1987 Hiace 4Y Engine - Rough Idling / hard to start / Excessive vacuum on fuel tank

[Hiaceonice]

Hi and thank you for letting me be part of the forum:-)
Here is a short introduction of me and my van.

Im 40 years old, I work with furniture and I am living in Norway. I have recently bought a 1987 4WD Hi-Ace Combi Wagon with a 4Y Engine.
The van is 100% Stock and has only 22.000 km on the meter. (It used to be a fire truck out of a remote village in Norway)

Although almost unused, I am experiencing some hard starting ( must crank 2-3 times) and I have an uneven idling. Plus I have an excessive amount of vacuum on the tank when I open the lid. I am currently starting on replacing all the vacuum lines as they are 30 years old, but does anyone know if these issues can be caused by something else? like a faulty Charcoal Canister? Any other vacuum parts that fail over time?
I can't even find the Charcoal Canister so if anyone can post an image of it, it would help out a lot.

Any suggestions or tips on how to solve or what to check for are greatly appreciated!




In addition, Also I need the engine repair manual for the 4Y engine if anyone has a digital copy. (The link I found on this forum did not work for me)

Thanks!

Martin

[Burntboot]

Welcome

On North American spec 4Y, the charcoal canister is mounted behind/below the air filter housing.

Mine was rusted / perforated on the topside and it did cause issues but not related to hard starting.
If the van isn't rusty, that wouldn't be my first suspect.

Probably best to start with checking for stored codes before digging too deep, might help lead the process.
Same time, look around for a factory manual, they are an invaluable tool.

Hard starting can be caused by a multitude of issues and its important to know what the cause before changing parts and possibly confusing matters or consuming resources that will be needed elsewhere.

When hard to start, is the starter not engaging, but starts cranking the engine after a few tries or is the engine cranking fine but not firing.
Does the hard start only happen after sitting overnight/several days or after having driven a short/long time, each scenario reflects a different potential cause.

Do you ever smell raw fuel around the van? However slight ?
Checking for stored codes is always the first place to start, unless there is a potential fuel leak, those take precedence over all other matters.
BB

[Hiaceonice]

Thank you for the tips!

I have since yesterday tried to locate the Engine Service Connector to check Code failures without any luck finding it. I opened the dash, searched all around the fusebox and solenoids and all round the engine bay and battery, air vent etc without finding it. Does anyone know if a 1987 Hiace even has one? and how it looks? I have tried to google it for for some time now without any result According to this thread, a 1987 The Van Wagon has it, but maybe not the Hiace or? http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/c...vice-Connector

The starter is engaging and "firing" three four five times before the engine starts. And only after I depress the gas pedal once or twice. When it fires it needs some more pedaling to get up or it dies. When started it needs a few seconds to idle smooth. It is most apparent when the car has been sitting more than 20 mins and it gets a little bit worse when parked in a hill on an angle.

The uneven idling when standing still gets worse when the engine is hot. It is like it drops a beat every 4 or 5 seconds.

Cant say I can smell fuel, but nowadays I drive with the window mostly open.

Found the charcoal cannister. It was located in a box under the passenger seat along with the fuel filter. Can i fail check it somehow?

Any ideas?

[Hiaceonice]

Update. I Still have not found the OBD plug. According to a Toyota technician here in town, the Hiace did not have a OBD connector until 1990 on the MK4. But, I found out that my rotor and distributor was a bit corroded. I tried to sand them down a bit with fine paper, and like magic now the van starts and idles much better. The parts look worn so I have ordered new. Now my only issue is excessive vacuum on the tank. Does anyone know what I can try to fix that?

[Burntboot]

We never had that model over here which only makes things harder.
If it doesn't have a test port that makes me wonder if its fuel injected or carb'd
If the later then it won't have a port and you're into old school diagnostics.

Over here, we didn't get monitored raw fuel emissions till the mid '90's with the advent of OBDII, that changed everything in the way the evaporative systems function.
But in the olden days.... things were pretty simple, even our FI TV's are still a simple system.
Essentially vapours are collected by the canister and sucked into the engine under high vacuum conditions.
None of ours have electrics in the purge system.

Our manual has test procedures for the check valves in the canister and while it likely doesn't apply, of note is the last line of the chart

"high vacuum in tank ------ valve 1 - n/a , valve 2 - closed, valve 3 - open, check valve in cap - open (air is led into the tank)"

Maybe just try a new gas cap that is spec'd for the vehicle (vented).
Ours have a check valve in the cap that allows the system to suck air into the tank when vacuum is sufficient, but doesn't allow vapours (and more importantly liquid) to escape past the cap.

[VanCo]

The 4Y (carburated) and 4YEC (fuel injected) have completely different fuel delivery, ignition, and EVAP systems. Judging by your distributor picture you do have a 4Y. Since the US vans got 3YEC, and 4YEC engines I assume that not many of us know much about the 4Y. That will limit first hand knowledge.

A lot of people refer to the 4YEC as simply 4Y. This can cause confusion sometimes.

You may want to try researching other vehicles that had 4Y's. I don't think any US vehicles (other than forklifts) ever got 4Y's. I believe some Hilux's in South Affrica had 4Y engines.

[Hiaceonice]

Thanks for the insight. Thats good to know. I also know that the Hilux / Taro was delivered with a 4Y in some parts of Asia plus in Australia. And both the Hilux and Hiace in South Africa. The engine was originally designed for the Toyota Crown Taxis and for Toyota Forklifts, but apparently the forklifts changed to the LPG compatible 4YE.