Van started running rough? Misfiring on clyinder 3?

[MyToy]

Thanks Tim. Well I will cross that one off. We will see in the morning.
Let's see, you are in the north west right.
About 6 AM your time look to the south east. If you see a bright ball of fire, That's me.

MY

[MyToy]

Looks like the mystery has been found with the fuel.
You may all want to do this.
The van was stored for 25 years. The owner was very careful when storing.
Loading up oil and fluids. Draining fuel tank, cleaning and then preserving the inside with some kind of preservative product. He was an engineer for Pratt and Whitney .
All fuel lines were drain and blown out with compressor.

After engine rebuild 6 months ago cylinder 3 went bad.

They said inject 3 bad. Replaced all injectors. Ran for 15 minutes and went bad again. Only this time cylinder was always wet (fuel). After looking at everything and testing everything include all the suggestions here, there was no conclusion. Then when he took the injectors out for the 4th time he saw this. The one half way covered is#4 and the one fully covered is #3.
Rust city. From where???? New filter installed after engine rebuild. Why only 3 and 4?
Turns out that the fuel pressure regulator is positioned just in front of injector feeding pipe and filter. Took regulator out and it was dirty with rust. Cut it in half and it all just poured out. This was the one area that did not get drained or blown. The rust went into the pipe an hits 4 first then 3. # three was so loaded with rust it stayed open causing it to be wet.
4 still got some but not enough to screw things up. 1 and 2 had none. I had a new regulator. It is all being finished today after they re-blew the lines clean again with the 4th intake manifold gasket.

Should pick up by tomorrow.
I will tell all of you how it runs when I get it.

[timsrv]

Yes, your pics (above) are a very familiar sight to me. Diagnosing was a bit strange/troublesome, but without hands-on things can be hard to figure out. For some reason it's always #3 that gets plugged up 1st. For you (or anyone with this problem) I would highly recommend replacing the factory fuel filter with one like I put on. It's been covered in detail HERE. FWIW, with the factory filter mine was clogging #3 injector every 5k miles. After the filter mod I installed a pressure gauge to verify pressure/flow and I thought it would give me an indication of when the filter was beginning to clog. With the new filter, pressure remained constant and van ran good for 50k miles. Unfortunately #3 injector did eventually clog again (@50k miles), but considering it made it 10X longer, I considered it a success.

I think it's also possible I could have avoided (or at least prolonged) this issue had I changed filter elements on a more regular basis. Since the last episode I've begun replacing that filter element every 10k miles, but it's only been about 15k miles since then, so it will be at least 2 years before I hit the 50k mark again. Good luck. Tim

PS: As you can see in that thread (linked to previously in this post) the tank was cleaned thoroughly. The 1st clogging after that cleaning I attributed to rogue particles left over in the tank. After the next 3 episodes I started thinking there to be a hard caked-on residue inside my fuel lines. Each few hundred miles of constant flow likely dissolves and releases more particles into the system. On mine there is still ~3 feet of old steel line after the filter, and that could account for the last clogging of #3. Eventually I'm hoping this will clear itself up, but so far it's still been an issue (although much less after the filter mod). Tim

[MyToy]

Thanks Tim:

Why not just stick another glass filter in place. I use that on my plane. It allows me to see the if any dirt or rust in in the fuel line. This one is very critical since 99.5% of all airplane crashes are due to fuel.
Each time in use it gets purged so it never has a molecule of dirt in it. But the glass filter really does a nice job.
I think I may just stick that in line as a safety getting that inject out is a SoB.

MT

[timsrv]

Thanks Tim:

Why not just stick another glass filter in place.

If you can find one that's rated @ ~100 psi, then that could work. Our fuel systems are regulated to ~ 40 psi, but the pump is capable of much more. If the fuel pressure regulator fails, it's conceivable pressure could approach 100 psi, so I'd want my filter housing to be rated for at least this much. The filter system I'm using is rated for 200 psi. Tim

[MyToy]

Well Merry Christmas to all.

The Van has been picked up and is at least running. After 38 hours of labor and $780 in parts it runs on all 4. Started it up and the entire drivers seat shook so much it knocked the piss out of me (literately). I was so frustrated I just could not leave it there another month. Bunch of clowns. It seems to have all the power back, it is just the loud rush noise and vibration when given gas. I looked at it and it looks like it s a major exhaust lead under the driver seat. How could anyone return a vehicle to service like this?
Then there is the transmission. It is now jumping in and out of gears with throttle changes. Even when in over at 40mph and up. Then there is the idle that seems to gain as much as 500 rpm when at full operating temp. So still things to do that I will do myself. I will tap into the appropriate threads on these other subjects. At least it is home and will be given TLC.

Thanks to all

MT

[timsrv]

Well I hope they didn't actually charge you for all that labor. FYI, I'm a technician by trade and run a repair business. If/when something throws me for a loop (like this obviously did them), after all is said and done I calculate how much the job should have been (based on hindsight). Since everything was new from the recent rebuild, I would probably have charged 6 hrs (and ate the rest). I consider losses like that to be incentive to become a better tech. If unnecessary parts were put on, if it's too labor intensive to retrieve them, I eat those too. It hurts, but IMO stupidity is supposed to hurt.

FWIW, Injector problems are pretty basic. Since your van had a recent rebuild, a seasoned tech with hands on should have been able to figure it out without lavish tests like checking timing on each cylinder (that's pretty much hard wired into these). But, because the van is odd, for a decent ASE tech not familiar with the van layout, I'd be generous and give them as much as 10 hrs. If they messed up other things during the very lengthy & unnecessary "troubleshooting", then I'd be livid. Tim

[MyToy]

Thanks Tim:
Well no I have not paid them yet. The last time I went to pick it up I was so upset since it took them 4 weeks to put the injectors I I told them I would pay them the following week to give me drive time. They agreed and I never made it out of the lot. Now another 5 weeks have past and this is what I got. He told me to pay him what I thought was reasonable. Hmmm. Don't push me.

I went under neath to see if I could find this horrible noise and I found one fitting on the exhaust fitting that was leaking air. I could put my fingers around it and feel the the leak. But I think the noise is so bad it may be more. Transmission is also leaking now. Had them change the pan gasket and now a leak, not sure where yet.
And then there is the jumping in and out of gear deal.

So I will deal with all this. The van did not deserve such bad treatment. Here is a pic. I am building a show for the restoration that I will share when done.

Merry Christmas to all.