like the alternator is good as well. great news.

i got laid out with the flu for two weeks, so it took me a while to get back to the van, but when i did it went pretty smoothly. i cleaned all the connections to the battery post etc., but it still wouldn't work; then i did some more troubleshooting and discovered that the drop in voltage on cranking started showing up at the first exposed braided wires on the big cable. seems there was a bit of corrosion inside the part that connected the wire braid to the metal "boot" that connects to the hoop that gets screwed onto the post. i cleaned it w/ baking soda + water, and then just clamped down really hard on the metal crimp to force a stronger physical connection. works now -- but probably that's a weak spot. do folk recommend cutting the cable and crimping a new boot on?

anyway, with that it started up fine. thanks for all the help!

fwiw, i notice that it seems to be running "rich" or something: smelly, white smoke coming out the exhaust, even after 15 mins of running. it hasn't run for basically 8 months at this point -- anything i should specifically be looking out for?

again, thanks everyone.
.brush

[timsrv]

do folk recommend cutting the cable and crimping a new boot on?

anyway, with that it started up fine. thanks for all the help!

fwiw, i notice that it seems to be running "rich" or something: smelly, white smoke coming out the exhaust, even after 15 mins of running............

Yes, cut the old lug off and re-strip. If the corrosion has crept up the cable, then cut again as necessary until you find shiny copper. If this makes the cable too short then replace the whole thing. If you still have enough cable, then you can replace just the lug. There are special crimpers for this, but you can do a "so so" job with vice grips. You can purchase pre-made cables of various lengths at most auto parts stores, so that might be the better option.

The smoke concerns me a bit. Does it smell like antifreeze? burning oil? does it burn your eyes? FWIW, Smoke from burning oil is bluish white and smells like, well, burning oil. This is usually due to poor oil control inside your engine.......specifically piston rings or worn valve guides.

White smoke is usually the result of coolant leaking into a combustion area. Specific causes are usually a blown head gasket or a crack in the head or block. Any mechanic can usually take one whiff and smell the antifreeze (kind of a sweet but bitter smell). A side effect of this is an unexplained loss of coolant.

Black/sooty smoke is the result of running rich. Reasons for this can vary, but it's usually due to a bad o2 sensor or bad TPS. The ECU will compensate for a bad sensor by going into a default mode (it's blind without the sensors, so rather than risk running too lean, it will default to rich). Running rich stinks and will burn your nose and eyes if you get a good whiff. Out of the 3 kinds of smoke, this is the best one to have as it's typically easily remedied without requiring engine tear-down. Tim

[skibum]

I'd probably get a whole new cable, with the factory ends, as opposed to the screw on ones. I just had to replace one of the battery cables on one of my excavators that had one of the replacement, clamp on, ends. Same as your's, that was where the problem was. I just went to the auto parts store and got a ready-made cable, of the right length and I'm good to go. I don't think I paid more than $10 for an 18" cable.

[skibum]

I see we agree on the battery cables, basically, Tim. I must have been typing while you were posting .

I'll agree with your smoke "signals". I seem to remember someone telling me that the bluish/white smoke that would be attributed to oil could be further diagnosed as:

Start-up and then it goes away = guides, while continuous smoking = rings.

Your statement that the exhaust is smelly suggests oil.

Like Tim said, a significant amount of coolant loss would suggest head gasket, and it would have to be pretty significant to really see it in the exhaust, I'd think.

[jbrush]

well, a quick update on the smoke. i checked all the fluids, and levels are all good without any sign of discoloration or sludge. i suspect that it's simply accumulated moisture from sitting outside all winter. so i ran the van for 15 or 20 minutes till it got to normal operating temp, and sure enough the "smoke" more or less completely disappeared. i'll let it sit and try and again tomorrow in case it's the slow leaking oil problem, but really the smoke/steam didn't look very blue to me. if anything, slightly gray. and definitely didn't smell like antifreeze. really, it just smelled like ... stinky exhaust fumes.

i'll keep an eye on it to see if the whiteness comes back. are there other ways to check for burning oil? (other than watching the dipstick.)

[jbrush]

ok, update from this morning's test: basically no smoke/steam. after a few minutes there was a slight bit of visible something, but really nothing to speak of. pretty sure the issue on startup yesterday was just accumulated condensation inside the engine/muffler etc.

thanks everyone for all the help!