Starting problem-checked coil, cap, and rotor

[JFratzke]

I have been driving my 87 cargo conversion lately because my LE is in the shop. Wouldn't you know it, now I am having a problem with it! I drove it to work the other day and when I went to leave, it started up just fine. As I was backing out, I killed it and now it will not start. It cranks and occasionally sounds like it is going to turn over. I flooded it for sure (I could smell gas outside and behind the exhaust) so I am sure I am getting fuel.

I decided to undertake this repair myself so I checked for spark and had none. I replaced the distributor cap and rotor even though both looked just fine. Still cranks but won't turn over. I decided I must have done something wrong so I dug back in to make sure the rotor was pushed down all the way, made sure the wires to the cap were connected and in the right spots. They were. Put it all back together and tried to start it. BOOM, starts right up. Shut it off. Tried again, fired right up. So I started to put the passenger side 'hood' back on. Then it started raining so I decided to pull it into the garage and finish up. Wouldn't start. Same thing, cranks but won't fire up. Put a tester between a plug and the distributor and had intermittent spark but not consistent enought to start up.

Determind to fix this myself, I dove back into the forum. Decided it was the ignition coil. Had a hell of a time getting the old OEM one off; the two screws closest to the motor were trouble. But finally I got it off and installed a NAPA replacement that looked exactly like the OEM one. Tried to start it. Same thing.

I have tested all of my fusible links, fuses, and plan on checking the ground wire tomorrow. I still need to test the ignitor as I have read that could be the problem as well. My LE is already racking up a shop bill and I am still hopeful I can fix this myself. At this point I feel like I either have a short somewhere, a bad distributor, or a bad ignitor. Any thoughts?

[timsrv]

Check codes to see if any are stored. This might not help but it's easy to do & might provide some clues. Next I'd check the fuel system by jumping the "fuel pump check connector" & verify the sound of fuel circulating through the system. As before, it may not help but it's easy to do and will rule out the fuel system.

components that can cause no or intermittent spark from most likely to least likely:

1. Ignition coil (okay so you can rule this out now)
2. Igniter
3. Pick-up coil (inside distributor)
4. ECU

[JFratzke]

Tested fuel system using connector test--fuel pump runs fine. Checked for stored codes got 11 and 6. Need to drag it inside to do anything else (It's 19 degrees out today). Thanks for your help

[timsrv]

Code 11 is usually associated with a bad or disconnected TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) & although this should be addressed at some point, it's not likely associated with your current problem. Code 6 means the ECU isn't getting an RPM/ignition signal (no spark). So based on what you've done so far this should limit the fault to 3 possibilities..........igniter (most likely), pick-up coil, or ECU.

[timsrv]

Here's a couple igniters on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-89-TOYOTA...07d818&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-89-TOYOTA...05ed70&vxp=mtr

The 2nd one is cheaper but looks like they hacked the wire that goes to the distributor. I usually snatch these from vans I find at the pick-n-pulls, and the average price I get is $15 - $20. It's been a while though and seems the price changes depending on what yard & the employee that checks me out. Tim

[JFratzke]

Thanks again Tim...Ordered the first one for $66 shipped. I have had our parts department price these for me before and after their markup they usually want over $100. Even if it ends up being something else its probably a good idea to have one of these sitting around. Thanks again for your help....still committed to fixing this one on my own. It was about time that I learned some basic diagnostic procedures for my vans!

[gushaman]

check the wiring coming out of the distributor. it may have a loose connection or a short near the green plugs. the wiring sometimes gets moved around for other repairs. one of those should be the tach signal from distr. to ecu

[JFratzke]

Installed new igniter this morning and it started up. Drove it around and successfully stopped it and started it several consecutive times so it seems that was the problem. Thanks for the help! Going to save the old one and test it along with the wiring. Don't want to throw away a good igniter with a bad wire.

Now about that code 11.......

Actually not going to worry about that just yet. I am going to drive it while the lifter job on my LE is underway.

[timsrv]

That's good. Mystery solved . Here's a thread where cleaning the throttle body and replacing the TPS are talked about http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...-Throttle-Body. You will need to remove the throttle body to replace the TPS, so it just makes sense to do everything outlined in that thread. If you only want to replace the TPS, just skip to the bottom and follow the procedure outlined for adjusting the new one. I made a video that should help. Tim

[jordyhamilton]

Looking at your list of four tim and trying to track down a distributer. New one is 450...coil is 30... if its internal this is no good. Wondering how easy it is to change or whether complete unit is a better call? Any thoughts. I know you mention changing in used units. Do you ever replace a coil alone? Thanks.

[timsrv]

Everybody has their own way of doing things. Me? I'm cheap, so I snag used parts when I can get a deal on them (and when I don't need them). While I have a van opened up and I'm tinkering on it, I'll grab my used parts that are of "unknown condition" and install long enough to verify they work. If something doesn't work I toss it (but that hardly ever happens). The rest get put in a box with other similar used parts. When I need them I know where they are & I know they work. When it comes to my cherry van, I usually will purchase new OEM Toyota for most parts (assuming they are available), but my other vans usually get the used stuff. If you watch for this stuff, and pick it up when it's cheap, the below list is not an unreasonable expectation (I get used stuff on eBay and the local Pick-N-Pull).

1. Ignition coil (I'll usually pick by purchasing complete distributors........used of course) Entire unit $20 - $30
2. Igniter (used from local salvage yards $10 - $25). These are getting harder to find & the yards are starting to ask too much. Last couple I found at the yard I left on the counter because they wanted $35+. When eBay has these they usually ask between $80 - $120.
3. Pick-up coil (inside distributor) (refer to #1)
4. ECU (eBay usually $20 - $50. The salvage yards want way too much). Last time I asked at the yard they said $100 , but it's been a while since I purchased one.

[jordyhamilton]

Thanks Tim. Yeah I am on the hunt for a used complete distributor here in Vancouver, Canada but have not had any luck yet. My 86 is running but I have been having some issues on cold wet mornings or when the van has been sitting for a while. Just got back from a two week Christmas trip and couldn't get it to fire. A couple pops but nothing I could work with. Drained the battery and towed to a shop down the street and they said after charging no spark but then suddenly a rough start and then strong running when warm. They had previously done a full tune up and the throttle body hose in trying to fix it. Thought fuel pump but its got fuel. Its fired right up the last two mornings. It was temperamental a couple times over the summer too on really hot days with longer trips. Would fire up but then sounded like only a couple cylinders firing and I would have to ease it up out of first. But then fine for a few weeks. Anyway, in all the reading I think the it sounds like the distributer and or the coil and I was thinking maybe to change the coil as a first cheap attempt best. Do you need to take the whole distributer assembly out to change the coil? Thanks again for the response.

[timsrv]

I've always pulled the distributor to change the coil, but others here have reported it can be done with the distributor installed. Evidently there's one screw that can be a bugger, but it can be done. Personally I'd rather pull it, then hold it in the vice while changing a coil. Of course if you pull the distributor, then you'll need to time it, but if you have a timing light it isn't that bad. Tim

[I am Ironvan]

..Im having similar problems with my 85. Im pretty sure its the coil. Ive heard of discharging it prior to removal to avoid a shock, but not sure how to do this. :/