1992 Previa Starting and Electrical Problem

[Unclegrumpy]

My 1992 2wd Previa (135K) recently started to have an intermitted starting problem. Very occasionally, you would get either nothing or just a click, similar to what you get with a dead or very low battery, but then it would start and be fine for a while. I checked, it was not the battery, and began to think maybe I might eventually need a starter.

This weekend...of course while I was out of town...my wife went to drive the van...but when she went out it would not start...a click again. After several tries the same...then 10 minutes later it moaned and labored, but started. She went inside leaving it running to warm up, but came out 5 to 10 minutes later to find it stalled. Worse yet, there was a very strong electrical/metallic burning smell all around the driver's door and inside. She called me to discuss the problem, and after hearing about the smoking, I had her disconnect the battery.

Now two days later, I am home and looking at the van searching for the problem. I wish the burning smell was fresher, but with the seat tipped up and access panel open, it seems to be coming from the area around the starter, which makes sense given the previous intermitted starting issue, and then the smell above and around the driver's door. From underneath, I can't see any obvious cooked wires, but am wondering if the starter may have melted down inside. It is a Toyota remanufactured starter...about 10+ years old. It is very clean under the van...and the starter looks nearly new from the outside...I know that cleanliness does not mean anything, but it is not covered with oil or dirt.

Now in addition to that, when I hooked the battery back up to check a few things, I am not getting any power to anything. I checked the fuseable link box, and the fuses are good, and the connections clean. The battery is only a couple of years old, and cable ends and posts are clean as well. I did get a little spark when I hooked up the battery cable...that is not normal...but it was not a particularly big spark.

This is my second Previa, and before that I had two of the 1980's Toyota vans. I know the earlier vans have a hidden fusable link, and I am wondering if the Previa has something I am missing. Also wondering if the starter totally melted down inside if that could be shorting the entire system out.

Thanks for the help in getting this old girl back on the road!

[celeron55]

I'm going to guess the brushes in the starter wore down, burned up and the solenoid contacts inside the starter permanently welded closed. Could be something else though.

I'd disconnect the starter and start checking which things or wires are getting power with the starter disconnected.

[Unclegrumpy]

Thanks!

I am going to take the starter off and open it up to see what it looks like inside. My larger concern is the total loss of electrical power...I have had starters go out before on other vehicles, but not lost all the electrics in the process.

[celeron55]

The "AM1" 50A fuse on the battery terminal main fuse block directly feeds the starter solenoid, and at the same time pretty much everything else behind other fuses. Could be that simple.

I think those main fuses have a bolt you have to remove in order to take them out. (Sometimes people break them)

[Unclegrumpy]

Thanks again.

Got the starter out, and it is fried inside. Without it in the van, I hooked the electrical system back up and things are working again, so whatever happened inside the starter is was the caused the total electrical shut down. I feel lucky that it was not something worse.

The new issue is the starter is different than what they had at my local NAPA Store. I don't always use NAPA, but thought it might be worth a shot given it was a nice day, and I might be able to get this done before it rained or snowed again. No such luck, and I may have to get one from a Toyota OEM discount place to be sure to get the correct one. Considered doing a rebuild, but the old one is a real mess inside.

[Unclegrumpy]

Got the van back on the road today. I had trouble finding the correct starter. Turns out there are two versions that can end up under one aftermarket part number. Looked at a couple of rebuilt ones...one the wrong version...from NAPA. It looked like it had a hard life and was not given much care in the rebuild.

Ended up springing for a rebuilt from Toyota ($143). It was about $14 more than the NAPA one discounted on a Toyota dealer's site. What came looked new...and most of the exterior parts clearly were. Besides that, it was the correct one. I was very pleased with what Mr. Toyota sent me.

The best thing was once installed, all of the electrical issues went away. The old one must have been shorting the system out. Felt lucky that everything was solved by just replacing the starter.

IMG_2426.jpg

[cb97alltrac]

I've only had one starter go bad on the four previas I've had. (Still have 2). It was on one of the two wheel drives so it was easy to change out. There's no way I would put a non Toyota OEM starter on. I took mine over to the local battery specialists and they put new brushes, Etc on it for$35.. It ran for another 150k miles until it was hit broadside by a guy who ran a red light.
Also, I would never swap out the original nippondenso alternator for a lifetime aftermarket alternator.
Every Previa at Pick N pulls I've seen has had the original nippondenso alternator. Guy at the battery specialist said they nippondensos are Rock Solid and always better to put new brushes, etc.on them than use them as a Core Exchange. I made that mistake on my original 1984 Toyota van and ended up putting five Aftermarket Alternators on it. Yeah they were lifetime alright but it was a pain to keep replacing them.

[Unclegrumpy]

Thanks!

Yes, this was only the second starter for me too...in two Previas and three of the older Toyota Scooby Doo vans.

I do wish I had not been so lazy. The lesson for me was once I started to get the occasional non starting clicks, I should have taken the starter off and had it looked at...or take it apart myself and put a $10 or $15 bush contact kit into it. Waiting caused mine to melt down inside. That was a first for me, I have had starters in other cars die over the years, but they just quit not smolder themselves to death.

Oh well, am really happy with all of the under the drivers seat cooking all it was was the starter.

[Jonny]

This is a short thread so I thought I might piggy back a question on here...I have starting problems which I am attributing to the starter so went to take it off the vehicle this morning. Did not get very far at all. When I turn the nut to remove the main electrical contact I can see the stud from the starter turning with the nut. This does not seem right. I only moved it about 1/8 of a turn not wanting to eff it up any more. The only thing I can think of is to get my dremel and start grinding the nut off (I will surely mess up the stud) but I thought I'd check here to see if anyone had any input. Like, will I damage the starter any more than it is already if I just reef on the nut and see what happens.?

Edit: Looking at a parts diagram it seems like the whole internal contact is quite likely to be turning with the stud, so the bigger hammer philosophy might not be such a good idea. It looks like there's just barely enough stud sticking out beyond the nut to slot it with a cutting wheel so that it can be held with a screwdriver. I'll try that when it stops snowing here.

[Jonny]

OK, after I got the terminal nut cut off and starter removed this is what the main terminal contact looked like inside...

DSCN3291.jpg

A close up....

DSCN3292.jpg

The contact patch of mine was practically gone after 230K miles and 26 yrs.
The matching one on the other side was barely worn.
The brushes were still good too... just less than 1/2 worn down based on service manual acceptable length.
I just replaced the one bad contact - $3 from an automobile electric motor repair shop - and all seems well again.

Edit. This is one of the very few areas where the Toyota service manual is lacking.... nowhere (at least in my '91 book) is there any mention of inspecting or servicing these contacts. Thank god for TVT and its wealth of info.