Starting Issues...Uurrgghhh

[econonerd]

First off I want to thank everyone that is a part of this site, without it it would not be able to keep my silly little van on the road.

I've read through many different posts about intermittent starting issues, but mine seems a little different. It only seems to happen when the van is warm (after driving for a while and parking it for 30 minutes). And it only happens sometimes.

When I turn the key to start it nothing happens (no click or any other sound). I don't think its the starter contacts, maybe a problem in the ignition circuit?

I'm able to start it by leaving the key in the "ACC" and removing the trigger wire from the starter. Then taking a piece of #12 wire (bent just the right way) and jumping from the big fat cable to to the trigger terminal on the starter. Doing this it starts every time, which makes me think the starter is ok. Please help, crawling under the van to start it is no fun.

Thanks

[timsrv]

Have you read THIS ARTICLE? Sounds like it might be your ignition switch. Try adjusting the steering wheel tilt during the problem. I always leave my tilt in the highest position, and for one van it wouldn't always start until I dropped it down a notch. Good luck. Tim

[mr_josh]

When you turn the key all the way to start, do your dash lights and other cabin power (radio, etc) blank out (that is, go off)? If they do, that would be at least one indicator that the ignition switch is doing its thing. If you have access to a multimeter (or at least, a DC volt meter), crawl under the van with the starter "trigger" wire disconnected and measure the voltage on that wire while an assistant turns the key to the start position.

I had a similar issue on my van a while back. It was a combination of a weak battery and a somewhat-grimy connection between the trigger wire and the starter. I ended up pulling the starter completely (which is pretty easy) and cleaning all of the contacts, then cleaning my battery cable connections at the battery and farther down the line (particularly where the negative cable meets the frame and the engine). That bought me a little time until the battery just absolutely had to be replaced.

[econonerd]

Thanks for all the help. Sorry for not getting back to you guys sooner, I got super busy at work all of a sudden. And the weather around here has also been pretty bad for working outside (raining a lot). I have 2 vans and I'm not currently driving the Toyota because I've had to crawl under it too many times in the rain.

So...When I turn the ignition to the start position the lights do black out, so I'm guessing it's not the ignition switch. Seems like I'll have to do some circuit troubleshooting.

I was also thinking about a simple fix, bypassing everything the circuit. Running a wire from the ignition switch to the trigger switch on the starter motor. I realize this will eliminate the neutral safety switch. This is a last resort if i cant find the fault easily. Please let me know if this is a terrible idea.

Thanks!!!

[timsrv]

When it comes to this type starting issue there are things that can be hard to track down, but most of the time it's just the contacts inside the starter solenoid. Any time I see this issue the 1st thing I do is drop the starter and check those. 90% of the time changing a worn contact solves the problem and it doesn't come back. I wouldn't get too worried about all the other stuff it could be until checking the contacts. Tim

PS: Getting a solid 12V+ from a good source (like what happens when you jump the terminal) is going to create an little more magnetism and could be enough extra to allow a worn or marginal contact to engage. In studying this circuit, consider the resistance due to length/gauge wire, the multiple connections, and the ignition switch contacts. Because of that, it's not unusual (or considered bad) to see a drop (loss) of up to 2 volts here. A 3" piece of 12 ga wire will not have any loss, so in a way, bypassing like this isn't necessarily proving the problem isn't a marginal contact inside the starter (jumping like this may be masking or off-setting the issue).

[econonerd]

Hey Tim,
Thanks for the quick response. I didn't realize that it could still be the starter contacts. I thought that because I was able to jump the trigger switch that it must be something in the circuit from the ignition. I'll pull the starter as soon as I get a chance and let you know the results.

[timsrv]

Yeah, of course I don't know where the problem is, but this is a possibility. Sometimes problems result when 2 or more minor issues accumulate. Each issue by itself may not be enough cause failure, but sometimes combinations can. You can have a device designed to function down to 9 volts, but due to age/wear it only likes to do it's job at 10 or more volts. Now try powering it with a circuit that may have an allowable 2 volt drop but due to age/wear may be dropping slightly more. If the power circuit was in tip top shape the weak device would be fine. If the device was in top shape the weak circuit would be fine. Since these vans have inherently weak starter circuits, it's just a good idea to always keep your starter in tip top shape (as this is easier than tracking down other potential issues with the circuit).

Anyhow, on older equipment sometimes you can replace a marginal part and it will fix the issue. Sometimes replacing a different marginal part will have the same result. Sometimes we'll see 2 parts that will not work together will both work fine when coupled with different counterparts. I know there's lots of variables...........especially with intermittent issues. Sometimes heat and/or moisture play a part (lots & lots of variables). In these cases it just makes sense to replace cheap and easy parts of the system. On most occasions a new contact will take care of the problem, sometimes it won't. I hope it resolves your issue. Tim

PS: inspect the contact side of the plunger while you're in there. If it's bumpy, smooth it out or replace it. Here's a kit on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321300633354...84.m1497.l2649

[econonerd]

So I finally got some time to mess with the van. I was able to find a used starter in a salvage yard for $25 so I took the chance. It's from an 84 and my van is an 86, but i cross referenced with a few auto parts stores and they use the same starter. The removal and install was extremely easy, only took about 30 minutes. Now only time will tell if that solved the problem. I still have my old starter and plan on replacing the contacts and keeping it as a spare. Again I want to thank everyone on this forum for all your help.