TV - Have you cleaned the screen in the reservoir?
What Tim says is true but if the screen is plugged, it will also cause the reservoir to be soaked.
I get the impression that you have linked the leak to the wet reservoir.
I have only seen 2 conditions where the cap has leaked while having an intact seal, when the screen is plugged or when the system is severely overfull.
Just to clarify, the hose you are referring too is NOT the return hose but the suction hose to the pump. When you moved the hose to check the oil it likely cracked as you've already figured out. The crack in the hose would allow the pump to suck more air rather then fluid from the reservoir causing the fluid to be bubbly from the air now being introduced. Meanwhile, all the fluid in the system got returned to the reservoir from the pressure of the pump(Whether fluid or air pressure or likely in your case both.)pushing through the system where, combined with the increased volume of the bubbles, would have caused your overflow. Also, like Tim said, make sure you use the proper oil rated hose as transmission fluid in particular will quickly degrade coolant hose.
Yup... you're right on... of course, it is a suction hose !!! that explains the air !! (I called it a "return hose" simply because I was too lazy to think it through) . The Toyota molded hose is about $107.00 and it is in the plan to buy it within 6-12 months; i just bought the 2 molded PCV + valve cover hoses from Toyota and they fit great, so, once I recover financially from that, I'll get the steering hose... I should be fine till then..
the rubber seal in the cap of the reservoir won't hold any real pressure... its basically there to stop "splash" from oozing out...
The copper pipe will work for now, and it would have been permanent on my old '86, but, this '87 is too nice to leave like that
Also, Tim would have no respect for my van if I left it that way permanently.
(ps- the screen is basically clean)
Two months ago, I replaced some very worn original front suspension parts, 30+ years old on a 87 2wd Van, the front was super loose. The new inner/outer tie rods, upper/lower ball joints, 2 new upper a-arms, 1 new lower, and a new bushing in the other lower arm. New shocks last year too. Well-----the ride and change was amazingly good, no noises, super tight feel. Now, the rack and pinion has literally exploded out both ends, the inner tie rods boots are filled with fluid and leaking out profusely. I ordered a rebuilt rack and pulled the power steering belt until it comes in, my van is my DD. My theory, all new parts and the resulting firmness was more than the old rack could handle! The 1/4" of movement in every direction of the old parts kept the old rack seals alive, new parts literally killed it!
89 TV. 152k
HELP!
OK, so I opened up the PS reservoir and took a flat head and scrapped the gunk from the screen after my PS was making increasingly more and more noise. The last time this was done it helped settle the noise tremendously. So I scraped out a bunch of gunk, checked my levels and took it for a drive. It seemed to be better.
Then the following morning I started er up and Noise-City! Whiny cranky noises, worse than before. I shut it down, opened the hatch and there was fluid everywhere. I cleaned it up and discovered the lid seemed to not be sealed if I had turned it all the way CC and had leaked out the top. So I backed it off a little bit to where it felt the most snug. This was after I topped off the level with fluid (DEX III Equivalent) again. Started it up and it seemed better. Drove to work where it sat for about 12 hours. Started it up that night and it was fine.
This morning, I started it up and again it was loud and cranky, whining super bad. However this morning I did not have an opportunity so look what was going on and drove to work (was running a little late). By the time I got off the bridge and was driving through town, I realized I had pretty much lost most of my power steering. I could smell some fluid leaking and when I parked, I sure enough it was leaking.
I haven't opened it up yet. What could be going on?? I felt confident the lid was on snug and the fluid level was correct, if not on the less side of full.
Any suggestions as to whats going on? Did I clog a line when I cleared out the gunk? Did I just fry my PS pump?
Thanks in advance.
These pumps are tough/resilient, so I doubt there's any issues there. I think the problem is you "scraping" may have forced some of the particles into the screen which resulted in more thoroughly clogging it. There's really no substitute for removing and cleaning as described earlier in this thread.
Since it's a recirculating system, fluid needs to flow at equal volumes throughout the system. If the screen is plugged, returning fluid will not be able to flow to the pump at an equal rate, and will be forced out of the "vented" fill cap. If the pump cannot get enough fluid it will cavitate and make noise. The problem is exasperated when the fluid is cold because the viscosity is thicker under those conditions. You need to thoroughly clean the screen with solvent then blow it out with air. Considering the "gunk", I would also recommend draining/flushing the system and refilling with new Dexron III ATF. Good luck. Tim
Originally Posted by timsrv
Thanks Tim. If I drive it home tonight (about 10 miles - half freeway/half city) will i do any (more) damage or will I be OK?
These pumps are resilient. I had a big leak from a pressure hose once. I was lazy and drove for almost a year with no power steering. I didn't bother removing the belt & just let the pump run dry. When I finally fixed the leak and filled it up everything was good again. I continued using that pump for several more years/miles without issue
. Tim
For what it's worth, I'm more concerned with the "gunk". This makes me think the system was contaminated at some point. Perhaps somebody put synthetic and/or some non-compatible fluid in there. Gunk can be the result of incompatible fluids trying to mix.
"it's usually a good idea to listen to Tim"...
only 4 weeks after using the 5/8" hose that I had lying around, the hose was starting to fail. Clearly it was heater hose. The entire length and circumference of all the rubber was glistening; completely wet with steering fluid. It was weeping right through the entire hose. Wouldn't have been much longer for complete melt-down. Solved with NAPA Power Steering hose. Still tight and dry as a bone.
I have to admit that when I first read Tim recommending the correct type of hose, that I thought it was just a "Tim-technicality" and I would be fine for at least a year. Guess not.
Sorry to hear about that hose failing, but I can never get enough of that statement
It was pretty caked. As satisfying as it was to scrape around down in there and pull up scoop after scoop of sludgy gunk, I did begin to wonder if this was just 28 years of residual build up or if something else had happened. I guess I have a weekend project ahead of me.
Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated.
-Terry
Update on this I didn't end up taking it all apart. I let it settle for a few days and scooped out some more gunk and debris. Topped it off and it's been fine.
Thanx for posting this Tim, My van's ps pump is whinning and needs some tlc, this will really come in handy !!
I recently experienced the whiny power steering problem as well. I was on a the way home from a road trip and after reading this thread figured it would be OK if I got it home and addressed the cavitation problem. Once I arrived home the power steering wasn't working at all AND there was no longer a cavitation noise. Have you heard of or experienced this at all? I still need to take everything apart and clean the reservoir but was curious if that would be more indicative of a PS pump problem rather than a reservoir screen clog issue.
Thanks!
Without a hands in inspection its rather hard to speculate, but...
If it was whining, then it stopped making noise and you lost power assist, you likely have a leak and lost all the fluid.
Time to open the hood and take a good look around and report back with your findings
I'm about to finish this task of cleaning out the screen and I will post the results here when I'm done. I had one question in the meantime. Instead of using the rack that's brittle near the radiator to flush, can I just put the two hoses that connect to the reservoir in a bag and start the engine and drain that way? It's not a low point but it would help get more out than what's in there now.
Yes, However you deem appropriate for your van. I have the good fortune to live in a place that does not salt the roads, so removal of a rack fitting is typically easy for me. If yours is rusted, you don't have the proper flare wrenches, and/or there's any other reason you don't want to chance damaging, then do whatever you see fit. It's not that important how you remove the old fluid, it's just good to flush and replace every few hundred thousand miles. IMO, if it's dirty enough to clog the screen, then it's worth flushing. Tim
Wahoo!
So I flushed the system using the hoses that connect to the reservoir. I'm not sure if I was able to get everything out but I got more out than just cleaning the reservoir. It was messy and if I were to do it again, I would have used a bottle on both the lines. The noise is gone! And boy was that noise loud before I did the cleaning, flush and refill. Really excited how much of a difference this made to the steering and noise and how easy this was to do.
I started using a flat head on the screen, don't do that! I quickly stopped and switched to an electric toothbrush, it worked really well.
Here is a picture before:
And After:
Wow!!! Look s like getting a SonicCare for the tool box is in order!
Nice job and thank you for posting the before and after photos!
JDM
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