Starter problems

[psychedelicode]

Chapter #2 in the Previa chronicles...
This little issue had been going on for as long as I have known this van, >5yrs. (however it has not proved to be a nuisance)The starter sometimes needs a few taps of the key before it actually decides to engage (only sometimes). It was not an issue for the last 2 years but this winter has been terribly cold up here in Michigan. I went out to the Previa this morn' and only heard click, click then that dreadful rapid click where your dash goes nuts.
I pull out my trusty charger and put it on 100amp boost mode and it barely turns the starter...to no avail. My battery is an autozone gold (a warranty replacement for the one I purchased not 6months ago) that is just a month old and a class 65 meant for diesel trucks@850cca! to boot.( i actually prefer the walmart maxx batteries as they are made right here by Johnson Controls here in Holland, Michigan, used them for years without issues in boats atvs my schoolbus and all the cars i work on for friends, GREAT BATTERIES! (I didn't have a choice of what battery to put in the Previa at that time.))
Long story short, I put it on fast charge 6a and it starts right up after just 60 seconds. About a block later I hear this noise...oh man, my starter is still spinning. i pull over safely in a parking lot and turn off the key, the van is still trying to start itself and the ignition is in the locked position with the key removed. I grab my 8mm and a ratchet and disconnect the battery cables. guess what? Starter still spinnin'. By this point i'm happy that I have a good toolkit behind the rear seats. I reconnect the battery and rev it like hell, the starter disengages and all is normal but leaving me with worries.
I take it directly back home and put it on the battery toaster. Its reading 11.2vdc, hmm, i wonder...guess ill be driving the company truck today (2008 v6 2wd F-150 POS in the snow around here.
Get home from work and charger says 16v on the battery. I disconnect it before the charge cycle completes at 16v (my charger is a smart charger. it runs the voltage way up then does a bunch of load tests until it is at 14.4vdc (but really it shows 12.6 at the battery with the charger disconnected.)).
Have not had an issue with starting for 5 or 6 cold starts this eve but we will see when its 0 degrees in the morning.
Any ideas as to what to pursue?

[timsrv]

the van is still trying to start itself and the ignition is in the locked position with the key removed. I grab my 8mm and a ratchet and disconnect the battery cables. guess what? Starter still spinnin'. By this point i'm happy that I have a good toolkit behind the rear seats. I reconnect the battery and rev it like hell..........

If the ignition switch is off, in the locked position, key out and the starter is cranking the engine, then it's a stuck solenoid. This isn't too terribly unusual. You will likely need new starter contacts and probably a new plunger. Here's the parts you'll need: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321300633354...84.m1497.l2648. It's not a tough job and will likely fix the other nuisance issue (needing a few taps before starting).

Unless you have another battery hooked up someplace, the cranking with the battery disconnected makes no sense (impossible actually.......unless you've discovered perpetual motion). If by chance the Previa was still running when the battery was disconnected, then it's easily explained. With a stuck solenoid & engine running your alternator will easily produce enough current to keep things engaged.

Another thing that happens to Previa starters is the starter drive sometimes fails to disengage after the van starts (this is particularly true in cold conditions). When this happens the starter isn't actually spinning the engine, the engine is spinning the starter drive.........and this makes a rumbling noise. This typically only happens for a few seconds but I suppose it's possible for it to happen longer. Based on what you said, you're starter may have both of these issues. Here's a link to an article on van starters. I realize your rig is a Previa, and there are some differences, but in principal it's all the same.

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/c...witch-question.

You made a statement in the beginning about dash going nuts & rapid clicking. Based on that I would also suggest checking the condition of your fusible link box (where positive cable hooks up to battery). Here's a link to a thread that shows what to look for: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...-Previa-LE-AWD

[psychedelicode]

Thanks, timsrv. I am going to order that rebuild kit. So far I have not had an issue today with the starter. As far as the clicking, I will check out the underhood fusebox. I had to repair it two years ago so I would not doubt if it has failed again. lucky for me there are 4 previas in the local lkq picknpull. Ki gotta get some doors and a few other parts anyway. Two are supercharged and I want to get the superchargers and intercoolers off of them.

[TheMAN]

it still sounds like the starter is going bad... pulling too many amps and a bad solenoid
replace the starter and be done with it... you can get the canadian "cold spec" starter which will start up the van just fine even in the coldest sub zero temperatures

how did you get a group 65 battery to fit? it's larger than the battery tray! The biggest battery you can fit in the van is the canadian spec group 24F, which is 2" shorter and gives just the same number of CCAs!

[psychedelicode]

Indeed the 65 is larger than the battery tray but it still fits in the bay if you relocate the coolant overflow tank (I'm using a bag style one off a jeep) and unbolt the underhood fuse box (mine is just sitting next to the battery unbolted).
I have looked into the canadian spec starter. I can only find it through the stealer and it's $340. There are none in the country. I have been looking for interchange but I think I'm going to try the kit first. If it does not solve my issues than I may order a new starter or pull one off of the Previas in the local yard.

[TheMAN]

I was able to order a reman cold spec starter from my parts store years ago when I had to replace it... no reason why you can't get it... no reason why it's $340 from the dealer... you can buy reman starters from the dealer
there's always rock auto too! can't find it locally? order online! that's part of the wonders of modern technology!

the coolant tank isn't just an overflow tank... it is a surge tank or air separator tank... it is pressurized and you must use the factory one to ensure proper cooling system functionality

[BudhagRizzo]

Okay, new problem with my '91 Previa --

When trying to start the van, it sounds like the solenoid is engaging (clicking sound) but the starter is not cranking. It sounds like a classic bad starter problem, but I was just wondering if the problem could lie elsewhere, perhaps? The battery seems strong; all the dash lights come on. Could the problem lie in that fuse box relay at the positive battery terminal? I'd hate to replace the starter only to find out it's not the actual problem. BTW, this is an LE w/ automatic trans. Thanks!

[timsrv]

If it's clicking then it's most likely the contacts inside the starter. These are the most common problem on Toyota starters and a lot cheaper than replacing the entire starter. Here's a thread that shows the same issue on a VanWagon: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/c...witch-question. The Previa starters are slightly different, but the basic design is the same, so the same rules apply. Here's a picture inside the solenoid area of a Previa starter:



You may want to just buy one of THESE on eBay and install in your old starter (instead of replacing the entire thing). Tim

[BudhagRizzo]

Hey, thanks Tim! This totally helps me out, 10-fold! Knowing what to expect is VERY important to me because I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to auto mechanics.