No Spark!

[imthedude]

Hey all van was running fine went to leave work, turned over fine but no fire eventually after after cranking awhile it fired ran like roflroflroflrofl then held an idle got her home and can't get a spark, gave her some starting fluid still no spark. Just replaced cap rotor plugs and wires still no spark. Any ideas I have crusty wire that isn't making a good ground thinking it could be the problem will try and post a pic of that. Any help is appreciated I'm a novice I know a little but not a lot. Also can't seem to figure out how to check codes?!

[imthedude]

Finally figured out how to read the code (feel kinda dumb) anyways it reads out 2 codes, number 4 something to do with my cold start connector being broke im assuming, and code 6 rpm signal, pulling the cap off now any ideas of what to look for? also how can you check to see if the ECU is working properly?

[timsrv]

Take a good look at the coil where the contact inside the cap touches it. Make sure this contact on both the cap & the coil are clean & free from damage. The problem you're describing & code 6 point to a bad coil or a bad igniter. No way to tell which one it is over the internet, but I can tell you that coil failures are much more common than igniter failures.

There is a coil test outlined in the service manual but I don't consider it reliable. According to the manual there is no test for the igniter. All they say in regard to testing is "try another igniter" . Good luck. Tim

PS: That connection in your picture is the sending unit for the temperature gauge. A bad connection here will only render your temperature gauge useless. Code 4 is an indication of a bad temp sensor for the ECU. If your ECU has a bad temp sensor it will make the van run bad, but it won't prevent spark. Regardless, this sensor is important and should be replaced if bad. Tim

[imthedude]

I feel really really dumb right now, I had my brother helping me and for the most part he knows his stuff. That being said we kinda argued when he insisted the plugs fired from the front to the back 1,2,3,4 when reading the manual that is not the case, will try that tomorrow I bet it will fire. Attaching the pick of the coil it did catch my eye looks beat up and dirty, the rotor was beat up aswell replaced it though. A couple hrs ago I thought igniter but not now haha hopefully it's just the plugs and coil

[imthedude]

Thanks for responding!

[thetoaster]

There is a coil test outlined in the service manual but I don't consider it reliable. According to the manual there is no test for the igniter. All they say in regard to testing is "try another igniter" . Good luck. Tim

Uhhm. so what's the test? In my eyes a shuddy half way reliable test is better than nothing. Not having the manual for the van I would guess that it's a resistance test for the primary and secondary coil? I'm also guessing the manual has defined resistance levels. The reason for me asking is that if you can take the coil out of the equation it makes it either the ingniter(my guess) or the ECU. In my limited knowledge of these vans you would have to be very unlucky for it to be the ECU.

EDIT: Cross posting again. lol Tonight is not my night. If the wires are crossed forget everything I saidDid I mention I type at the pre-school level?

[timsrv]

It's a resistance test, but it's rare that a good coil will test good (they almost always fall outside the limits called out in the manual). The other problem with coils is it's common for them to fail by becoming intermittent (when this happens they usually will work when cold but not when hot). Of course if that were the case it would at least start cold (so if it's a coil it's probably just dead). Spark plug wires do need to be hooked up correctly though, so this should be verified & corrected (if required). Still, that coil contact doesn't look real good, and something caused that code 6 to trigger. Sounds like you have some things to check and a temp sensor to replace. Hopefully this will resolve your issues.

In regards to ECUs, they can fail but it's rare. It wasn't until a year ago I had my 1st one fail. Van would still run, but it didn't run right. Fuel gauge was also inop. Putting another ECU in solved both issues. That van had been parked for over a decade in a humid environment, so I assume it was a corrosion issue (didn't bother opening it up).

If you're not aware, there's a copy of an 87 factory service manual available for download HERE. Enjoy Tim

[thetoaster]

Tim

I wasn't aware of that PDF manual at all. I tried to increase your rep power but I can't as of now. So a simple THANK YOU will have to do. Very rarely do I use caps in the online world. So thank you again for the wealth of knowledge you choose to share.

[imthedude]

I can get a coil for pretty cheap, figure once I get the wires back in the right order, it will fire just fine maybe even run and hopefully the coil will A) easy my mind and B) hopefully sure up the engine code. This has all really opened my eyes to all the little things I need to get fixed asap. It's been my daily driver for almost 4 yrs now and haven't had to fix much been pretty lucky I Guess. Hopefully this sures things up thanks for the feedback! And wll be getting a temp sensor soon its been broke for a year now haha That online manual is very nice I need to print it out! But I do find it pretty confusing sometimes like I said Im no expert and that books thinks I know more than I do! And really wish the manual had actual live shots of the engine with all the different parts labeled, I feel blind trying to troubleshoot this engine because I dont know even know where half the parts are.... All that aside I have picked up some great things from the manual and the forums and a lot of the stuff Tim has posted on here, Ya'll rocks!

[timsrv]

Before changing the coil I would recommend clearing codes, fixing the other known issues, then attempt to start. If it doesn't start, crank for about 10 seconds then recheck codes. If #6 comes back then I would replace the coil. The reason for this is that code could have been there for a long time. It could have even been accidentally put there by a tech cranking the engine with something disconnected or disabled. Tim

[imthedude]

Ok that makes sense just have to disconnect the negative terminal correct? That should reset it? Cant wait to get going on it.

[timsrv]

Disconnecting either battery cable will do it, but it's better to pull the EFI fuse (won't reset your clock). As long as you remove power from the ECU for 15 seconds or more the codes will reset. Tim

[imthedude]

Swapped out the coil what a pan that was with those 4 screws in the back anyways. Anyways still no spark tested the plugs and still nothing. Also tested the coil wires and the coil is getting power. Next will probably an igniter arghh they are pricey!

[thetoaster]

There's one on fleabay right now for 100 even. Maybe TIm has a spare laying around he'll cut you a deal on? I friend of mine had the exact situation your in. Van was running great. Drove back to camp one night and it started to run really rough. Power dropped to almost nothing. He parked it and in the morning it just cranked over and over. He had it towed to a garage near the national park he was staying in. The guys in the shop told him it was the ECU. They quoted him over a grand to replace it. After he got done crying he called me. I told him that the ECU very rarely fails in these things. I'd try to get a used igniter from a junk yard. He lucked out and found one close to where he was. I can't recall the exact price but it was cheap. He went to the repair shop and asked them to install it. They said no. It's not the issue and the ECU needs to be replaced. I called them and asked them to humor me. They finally agreed. After their mechanic installed it the van fired up first go.

There was two things I learned from this. The first is that these ECUs are really pretty solid. The second is never ever take your vehicle to a garage within 100 miles of a national park. lol

[imthedude]

Fleabay! haha I found another one brand new for only 450$! what a crock! Im tempted by the 100$ one but I might need to waiting with funding, ive looked at all the local pick n pulls with no luck... I'm also just a reluctant as to whether that is the complete diagnosis, back to the drawing board tomorrow.. That's a rough story about your friend, I want to take her to thee Gorge in August so I've got a lot of work to get completed quickly.. Good to know about the ECU! I've found a few of those for like 75-100 on ebay but again another 400 part otherwise

[timsrv]

That's a bummer. I don't sell parts but I have been known to let people "borrow" them. I put quotes on "borrow" because some of these have been borrowed for a very long time (years on some) with no contact from borrower . If you wish to borrow a part, all I ask is you send me another good one later when you can find one for a reasonable price. If you agree with these terms, PM me your address and I'll send you an igniter. Tim

[imthedude]

Tim is a good man! Good Karma coming your way!

[thetoaster]

Tim that offer is above and beyond. I made my post as a well intentioned joke. I had no idea that you would even consider being so generous. For that you get my van as soon as it finally dies. I'm not kidding here. When my van up and calls it quits, or I just up and quit working on it, it's yours. I'm in Northish Cali. If you'd be willing to split shipping fees to your local it's a done deal. Keep in mind that the toaster has well over 300,000 and is still running like a champ. So you might have to wait to collect this offer. But when the time comes I'd much rather have it go to you than a scrap yard. Awaiting your verbal handshake and it's a done deal.

[timsrv]

Lol, That's more generous than a simple igniter. I can't wait! Of course there's my wife to consider, I doubt free is cheap enough for her blessing on another van .

Dude, replacing the igniter isn't too bad..........especially if you already have the passenger seat & access panel removed. I did it once without removing the seat & panel, but it sucked getting the connector unclipped from the distributor & disconnecting/reconnecting it . After that I decided it's easier (and a lot less frustrating) to just start out by removing the passenger seat & access panel.

One thing to watch out for, a couple of the plugs on the igniter can be plugged into themselves, so make sure they are being plugged into the connections on the van (if you plug the igniter to itself & the van to itself, then you'll feel really stupid.......especially if it takes a long time to figure out what you did (don't ask me how I know). Tim

[imthedude]

Well folks no good news to report Replaced the igniter with the one that Tim so kindly sent me! But still nothing. Tried another coil and rotor still no fire.. Everything looks to be connected well, and I have power going to the Igniter. Also reset the computer before giving it a start. Fuel is moving fine. Testing for spark though and I don't have anything! Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated.. Im go back and tinker around arggggggh