crank-no-start after HG replacement; first time doing a timing check and adjustment

[SpaceToaster]

I recently replaced many things on the engine; after I blew the headgasket and decided to just replace everything that was worn rather than the headgasket alone.
went in and swapped out:
-hoses
-spark plugs
-fuel injectors
-gaskets
-fuel filter
-oil filter
-oil
-valve cover
-distributor and cap

The problem Im having now is that the engine cranks but will not start:


A few mechanically inclined friends of mine tell me that the timing is off.

Ive watched a few videos on how to do this on other vehicles but if there are pages on it in the service manual they are missing (my manual is in pieces)
is there anything special I should know on this van?
or can someone give me a run down of how theyve done the process?

[timsrv]

Because it's not required to remove the distributor when replacing a head gasket, it's not likely your timing is off. If you did remove it, here are some links to posts that should help you re-align:

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...=2821#post2821

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...=2345#post2345

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...8583#post18583

If the distributor timing is good and it still doesn't start, check to make sure you have fuel pressure & check for spark. If you're lacking one or the other, then search the forum as this has also been covered. If you can't find, let me know and I'll dig up some links for you.

After you get it running you should still fine tune the timing with a timing light. Timing with a light is a bit tricky on the van as there is only a narrow line of site for doing so and it's hard to see the marks through years of grime. For this reason I will clean the front of the timing cover with brake clean or other such product and spray with compressed air. I will also usually get under the van with a paint pencil, find the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley, then clean and put paint into the notch (so it's easier to see). When you time, you will 1st need to put the ECU into the diagnostic mode (jump the CEL connector), set the RPMs, then align the crankshaft mark with the timing cover mark (12° BTDC). Here's a post that shows how the marks on the cover and the pulley:

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...2506#post12506

Good luck & have fun!

[SpaceToaster]

The reason I think it may be off is that I turned the engine manually so I could clean the pistons and then removed and replaced the distributor and spark plugs with new ones; not even thinking about it.
Thank you for your links, I will read everything before I get to work.

My main question is if I find TDC, and did knock it off; what is the correct position for the distributor to be in? and how do I adjust that?

[timsrv]

1st thing to do is find TDC of the compression stroke. Since it's a 4 stroke engine, it only fires every other rotation, so determining the compression stroke is crucial. There are different ways to do this, but I will usually use my compression tester. You put the compression tester in #1 spark plug hole, then crank the starter (short bursts) and watch for the needle to jump. When it starts to jump, stop cranking, then rotate by hand to align the crankshaft pulley mark to TDC. If I have any reason to doubt the accuracy of the crankshaft pulley mark, I put my inspection camera down into #1 spark plug hole, then gently rotate the engine by hand (back & forth) and watch piston for up/down movement. When TDC mark on pulley is aligned, piston should be at the very top. If you rotate the engine one direction, as soon as you can detect piston movement, STOP, and see how far away the TDC mark is. Then go the other direction and STOP when you see the piston begin to drop again. If the timing mark is correct, the distance of movement from each side of the TDC mark should be similar. Keep in mind this is not a super accurate way to determine pulley accuracy, but it will at least give you an idea.

If you don't have a compression tester or a camera small enough to go inside the cylinder, you can find TDC by putting your hand down by the spark plug hole (with plug out) and feel for the rush of air while cranking the engine. Crank it several revolutions until you get a feel for it and you can anticipate it. When you get the rhythm down, STOP when it starts to blow, then rotate by hand to align timing mark. You can roughly determine position of piston by sticking a screwdriver or something down the spark plug hole. Just be gentle and NEVER engage the starter with a foreign object down inside there.

Once you have aligned TDC on the compression stroke, take off the distributor cap and inspect inside and out. With a thorough visual inspection you can track the wire ports to the interior contacts. Locate the interior contact for #1 spark plug wire and make a mark (sharpie works good) on the distributor housing as to the clock position it corresponds to (BTW, never use pencil to make marks on the distributor). If the rotor is not pointing at the mark you made, then the distributor is not aligned correctly. To adjust, remove distributor mount bolt, lift the distributor, align the rotor to the mark you made, then drop it back in. Keep in mind the distributor gear is helical, so dropping it down will cause it to rotate a little. If it moves away from your mark, lift it back up and adjust as required as to align the mark when it's seated. Another thing that can mess you up is the oil pump. The flat slot on the bottom of your distributor shaft drives the oil pump. If the oil pump is not aligned it will not allow the distributor to drop all the way down -DON'T FORCE IT-. To align the pump you can either pull the distributor back out and use a long slot tip screwdriver to align the pump, or you can simply crank the engine with gravity holding the distributor in place. Just a split second crank is usually all it takes and the distributor will drop right into place. Once it's seated, put the mount bolt back and leave it loose.

This should be close enough for the engine to start. Use a timing light to fine tune. 1st you'll want to jump the CEL connector, then while observing the timing marks (with a timing light), rotate the distributor one way or another to align the marks. It's not unusual (on initial setup) to run out of travel while trying to adjust timing. This is due to distributor gear being a tooth off. If it happens to you, don't fret, just pull it back out and move it the direction needed. For this adjustment I grab the distributor in one hand and hold the rotor in my other. While gently lifting the distributor I'm gently rocking the rotor back & forth. This helps me "feel" the gear engagement. As soon as the gears disengage, stop lifting, rotate the rotor just a tiny bit in the direction you want, then set the distributor back down while "feeling" for the next cog in the gear. Once you can feel it engaging, drop the distributor into place. Making single tooth adjustments will rarely require realignment of oil pump, but if it does, simply crank the engine (like before) and you should be in business. Now you can set timing and tighten down mount bolt. Always check timing one more time after bolt is tight (to verify it didn't move). You should also check the timing again AFTER the CEL jumper is removed. Note, timing should be significantly different with CEL jumper removed as removing jumper enables your electronic advance (86 - 89 vans only). If no change is noted with CEL jumper removed then you have an advance problem (most common cause is a bad or improperly adjusted TPS). Tim

[SpaceToaster]

Thank you for your help.
Ive done everything as youve said and the same as I found without using a compression gauge; it appeared to be about 180 off.

The one thing that was boggling me is resetting the distributor; you mean this bolt at the bottom, correct?

^
When I remove this bottom bolt the distributor will rotate a few degrees but thats the only movement I can make.

[SpaceToaster]

Nevermind-
I gave it a hearty tug and the whole piece came out, was able to rotate it into place.
Will let you know what happens.

[SpaceToaster]

Well; now Im sufficiently boggled.
I set the pully to zero; removed the distributor and put it back on so it was facing #1 wire:


Still cranking but not starting.

[timsrv]

Why did you replace the distributor? If you've never had it running with the "new" one, then I would suggest putting the old one back in. At least you know for sure it can run with that one. Tim

[SpaceToaster]

My mistake; I replaced the distributor rotor, cables and cap, NOT the distributor. I am relearning many things about engines since I hadnt done any work on one in about a decade so some of my terminology is off.

To save money I bought a kit that came with the spark plugs, fuel injectors, distributor cap, rotor, fuel filter, etc.

Probably a dumb mistake on my part.

I went in there with a wooden spoon, and the notch is correct for top center, so I know that's not the issue.

Ran a spark plug checker and it says the problem is with the ignition system (distributor, coil, etc) somewhere. I know the coil is good if it worked with the old one. Maybe I bought a faulty distributor is my only guess.

What I meant was I replaced the rotor, cap, wires.
The original distributor is still in there.

[timsrv]

Terminology is important. If you hadn't said you replaced the distributor, I would have told you DO NOT REMOVE THE DISTRIBUTOR. Evidently that wasn't the problem, but now that you've messed with it you've got another variable to deal with. Did you ever check spark and fuel pressure?

[timsrv]

Further thoughts.......since your initial checks showed the distributor off by around 180°, and you hadn't previously disturbed it, I think it's safe to assume it was set correctly & you were not on the compression stroke when you "realigned" it. based on that I would recommend starting over from the beginning & set up the distributor from scratch (as outlined in my above post). If you do it right, I would expect you to find the distributor to be off ~ 180° (again). Personally, I like to make sure I'm on the compression stroke when I set distributors, but some mechanics simply align TDC without 1st verifying which stroke (50/50 chance). If it doesn't start they simply rotate the distributor 180°. In your case, since it was likely already correct, I'm thinking you have another issue you should find & rectify 1st. Check for spark and fuel pressure then report back.

Another thing to check is your igniter. It sits on top of your air filter box and has a long wire that goes to the distributor. Make sure that long wire is undamaged and that it's plugged in tightly to the distributor. I don't know if you had your igniter unplugged, but I can tell you it's a common mistake to hook up the short wires wrong. The igniter has male/female plugs that are the same style. It's possible to plug the igniter into itself & the van harness into itself (leaving the igniter isolated from the van wiring). Make sure that each short wire from the igniter is plugged into the van harness (and not into each other). Tim

[SpaceToaster]

I used a compression gauge and reset it when it jumped.

Igniter seems properly plugged in.

I broke another connector today (after I noticed it's connection was real weak and inspected it)
file upload isnt working but Ill try to find a pic.

[SpaceToaster]

update: van is running better than ever.
Turned out I had an unplugged killswitch that a previous owner installed.
I DID mess up the timing by removing the distributor but was able to correct it using the timing mark.

[timsrv]

[LallyTrek]

Hey gang, I recently picked up an 87' cargo van that wasn't getting any spark. The guy I bought it from pulled the inginotor, coil, and distributor out and was going to replace them. Then I bought it and am trying to get it back together. I was installing my new ignition coil into the distributor and realized I have one too many wires....maybe. Can anyone help me out real quick.

I'm guessing the black wire is the negative on the coil, and the brown-ish one is the positive. Where does the blue wire go? It appears the plug on the other end of it is capped off. Is that ok?

There are also two screws under the cap of the distributor that look like a ground wire or something might have once gone to them. Am I missing something there? Is there suppose to be anything running through the hole on the distributor next to the two screws??

Thanks for the help. I couldn't find a photo of a distributor with three wires like that on the forum. I saw pics of distributors that had two, but not the extra blue one like mine.

cheers!

[timsrv]

Sorry for the late reply.......been working some major overtime. The brown wire is coil +. The black goes to coil -. The blue wire and that dead end connector are not required, but since they're there, and the blue wire helps fill the hole in the rubber barrier, I just leave it alone. Hook the blue wire up to the neg side of the coil (same post as the black). That dead-end plug is held to the cap via one of the cap mount screws. It's sole purpose is an attach point for a tachometer to set RPMs during tuning. If your van doesn't have a tach in the cluster, and you want to add one, this is a good spot to hook it up to. THIS THREAD shows it being used for that. Those screws (circled in your above picture) are just there to mount the pick-up coil and nothing else attaches there. That hole in the bottom is just a drain hole (in case water gets in). Tim

[LallyTrek]

Thank you so much, Tim. That clears a lot up. I'm going to get it all together, read back through this post about setting timing, and see if she fires up!

cheers!