overheating, looking for input

[User1]

OK so I thought I might have had abit of the lady luck happening when I flushed my cooling system and put in some new coolant, but that wasn't the case. I'm still overheating. I'm not even 100% positive I did the flushing correct. When I did do the flushing, I was abit surprised at how little coolant and water went back in. You can kinda follow my path on this at this thread, http://www.toyotavanpeople.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9169&hilit=radiator I'm thinking I should have the radiator recored. I've never had this done on any cars I've had. Being that I'm in SoCal the only really close wilderness is the dessert. Also looking at eventually hitting the road. Would be a dream for me to head as far north as the road would take me. Hmmmmmm...... Deadhorse, AL?

So anyways, I need to start looking at making this thing bullet-proof. Any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated.

[timsrv]

Have you replaced your thermostat yet? If you're overheating replacing that with a genuine Toyota t-stat is the 1st thing you should do. There are other possibilities, but the t-stat is the most common and easiest to remedy issue (arguably).

How long does it take to overheat? If it's slow and gradual it could be an efficiency issue with one or more components. If within the 1st 5-10 minutes it could be something like a trapped air bubble in the system. Are there any leaks? Here's a thread that goes into more detail on troubleshooting: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?578-diagnosing-a-headgasket-failure.

Sorry about the title of that thread, I'm not suggesting it's your HG, but most of the info within may be helpful to your situation. Tim

[User1]

Have you replaced your thermostat yet? If you're overheating replacing that with a genuine Toyota t-stat is the 1st thing you should do. There are other possibilities, but the t-stat is the most common and easiest to remedy issue (arguably).

How long does it take to overheat? If it's slow and gradual it could be an efficiency issue with one or more components. If within the 1st 5-10 minutes it could be something like a trapped air bubble in the system. Are there any leaks? Here's a thread that goes into more detail on troubleshooting: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?578-diagnosing-a-headgasket-failure.

Sorry about the title of that thread, I'm not suggesting it's your HG, but most of the info within may be helpful to your situation. Tim


Haven't replaced the thermostat yet. I'll start looking into getting one. Seems like it's working fine but it will be replaced eventually and is needed to eliminate the possibly.

The van takes about 10 miles or less to overheat at 60 mph on the freeway.* It overheated yesterday and the outdoor temp was about 75 degrees. The gauge temp showed that it was climbing slowly through the whole 10 miles. Started getting nervous when it went over the 1/2 mark. No coolant leaks noted. I had to stop several times limping home and each time I looked for evidence of coolant on the ground. The only time it started to boil over was when I got home. It was doing it just a little.

I read the whole thread and can look at the suggested spots. Can do the pressure test if recommended too. One thing nice about where I live is that Napa is right across the street and Autozone is one block down the street and O'Reilly less than a mile away.

*Been meaning to ask about this. It doesn't seem like the van gets to OD. I can hear it shifting from 1 to 2 to 3, but no 4. At the cruising speed of 60 mph, my rpms is over 3500. At 3500 rpm my cruising speed is about 57-58 mph. I never reached OD right? And my OD button is working. When pressed, it shows that OD is turned off. Also the tires are 205/75/14.

[timsrv]

Okay, that doesn't sound like an air bubble or a leak. Probably not a t-stat either, but I'd still change it as "routine maintenance"..........who knows, maybe you'll get lucky. This sounds more like a problem with the radiator or fan clutch. Make sure your fan shroud is installed correctly and the lower piece is there. While you're underneath, check the front of the radiator to make sure it's clear of debris. Radiators can also get plugged up on the inside and flushing doesn't always help. Does your fan clutch roar when it's cold? A working fan clutch will roar for the 1st 3 or 4 revs when cold, but will then quiet down when it starts slipping. Sometimes they will pass the "cold roar test" but have a stuck thermostat. There is a bimetal coil on the front of the fan clutch and it's job is to activate the fan clutch when it gets hot. Sometimes that fails and/or the shaft it turns gets stuck. If you take the shroud off you can test it like I show in this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?693-An-unorthodox-method-for-testing-the-clutch-fan . Have fun :wnk:. Tim

PS: If it's starting to overheat, you can turn on the heat inside the van to help your engine dissipate heat. If that keeps it under control that's a good indication it's a plugged radiator or an air-flow problem. Could still be a t'stat though. Keep in mind that the engine thermostat does not affect flow through the heater cores (heater system bypasses the engine thermostat).

[User1]

I forgot to mention the fan. I've read a few threads that mention how the fan is suppose to act. I'm pretty sure it is working correctly while parked. I'll take a look at the shroud and do the fan test tomorrow. I just got out of the shower and no way am I getting out there now. :LOL2:

Next time I'm driving it and it overheats, I'll try the inside heater trick. I have yet to find the heater core(s). I just learned that one is behind the passenger wheel.

What's the word on the OD issue? Can start another thread if wanted.

Thanks Tim.

[timsrv]

Before starting new threads please search and post in one that deals with the subject :). If none exist, then by all means start a new one. Here's a good one. Hope this helps: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?330-Overdrive-issues

[User1]

Okay, that doesn't sound like an air bubble or a leak. Probably not a t-stat either, but I'd still change it as "routine maintenance"..........who knows, maybe you'll get lucky. This sounds more like a problem with the radiator or fan clutch. Make sure your fan shroud is installed correctly and the lower piece is there. While you're underneath, check the front of the radiator to make sure it's clear of debris. Radiators can also get plugged up on the inside and flushing doesn't always help. Does your fan clutch roar when it's cold? A working fan clutch will roar for the 1st 3 or 4 revs when cold, but will then quiet down when it starts slipping. Sometimes they will pass the "cold roar test" but have a stuck thermostat. There is a bimetal coil on the front of the fan clutch and it's job is to activate the fan clutch when it gets hot. Sometimes that fails and/or the shaft it turns gets stuck. If you take the shroud off you can test it like I show in this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?693-An-unorthodox-method-for-testing-the-clutch-fan . Have fun :wnk:. Tim

PS: If it's starting to overheat, you can turn on the heat inside the van to help your engine dissipate heat. If that keeps it under control that's a good indication it's a plugged radiator or an air-flow problem. Could still be a t'stat though. Keep in mind that the engine thermostat does not affect flow through the heater cores (heater system bypasses the engine thermostat).


OK so I bought a thermostat from my local Toyota Dealers. Will be installing it in the next few days. I took you up on the suggestion of turning on the heater and it seems to have had an effect. My van never got up to operating temp, but I wasn't really driving anywhere either. My trips were short cause of overheating. Will drive it for 10-20 miles and see what happens.

My fan never come roaring like a lion when it starts. The RPMs are low and it seems like it comes to life like an old beat up caged lion that has been there forever. There's no problem with the radiator being blocked with junk on the outside and all of the shroud is there and functioning.

[skibum]

I just want to re-emphasize what Tim said about replacing the thermostat with a TOYOTA thermostat. I had always gone to Napa, or whatever auto parts store and get a $5 thermostat, but that was GM, Ford, Buick, etc. I did the same with my TV, but last year, I replaced with the $30 dealer thermostat and my cooling is MUCH better. I wish I'd known that years ago when I replaced the stat in my first van.

The statement, "boiling over when I got home", makes me wonder about the head gasket. I'll be getting back to my latest van, that I got in TX last spring. That one is being re-assembled after a head job, but I was having issues with the coolant boiling back in to the overflow reservoir. Hopefully, that's just a worst case scenario, but I mentioned it.

[User1]

The statement, "boiling over when I got home", makes me wonder about the head gasket. I'll be getting back to my latest van, that I got in TX last spring. That one is being re-assembled after a head job, but I was having issues with the coolant boiling back in to the overflow reservoir. Hopefully, that's just a worst case scenario, but I mentioned it.

Man I hope this isn't gona be an engine related fix. I did replace the thermostat with a Toyota one. The one that was in there before was completely gutted out. Looked like the mechanic must have had a temp problem to deal with and did that to alleviate the best he could of the problem. Seemed like after I replaced the thermostat I started getting this thing to leak like a sieve. I don't remember it ever being as bad as the video shows.


http://youtu.be/Kt6qrdU23BI

[skibum]

That doesn't look like a head gasket issue, but what I can see from the video, I'd be looking at replacing the water pump. That is a pretty manageable repair. The water pump is mounted on the front of the engine and doesn't require anything technical, to install. It's a remove and replace type repair.

[User1]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Replace the water pump. I just don't want to be taking thinks apart more than once if possible. If I do have to take the radiator out, I want to have it checked out to see how the condition of it is. Anyone if all water pumps are created equal?

[skibum]

I can't say from the perspective of comparison, but I got one from Napa and it's been serving me well. It was new, not rebuilt, didn't need a core, for about $130 if I remember right.

OEM has advantages, sometimes, so someone might direct you that way, although unlike the thermostat (which I've seen in several of these threads where the recommendation is to get the Toyota thermostat and proved out myself), I haven't seen anyone specify OEM for the water pump.

[timsrv]

One of the problems with aftermarket is consistency. You could order one and get a new OEM or you could get a rebuilt POS......it's a roll of the dice. That being said, I purchased 5 or 6 Beck Arnley water pumps for $12 each during one of those www.rockauto.com "close-out" sales. Every one of them was a new OEM pump. Other times I haven't been so lucky. Sometimes Toyota or their OEM manufacturer will dump a bunch of extra stock and Beck Arnley or other aftermarket competitors will snatch them up. Sometimes when I order larger volumes of aftermarket parts I'll get several variations on the exact same part number (all in the same order). These variations have included new, rebuilt, painted, unpainted, gaskets/extra hardware, no gaskets/extra hardware, good quality, poor quality, etc. Often times they will be packed in boxes of different shapes and colors. As a general rule I've had better luck with Beck Arnley than many of the others. Tim

[User1]

There's an incredible 12 different water pumps to choose from at rockauto.com The prices start at $12.07. Any idea on the shipping? Is there studs coming with some?

At Autozone which is local and close to me is $32 and is a new one. The warranty on it is lifetime.

[timsrv]

IMO what you get is a roll of the dice, but whatever it is it should still be usable. They have a screwy way to calculate shipping on rockauto. I've had them ship something heavy for a very reasonable price, then I've had them try to charge me $10 for a gasket they could ship in an envelope for a postage stamp. I watch the shipping with them and will often delete small items from my cart to make it reasonable.

[User1]

IMO what you get is a roll of the dice,


OK I went ahead and got the water pump from my local auto parts retailer and it arrived about 4 hours later. It's a Duralast new pump made in Japan. It was $36 with tax, but it does come with a life time warranty. I still haven't a clue what the studs(4) are for! :confused:

[timsrv]

If you're talking about the 4 small ones, they are for holding your fan clutch and front pulley on.

[User1]

Yes they're four fairly small studs that came with the water pump. Looks like I should replace the fan clutch if I'm taking that off. If you have a tip on the clutch or water pump, do feel free to enlighten me on it. I read some at TVP by finding every thread heading I could find with "water pump" in it. Looks like I should give good attention to the gasket too. Bit leery on the clutch. I read where some didn't think the thing was coming on at the correct time, if at all.

[timsrv]

Did you try the "torch test" (link in my 2nd post in this thread)? That test is a bit unorthodox and potentially dangerous, but IMO it's the best way to determine if the fan clutch functions. Tim

[User1]

I recall the video and it looked like a good way to check the fan clutch, but I went ahead and just replaced the clutch. The life expectancy of the clutch is 60,00 miles or 5 years and I'm going on the premise that I've gotten this van with no history and with 100,000 miles. So whatever is suppose to have been replaced does get replaced. Looks like this might have been the original on this one. So it was ready.

620

I have a feeling I'm finally getting a handle on this cooling problem. The clutch, water pump and T-stat has been replaced. The clutch and water pump was a piece of cake btw. So gota feeling thing are coming together on this. Looks like the radiator was replaced 9-13-07, or something happened that day. It states "9-13-07JC" on the radiator below,

621

I'm running just water for right now and will flush the system tomorrow and put coolant in it.

[llamavan]

Thought I would ask since I'm not seeing one in your pics and video — did your van's radiator come with the fan shroud?

Gwen

[User1]

Thought I would ask since I'm not seeing one in your pics and video — did your van's radiator come with the fan shroud?

Gwen


Yes and is in good shape and installed correctly.

[User1]

Really getting frustrated doing the flushing and refilling of the cooling system. Thought I had most of the water out of the system today. I figured sense the cooling system has a capacity of about 1.9 gallons, I could drain it and put in a gallon of the coolant. Then top it off with some water. The only thing is that it took about 1/2 gallons of coolant till it was full! That means that I hardly had ANY of the water flushed out of it when I added the coolant.

OK so what's the magic in getting the system flushed and empty? The drain that I added is at a heater hose really close to the front bumper. I guess this isn't doing the trick. I figured that if I opened this drain and took the radiator cap off, then start the van, it would be fairly empty.

[timsrv]

There's a block drain right behind the alternator. It's a major PITA to get too, but if you can open that, between it and your radiator petcock it will pretty much drain the entire system. the block drain is a brass plug with a 14mm hex head. I'm sure you'll have fun with it (I always do) :wnk:. Tim

hint: use a 6 point socket. It's hard to get on it straight and 12 point sockets will tear it up.

[User1]

Man I never figured this was going to be such a hassle! I am not finding either drainage point from either stated above. I look behind the alternator for any drainage and I don't really see anything. Behind the alternator is a mount of some sort. I can't find the "radiator petcock" either. How bout a hint on the radiator petcock? I would assume I can get to it without taking a bash plate off right? I would also assume it's on the bottom of the radiator? I can provide pics if needed to show you what I'm looking at.

[User1]

This can't be one of these drains could it?

631

[timsrv]

Lol, I told you it was a PITA. Here's some pics for you. Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/IMG_1849.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_1851.jpg

[User1]

Thanks Tim. Sorry to be such a pain!

It seemed like they designed this cooling system so that it couldn't be tampered with. Kinda like just set-it and forget it.

[User1]

OK, I think I finally finished this job! :dizzy: I never realized changing the coolant would be this difficult. I had everything back together only to have to take it apart again. NOTE TO SELF; never put things back together when the task is not completed yet.

I had everything all back in place only to have to take the engine cover off the passenger's side so I could get to the radiator petcock. I just don't have the snakey hands that is required to work in tight places. Hell, even the hose of death looks easier than trying to get at that drain on the block. I just relied on the radiator petcock and hoped for the best. It ended up that I just got a gallon of coolant into the system. So I'm considering it done. Hopefully there will not be any more cooling problems, but even if there is, it looks like a cake walk taking the radiator out. Which is the only thing that wasn't replaced and could be a source of the problem.

Thanks for the help Tim. I NEVER would have found that drain without your help.

[User1]

This thing is driving me ------> :dizzy:

OK I was all set to go to three wreckers I've yet to go to this morning. I claim in the van and start putting down the road and the thing is overheating! It was hitting close to the red in less than two miles! Looks like there maybe a leak around the rear heat outlet. Right at that little box thing you can see on the side of the van. Either there or from some line that goes to it. There seems to be very little info I can find on this cooling systems. Has anyone ever seen a complete diagram of the whole cooling system? I know I'm not completely out there thinking this might be a good things, I've seen diagrams on other cars I've worked on.

A couple of other questions that's really got me is that the van today was cooled off to the point that the gauge was showing the needle at a bit over the half-way mark. As it was idling parked at a parking lot, I thought the gauge was going to go down to where it is suppose to idle, a little below the half-way mark. What happened was that the gauge started climbing to the point that I had to shut it down! It took one good stop to get back home. I had gone less than 2 miles away!

OK to help with some questions you may have on this,

*There was still coolant in the overflow tank when originally found overheating.
*The shroud is on it and is working correctly and is mounted correctly.
*There is about a 50% blend of coolant and water in it.
*The T-stat is from Toyota and is installed correctly.
*New clutch fan installed and working.
*Don't know the history on the radiator but looks like it was replaced 9-13-07.
*No I am not hot rodding it. If anything I'm babying it.

I think that pretty much covers the history of this thing.

[User1]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that when I was idling with the gauge at a little over half today, I turned on the heat and the fan was on full blast. What I was really at lost to try and figure out was that it was blowing non-hot air. To me it seemed like the heater wasn't blowing out hot air and was not taking any heat from the system.

[timsrv]

You said there was coolant in the recovery tank but is there coolant up to the top of the engine's filler neck? There needs to be a vacuum before the recovery system can suck coolant back to the engine. If you have a leak somewhere it could be sucking air in through that spot instead of coolant from the recovery tank. For it to overheat so quickly you would almost need to be out of or very low on coolant. Tim

[llamavan]

:whs:

Heater blowing cool/cold while the needle heads red is a classic sign of seriously low coolant.

Gwen

[User1]

I have never really seen good hot air blowing out of the vents on the van. I would say not even mediocre warm air. I tried to add coolant and some water to the system just now and there's a leak around the back of the engine block. Round the block and trans area. Can't really see much without crawling under it. I'll do that tomorrow.

Anything on a diagram?

[skibum]

+1 to Tim and Gwen's statement(s) regarding "seriously low coolant". That is a universal statement, not TV specific.

You mentioned antifreeze around the rear of the engine, by the transmission. That sounds like a "hose-of-death" symptom (my '87 had little drops of antifreeze hanging off the bell housing, when looking underneath the engine/tranny).

My '87 had the hose-of-death problem, and would suck the overflow (or, in the case of the leaking hose-of-death, the supplemental :)) tank dry. My '88 had bad compression in one of the cylinders, so I took the head off and had it surfaced and valves ground. I haven't completed putting it back together, but assuming that that fixes the problem, and it was a blown head gasket, that presented some of your symptoms, such as: when I topped off the antifreeze it would blow warm air out of the heater and eventually (50 - 150 miles down the road, depending on how hard I was pushing it) blow cold air and the temp guage would start rising. This left the overflow tank full (even additional antifreeze in it, if I remember).

Now, it's possible that you have a combination of bad hoses. You could have a blown hose-of-death and a vacuum leak between the overflow tank and filler neck. That would explain the reserve in the tank. It might be worth doing a compression test and ensure that your cylinders are within 10% of each other. You can get a compression tester for about $20 - $30.

[skibum]

I thought it might be worth adding the hose-of-death thread link to the discussion, just in case that does end up being the problem. http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?213-The-hose-of-death-thread&highlight=hose+death .

I can only take credit for looking up the link. Tim's pictures were very helpful in cutting an access hatch. I didn't end up with quite the re-assembly quality, as I just cut a "flap" and bent it out of the way and then bent it back in place when I was done. I used the "layout" picture to figure out where it was safe to cut. I cut top, bottom and passenger side of the hole, bent it out of the way, reached in and verified where the vacuum line was.

I can't remember who to credit, but someone here, or at TVP used a Roto-Zip. I thought about using my sawzall, but being unsure how much clearance I had between firewall and engine, opted for the former. Plus it gave me an excuse to buy a Roto-Zip :).

[timsrv]

Read this: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/content.php?216-Other-parts-to-replace-while-replacing-Head-Gasket

A blown head gasket may not be your problem, but this article is informative and has links in it to many other valuable threads that will help you through this. If nothing else just click on the threads it links to. Everything you ever wanted to know (and more) is there at your fingertips. Tim

[User1]

+1 to Tim and Gwen's statement(s) regarding "seriously low coolant". That is a universal statement, not TV specific.

You mentioned antifreeze around the rear of the engine, by the transmission. That sounds like a "hose-of-death" symptom (my '87 had little drops of antifreeze hanging off the bell housing, when looking underneath the engine/tranny).


Thanks for the reply skibum,

My hose of death is actually in fairly good shape, as of last week.

639

I do plan on cutting the hole to be able to deal with it. Maybe I'll go ahead and deal with it BEFORE I have to deal with it.

@Tim, I've read that thread and followed the links. I'll do it again since I'm not really doing anything now. I went back and took a look at the online manual (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q4u_5zlshRsVDv5v86CiukP7wOD7nKyF/view) and really there ain't much on there for the cooling system.

[User1]

Well that water leak was one of the heater hoses around the oil filter giving out. I went ahead and replaced both of those hoses. Good thing it went out a mile or two from my house. I feel like I'm getting to be quite the expert at flushing my radiator system too :yes:. I gota feeling it will be such an embarrassment if I was ever caught with a dirty cooling system now :rol:.

Anyone got a connection or a source for the upper and lower radiator hoses? I'm thinking I might as well replace those before flushing the system again. I got a feeling the ones on it are ok. I might keep those for spares.

[llamavan]

I always get OEM Toyota radiator hoses. I've seen some of the aftermarket ones that allegedly fit the vans, and ... well, at least some of what's out there doesn't even come close to fitting.

Gwen

[User1]

I always get OEM Toyota radiator hoses. I've seen some of the aftermarket ones that allegedly fit the vans, and ... well, at least some of what's out there doesn't even come close to fitting.

Gwen


I ended up with getting Gates hoses and a cap at Rockauto. I got this boundless energy that it's all gona work out! :dance2:

[timsrv]

IMHO I think Gates is just as good as Toyota. Toyota fits slightly better (no trimming required) but I believe the quality of both is without question. As for pricing, if you use a discount Toyota parts site (like www.1sttoyotaparts.com) they are about the same. Tim

[User1]

IMHO I think Gates is just as good as Toyota. Toyota fits slightly better (no trimming required) but I believe the quality of both is without question. As for pricing, if you use a discount Toyota parts site (like www.1sttoyotaparts.com (http://www.1sttoyotaparts.com)) they are about the same. Tim


I ended up just passing on replacing the upper and lower hoses. They're in good shape and I really don't want to start looking for things to do to the van. :no: I did replace the radiator cap though! I'm just going to save the Gates flex hose replacements in the van and have them for any needed repairs.

[timsrv]

If you're talking about flex-hoses I take back what I said. I hate flex hoses............I was talking about their formed hoses and bulk heater hoses. Tim

[User1]

If you're talking about flex-hoses I take back what I said. I hate flex hoses............I was talking about their formed hoses and bulk heater hoses. Tim

I hate these flex hoses too! Fortunutely they weren't too expensive. It would have been nice if they were the molded hoses. I might have changed them then! I'll spend a little more time on researching these two hoses!

[timsrv]

I guess I lied earlier (regarding prices). If you get at Rock Auto the Gates are cheaper. There is however their ridiculous shipping calculator, so end price will likely be comparable. Here's the part numbers with current pricing. Gates info is copy/paste from Rock Auto, Toyota info is copy/paste from www.1stToyotaParts.com. Toyota is ready to install, Gates may require some trimming to get the "almost proper" fit. Keep in mind 2wds & 4wds use different hoses........except the Gates, I think the uppers are interchangeable from one to another (just a little more trimming depending on which one you're working on). Tim


GATES Part # 21173 Molded Coolant Hose; 1 1/4" x 21 13/16" Does Not Contain Spring
Cut to fit; Lower; 4WD $15.72

GATES Part # 21737 Molded Coolant Hose; 1 5/16" x 22" Does Not Contain Spring
Upper
Cut to Fit; Upper $12.85

HOSE, RADIATOR, 4wd Lwr [Part# 1657273040]
Toyota
List Price:$36.49
Your Price:$26.33


HOSE, RADIATOR, 4wd Upper [Part# 1657173050]
Toyota
List Price:$36.49
Your Price:$26.33

[User1]

Tim,

Is there anyway of checking if they replaced the radiator in my van with a more common 2wd radiator? Do the two radiators inter-change easily? Just examining how everything fits and stuff, it looks like it's the stock radiator in it.

I'm lost in what can still be causing my overheating. I got about 10 miles yesterday, which is an improvement! It started to get hotter, but fortunately I had to stop. I would be F'ed if I had to climb a hill yesterday! I can list all the things done so far and the condition of practically everything on it.

I do have the thing being stuck in 3 gear some days. Yesterday was one of them. I just never know if I got 4th gear or not. Some days yeah, others no. And this is after I discounted the sensor on the engine block.

[JRSJ]

Is there anyway of checking if they replaced the radiator in my van with a more common 2wd radiator? Do the two radiators inter-change easily?


2WD rads are different from 4WD ones, and are not interchangeable.

[JRSJ]

Don't mind me chiming in, as I'm a little late to the party. I need to check the 4WD part of the forum more often.

Something is bugging me about the fact you're still overheating even after replacing those parts. Have you tried running the van with the rad cap off to operating temp and watching for bubbles appearing at the filler neck? Forgive me if you've already done this, just its the easiest way to see if you have HG issues.

[timsrv]

You could probably put a 2wd radiator in there if you removed your front differential :shock:. The reason the 4wd radiators are different is because the differential is in the way (radiators are shorter on 4wd vans).

Did you check out the threads I linked you to earlier? Sounds like it's time to do an HC test on your cooling system. Tim

[User1]

Don't mind me chiming in, as I'm a little late to the party. I need to check the 4WD part of the forum more often.

Something is bugging me about the fact you're still overheating even after replacing those parts. Have you tried running the van with the rad cap off to operating temp and watching for bubbles appearing at the filler neck? Forgive me if you've already done this, just its the easiest way to see if you have HG issues.


Hey JR,

I haven't done this. I can do this tomorrow and report back.

Thanks,

[User1]

Did you check out the threads I linked you to earlier? Sounds like it's time to do an HC test on your cooling system. Tim

I reread the threads and can almost recite the text. I've reread it again before posting just now.

I'm thinking this test kit (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/CST-Pressure-Tester-Adapters/_/N-26vg?itemIdentifier=84330_0_0_&target=shelf) can be used to do the pressure testing? It's available for free via Autozone. I just have to return it in one piece. Doing the HC test will be next. I'll call some local auto repair places and see what Napa has for this.

The thing that stopped me from doing the HC test is that except for the overheating, the van is running quite well. I haven't taken it to any mechanics yet but the dude that did the smog test, was impressed with the van and told me it's running quite well. Oh and it passed the smog test no problem.

[timsrv]

The pressure test kit can be useful if you have unexplained loss of coolant. If it's not leaking or losing any, then you probably don't need it. If there's HC's in the cooling system, then that's a good indication of a slowly leaking head-gasket. IMO the 2wd van cooling system is just barely big enough, and the 4wd has an even smaller radiator. This means it's gotta flow & transfer heat at top performance just to do the minimum job of keeping the van cool. If you have doubts about the radiator, take it into a radiator shop. They will remove a tank and inspect / rod it out for under $100 (assuming it's not rotten). At least then you'll know it's not that.

I know you've already done a lot (and probably already posted about it), but I just wanted to confirm you've replaced the thermostat and tested the clutch fan. Could you hear it roar and take some horsepower when the needle started climbing beyond the 1/2 way mark? You've also verified the coolant is up to the top of the filler cap too......right?

[User1]

I know you've already done a lot (and probably already posted about it), but I just wanted to confirm you've replaced the thermostat and tested the clutch fan. Could you hear it roar and take some horsepower when the needle started climbing beyond the 1/2 way mark? You've also verified the coolant is up to the top of the filler cap too......right?

Hey Tim, OK so here's the recap on all done and status,

Waterpump - Duralast made in Japan, life time warranty
Fan clutch - Hayden made in USA life expectancy of the clutch is 60,00 miles or 5 years
T-stat - Toyota part and replaced documented above
Radiator - has "9-13-07JC" on it and 1 gallon of 100% coolant plus water
Radiator cap - replaced with Gates cap
Hoses - upper and lower look good, I've replaced others and documented, hose of death replaced somewhere in it's life (pic above)
Heater is blowing out good hot air (even though one of my controls levers for "hot" doesn't work that well)


I'll be doing JR's suggestion and yours today and get back. I don't have a torch to do your test, but I'll work with what I have. I'll take a look again at the coolant and see where it's at. I'll look today for the HC test.

[skibum]

User1,

You mentioned that your "hot" lever doesn't work. If you go under the front of the van, there is a valve there that can hang up. Take a channel-lock or something and wiggle it back and forth. They can get gummed, so if you free it up at the valve, the cable will have an easier time actuating the valve for temp control.

[User1]

User1,

You mentioned that your "hot" lever doesn't work. If you go under the front of the van, there is a valve there that can hang up. Take a channel-lock or something and wiggle it back and forth. They can get gummed, so if you free it up at the valve, the cable will have an easier time actuating the valve for temp control.

Hey skibum,

Thanks for the response. I'm somewhat new to the TV and have a bit trouble navigating around it. Is there anyway to give more info on to where exactly is this valve? Sounds like I got to disconnect the valve then wiggle it?

[User1]

JR,

Looks like there's bubbling happening at the radiator cap. There was always gasses coming out as the video shows.


http://youtu.be/SvM9C7JzbgM


http://youtu.be/qXHWbPhko9U


@Tim,

Oh and I called 3 Napa stores in the area. One didn't know what I was talking about and had nothing for checking the checking for Hydro Carbons in the cooling system. Another referred me to this item (http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=FIL4106_0331367295), the third referred me to this item (http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=BK_7001006_0361181638). I'm assuming that is the item you are referring to (3rd item)? I called the radiator shops in my town and surrounding area. There's one that has been servicing the area since '38 and he did sound like he knew his business. He's charging $25 for checking for hydro carbons.

[timsrv]

I don't like the looks of that. You could have a small compression leak into the cooling system. Get the HC test. The Block Tester (the one the 3rd Napa store suggested) is the one I've used. It works. If you don't like other people touching your stuff or if you think you might be doing this again someday, then that might be the way to go. If you trust the shop and don't care to ever do this again then I'd probably just pay them to test it.

[skibum]

Hey skibum,

Thanks for the response. I'm somewhat new to the TV and have a bit trouble navigating around it. Is there anyway to give more info on to where exactly is this valve? Sounds like I got to disconnect the valve then wiggle it?

If you look under the front of the van, you'll see a cable hooked in to an actuator lever. The bracket is mounted horizontally and the valve is inline in the heater hose. It will make sense when you look in there.

[User1]

Interesting info on the coolant capacity here,

Coolant capacity (w/ Heater):
2WD w/o Rear heater
7.9 liters (8.3 US qts, 7.0 Imp.qts)
w/ Rear heater
8.4 liters (8.9 US qts, 7.4 Imp.qts)
4WD w/o Rear heater
7.0 liters (7.4 US qts, 6.2 Imp. qts)
w/ Rear heater
7.5 liters (7.9 US qts, 6.6 Imp. qts)

[User1]

If you look under the front of the van, you'll see a cable hooked in to an actuator lever. The bracket is mounted horizontally and the valve is inline in the heater hose. It will make sense when you look in there.

OK thanks skibum,

I think I'll have some time to do this tomorrow. Looks like I'm going to be taking my head off pretty soon. I gota find someone to do the machine work.

[User1]

I don't like the looks of that. You could have a small compression leak into the cooling system. Get the HC test.

OK looks like I'll be doing the head sometime in the future. I managed to read every thread that had "head gasket" in the title. I saw your write up on replacing the parts along with the head work. Is the power steering pump something I should think about? It's working good and no leaks that are noticeable. I'll look closer at the system. There was a reference of a $40 sensor that I should replace. Is that correct?

Looks like the 1000 page manual is going to be a good friend of mine. This seemed kinda strange on it;

CLEAN CYLINDER HEAD
Using a soft brush and solvent, thoroughly clean the head.

CAUTION: Do not clean the head in a hot tank as this
would seriously damage it.

ref: pg 41

[timsrv]

It flunked the HC test? I believe the $40 part you're referring to is the BVSV (Bi Metal Vacuum Switching Valve) otherwise known as the "Oh crap I broke it valve". If it's not already broken AND if you can remove/re-install the head without breaking it, then you're golden. It's got 2 little plastic nipples on it for vacuum lines. After years exposed to engine heat the nipples become fragile and break off. Rather than worry about it I would just plan on replacement.

If you end up removing the head I would recommend taking it to a machine shop. They will tear it down and check it out for you. Most of the better shops will have a washing machine for cleaning it up. At the very least you will want to put new valve guide seals on it. It will also likely need new valve guides and possibly a valve grind. It should also be checked for flatness. If it's warped beyond acceptable limits it will need resurfacing. Have them check it closely for cracks. If you can't afford this type of service, then there are ways to check things yourself. I believe I've outlined these in other places here on TVT...........good luck. Tim

[User1]

It flunked the HC test? I believe the $40 part you're referring to is the BVSV (Bi Metal Vacuum Switching Valve) otherwise known as the "Oh crap I broke it valve".

Yes they gave it two tests and it flunked both of them. Funny thing is it drove ok all day today. OK, I didn't drive on the freeway. And yes that's the valve I was interested in replacing BEFORE I break it. Can you give me the info for tracking this one down? I'm going to have to do some research on getting the machining done on this. Not really up to speed on who's who around here.

[timsrv]

It's all laid out in those links...........everything you need:


I am very sorry for the late response. My computer crashed and my life has been upside-down for the last week. I've resolved my computer issues and everything is up and running again :)>:. I somehow managed to go about 5 or 6 years without any problems, but the last few months I've made up for it. I finally just went out and got a laptop and of course I had to have something unique......yadda yadda........okay so I'm rambling, sorry. If anybody's interested I made some posts on the HP forum HERE (http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Hardware/SSD-booting-issue/td-p/566365).

Okay, back on topic. You mentioned you purchased a head gasket kit? You got a genuine Toyota gasket set right? There is a wide varience in quality when it comes to aftermarket head gaskets, so unless you're feeling lucky you should stick with Toyota here.......just saying :wnk:.

The valve grind gasket kit for the 4y is Toyota Part #04112-73035. There have been different numbers used for this same kit over the years, so don't be too surprised if that number is superseded by another. As for hoses, I don't like flex hoses and will only use them when there are not other alternatives. I consider formed hoses to be far superior. There are a lot of formed hoses in the engine compartment. Most are still available but some are not. Last time I ordered these Toyota substituted some straight hoses for some of the formed coolant hoses. I ended up taking these back because why pay $15 for a piece of 18" straight 5/8 heater hose???

For the ones that are still available I marked up these break-down sketches from the EPC with part numbers. If I say "use bulk hose" it means you will either get bulk hose from Toyota at a very high price, or it is NLA (No Longer Available). For some of the smaller 5/16" hoses I found that Gates hose is actually superior to factory Toyota hose so I marked this up to show the locations this will work in. Some of the others are bent too sharp (bulk hose might kink) so I listed Toyota part numbers for those. There are some slight differences from 2wd to 4wd on some of these hoses so if you order make sure you copy down the correct part numbers.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/2wdhoses.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/2wdfrontheaterhosesyr2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/2wdrearheaterhoses.jpg

Note 1: The EPC lists this hose as #99556-20300 for 2wd and #87245-95D12 for 4wd. The last time I ordered the one for 2wd Toyota sent me a hose in a package with the correct part number, but it was actually a 12" piece of 1/2" ID straight hose (not formed). So for this one I say save your money and just get a piece of 1/2" bulk heater hose for 50 cents (Toyota charged me $13). I'm not sure what you'd get if you ordered the 4wd hose, but it wouldn't surprise me if you got the same thing.

Okay, here's the air valve hoses and the ventilation hoses for the valve cover. The last few times I ordered the PCV grommet from Toyota there was a problem with the part number, but I found Dorman makes replacement ones that fit nice. Dorman has the racks marked "HELP!" in the retail section of most auto parts stores. You will find several rubber parts like this there, just use the part number in the picture below to identify the correct one.

Note: Rubber line (not shown) that goes from intake manifold to the metal line on firewall (brake booster vacuum supply) is Toyota #44774‑28080

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/valvecoverhoses.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/airvalvehoses.jpg

Okay, last but not least is your BVSV (Bi-metal Vacuum Switching Valve) otherwise known as the "Oh crap I broke it valve". The plastic nipples on this valve get extremely brittle from the heat of the engine compartment and will break off if you look at them wrong. If you're pulling the head it's almost a given this valve will break. Last time I purchased one was about 2 years ago and at that time they were still available through Toyota. The valve's mission in life is to inhibit EGR operation when the engine is cold. These run about $40. Here is a picture of one.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/IMG_0659.jpg

As for your question regarding flushing out the lower end, I would advise against that. Nobody likes the idea of heavy sludge or chunks of scale floating around down there, but unless you tear down the bottom end, other than changing your oil there's not much you can do. Using crank-case flushing products on old engines is a bad idea. Scale or build-up doesn't do any harm when it's stuck to an engine surface. If the cleaning product actually works it will only serve to move the gunk from it's harmless position into a potentially bad one. When this stuff floats around in the pan it will typically end up stuck to the oil pump pick-up screen and if enough of it gets deposited there it can starve your engine for oil.

Chances are whatever fell down there during head removal will eventually drain out during an oil change or it will find a harmless place to deposit itself. Just try to minimize any further contamination and you should be okay. Tim

[User1]

I was kinda hinting around a connection on getting this valve at the cheaper price than $60. Seems a bit high for stupid little thing with no electronics either. Looks like other Toyotas have these "BVSV"s too.

[timsrv]

I've never tried to get one aftermarket. Maybe you could check with O'Reily's or somebody to see if they could save you a buck.

[User1]

I've never tried to get one aftermarket. Maybe you could check with O'Reily's or somebody to see if they could save you a buck.

Looks like all the auto parts stores worth checking don't have a substitute for this valve. I tried Oreily, Autozone, and Napa. All coming up empty. I did see that
http://www.discounttoyotaparts.net/ and http://www.toyotapartszone.com/ both came up positive for having this valve. They were roughly around $40 with shipping. Beats the hell out of spending over $60 for the part.

I might go to the wreckers one day and see if I could get this part off of a Toyota. I saw that this valve fits a TON of different models*. I may just go and see what I could find. I might as well try to save $40 if I can.

*Can send a text file of all the models if someone needs it. It's just rather big and don't want to plaster it on the thread here.

[User1]

Well I couldn't get to the wreckers till today and I would have to say I'm rather satified with what I was able to find.


673

If these are kinda dark, I can photo them in the day time and they should be better. Anyways, this is what I got in two large yards. BTW, they had very few TVs, saw more Mitsubishi vans than TV. Go figure!

The first row is of the proper part, 90925-05017. The last one is of some aftermarket part with no part number on it. The second row is of 90925-05068 part that I was going to use if I couldn't find the correct ones. The 90925-05017 ones were almost all found in a few '89 Toyota Camery. The very first two were a B***H to get off. I had to resort to using vise-grips to get them off. Number 3 and 4 is what I'll use. The others I'll just have as needed.

Little on part finding these. OK the ones on the bottom row you'll pretty much find them all day. The "correct ones" take a little more time finding them, but you can. They were all located in pretty much the same area. Driver's side of the engine compartment and in the top area. If you have a 19mm open end wrench, use that. A crescent wrench is doable but it can be done. Some just don't want to come out! They are pretty much solid but can break. Saw alot that were broken from others wrenching on the car. Some that the car was fairly striped and was easy to get to.

All in all beats the hell out of paying $40-60 on one of these!

The bottom row valve takes a 24mm.

[timsrv]

Lol, looks like you got a lifetime supply there. The van is pretty hard on plastic parts (at least in the engine compartment). I'm guessing the Camry ones still have lots of life left. 1st time I had to remove one of these I smashed it with a hammer then removed the base with a regular socket (what the hell, it was already broken :lol:). Putting the new one in was a slight PITA due to the fuel line right there so I cut a slot out of a thick-wall deep socket and used that. I replace these things every so often (in different vans) so the socket gets used semi-regularly. here's a picture:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/IMG_9730.jpg

[User1]

wwoooo doggie!!!! Cutting up a Craftman deep socket just for dealing with this part huh? Think I'm going to look at ebay or try some kind of cheapo tool store. I value my Craftmans.

Getting back to these valves. Looks like these things are just passed over by everyone pulling parts. I saw very few that were pulled from the manifolds. They were pretty much always left. Some even had everything pulled from the engine. After finding one I was able to spots these easily too. Just had to spot the 80's Toyotas.

One more pic for good measures,

679

[User1]

I ended up getting a Craftsman socket. I didn't want to do stuff twice, so went with the Craftsman. It went against my restitution to destroy a perfect socket that I could have added to my collection, but what the heck.

686

[trestlehed]

What kind of tool did you guys use to cut the slot in those sockets?

[User1]

What kind of tool did you guys use to cut the slot in those sockets?

I used a dremel and one disposable cutting disc. I was under the impression that it was going to be a b***h to cut this, but I was abit underwhelmed with the hardest of the metal.

BTW, I'm gona use this dremel for cutting my assess to the hose of death. This thing just doesn't die! All the cooling fins are busted off and it runs like NO BIGGY!

[timsrv]

I used a die grinder and a cut-off wheel for the long cuts. I switched to a dremel with a worn cut-off wheel for the short cut. I held it close to my chest while cutting, then noticed my shirt was smoldering when I finished :lol:. I ended up with an extra button hole in that shirt. :)

User1, that's a thin-wall socket.............not sure how well it will do if you run into a tight one to remove. Tim

[User1]

User1, that's a thin-wall socket.............not sure how well it will do if you run into a tight one to remove. Tim

It just needs to survive long enough to get the good one on my van. I guess it would be saved for if I ever have to deal with this valve again. As far as taking them off on the van, I'll do what you did and use a good 19mm socket. As far as taking them off at the wreckers, I'll use what I was doing.

[skibum]

I used a die grinder and a cut-off wheel for the long cuts. I switched to a dremel with a worn cut-off wheel for the short cut. I held it close to my chest while cutting, then noticed my shirt was smoldering when I finished :lol:. I ended up with an extra button hole in that shirt. :)

User1, that's a thin-wall socket.............not sure how well it will do if you run into a tight one to remove. Tim

I'm not sure how much clearance you have around that part, but if you did have a "tight" one, you could probably "strap" the socket with a hose clamp, to keep it from spreading. Just a thought.

[User1]

If you look under the front of the van, you'll see a cable hooked in to an actuator lever. The bracket is mounted horizontally and the valve is inline in the heater hose. It will make sense when you look in there.


Hey skibum,

I had a chance to look at this the other day. I'm pretty sure this cable connection is for the lever that selects the possible airflow in the dash area. For example, foot area or face area, etc, etc. The lever that is sticking is the lever for the temp of the air coming out.

If you are correct, then this lever underneath moves fairly freely when disconnected.

[skibum]

I'm going to have to look again. I thought it was the water valve, but looking in the manual, it looks like there is also an air valve that looks similar. The picture was my van that has a working heater valve, but I'm at our winter home and that lever is hung up, so I will try to free it. Then I'll verify which valve I think I'm looking at.

Nice time of year to make sure the heater is working, anyway :)

[timsrv]

The airmix damper & the water valve are both operated by the single temp lever (2 cables). This is part of the reason there's so much resistance here. The other levers only operate 1 cable each. Tim

[skibum]

Thanks for that clarification, Tim. I've got my front end up in the air right now, doing brakes, so I think I will work on that valve at the same time.

[timsrv]

It's been my experience that lubing the cables does the most good. Tri-Flow (http://www.amazon.com/Tri-Flow-Superior-Lubricant-4oz-Aerosol/dp/B002EX5B6O/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1355879710&sr=8-5&keywords=tri-flow+lubricant) lube works well for this. Disconnect the cable, then seal the little red delivery tube to the cable jacket with plastic wrap. If you wrap it nice and tight it will allow you to inject the lube right up through the cable. I usually spray until it drips out the other end of the cable. I've never tried it from the business end of the cables before, but I bet it might work. If you already got the van on jack stands I'd give that a try. The other cable (for the airmix damper) terminates near the gas pedal. That one might be a little more difficult. Good luck. Tim

[skibum]

I'll have to give the lube a try. The valve seems to be moving no problem, so perhaps it is the cable(s). Our Subaru is getting us around just fine, now, but there is a big storm coming (maybe 5', here in the Tahoe Basin, by Monday!), so the van does a better job due to more clearance and weight.

[timsrv]

The cables are a known problem. The cables dig into the outer sheath (particularly on the bends) and when the grooves get deep enough the cables bind. The correct fix would be to replace the cables, but unfortunately none of these are available anymore. At this point all you can do is put some lube in there (hopefully before the control assy breaks). This is a good band-aid and will remedy the issue for 1-2 years.............then you'll need to do it again. BTW, the water valves and the upper control assy's are no longer available either :anger:. Tim

[AD2101]

673

The second row is of 90925-05068 part that I was going to use if I couldn't find the correct ones.

The bottom row valve takes a 24mm.

Shot in the dark but, aside from being 24mm rather than 19mm, does the 90925-05068 valve function the same as the 90925-05017 valve that our vans call for? I checked out around 8 Toyotas of similar vintage today in my yard, and was only able to find the former. I figured it was worth a try at $4 versus I believe the $50 plus the new ones are from the dealer.

[iq_artwork]

Hello everyone, I have a question about the BVSV.

I was trying to find it in my van and I think I don't have one, can be possible. Please see attached pics.
10489


These two hoses on the left pics go direct to distributor.


10490


Is it somewhere else and I can't see it? If it's missing can I add it in my '84 van? Do I need it because I can see the part in the manual book.


10491
10492

[iq_artwork]

Here a youtube video with 3 different videos from my van.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjGsGE0yCns


As you see in the videos, my van has only 2 metal pipes going from my TB direct to my vacuum distributor, instead of having 4 metal pipes. Also I don't have a BVSV.


I passed the smoke test with no problem and van runs fine. My question is, why is it like that, any ideas?

[AD2101]

Gates may require some trimming to get the "almost proper" fit. Keep in mind 2wds & 4wds use different hoses........except the Gates, I think the uppers are interchangeable from one to another (just a little more trimming depending on which one you're working on). Tim

GATES Part # 21173 Molded Coolant Hose; 1 1/4" x 21 13/16" Does Not Contain Spring
Cut to fit; Lower; 4WD $15.72

Has anyone actually purchased and/or successfully used the Gates 21173 or the ACDelco 24105L (listed on RockAuto as a similar part) on their vans? I ordered both from RockAuto and what I received was...... not radiator hoses. The good news is, both parts are the same, the ACDelco version being about $10 cheaper than the Gates. The bad news? These are very small, molded heater hoses, and are not even remotely what these 4x4 vans need.

It's odd, given that the photos and hose dimensions listed on RockAuto match up with what we need and are listed as compatible parts for a lower radiator hose. I'm obviously going to return these hoses as they are useless, I'm just wondering if anyone can confirm that either the Gates or the ACDelco have worked for them before I go down the rabbit hole of reordering the same parts from a different supplier. FWIW, both hoses have the correct part numbers affixed to them, so I'm at a loss here.

A brief google shows that the OEM Toyota part (16572-73040) as being discontinued and unavailable, so as it stands now, flexihose is the only viable option I know of for us 4x4 folks.

[Gareth]

Has anyone actually purchased and/or successfully used the Gates 21173 or the ACDelco 24105L (listed on RockAuto as a similar part) on their vans? I ordered both from RockAuto and what I received was...... not radiator hoses. The good news is, both parts are the same, the ACDelco version being about $10 cheaper than the Gates. The bad news? These are very small, molded heater hoses, and are not even remotely what these 4x4 vans need.


Strange, I ordered Gates 21173 from RockAuto back in July '22 and it was fine (I think I did trim it a little to fit better), but definitely the right size and shape.

(Gates 21737 for the upper, ordered from Amazon).

[AD2101]

:doh: I was really hoping this was just a bad part # because this is what I received:

11974

11975

I tried to get the respective part numbers visible on both but, without getting into exact measurements, the ID on these hoses is smaller than my thumb, and I've been frequently ridiculed my whole life for having slender fingers and thumbs.

These came from two different RockAuto warehouses so I guess I'll write them and see if there's some explanation for what's going on here. Thanks for the prompt response btw, Gareth!

[timsrv]

That's funny, must be some mis-labeling going on??? I just pulled one of these from my parts inventory and it's definitely a radiator hose. Here's a picture of it:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a23/timsrv/IMG_4599.JPG