Timing issue?? That's my guess....

[HI_Beach_Van]

Hello, I replaced the distributor in my 1989 van. I got the rotor and distributor back to the original location that the old one was setting (It was as close as I could get it, maybe its a tooth off, I'm not sure.). the new distributor fixed the sluggish, hesitation etc., that I was having.

Now when I drive it makes kind of a rattling noise upon acceleration ( it sounds like I'm driving an old diesel Mercedes, if anyone understands what I'm talking about). When I place my hand on the distributor cap while accelerating I can feel a vibration (feels like the rotor is contacting the inside of the cap). When I manually turn the distributor by hand slightly, the noise/ vibration becomes more/ less pronounce. This only happens while driving not while in park or idle.

here is a video with the noise.
https://youtu.be/6Ossmpu3EnU

Thank you for any input.

[HI_Beach_Van]

So I took the van to a mechanic ( 1. this is my daily driver and I have to go to work tomorrow 2. I don't own a timing light 3. running out of time to learn how to properly time the van) He said that it was pinging and "advanced" too much. Had just as much trouble getting the distributor to set just right. After doing some research he found that the distributor has a notch on the housing and a hole in the gear that need to be lined up and then installed with the engine at TDC. it is timed "dead on" says the mechanic but the distributor is bolted down twisted to one side.

The rebuilt distributor that I ordered had the gear off by 180 degrees. once he flipped the gear on the distributor and reinstalled the part, the van ran better. Less pinging, but still pings at high RPM.....the mechanic thinks that the rebuilt distributor is not working properly. :wall:

[Burntboot]

Pinging WILL destroy a head gasket in very short order and that is not a repair you want to invite over early

The engine should ALWAYS be at TDC #1, before tear down, wether it be for a distributor RE&RE or replacing a head gasket.
By taking it apart at a known place (where everything has marks to set it up) really is the easiest way, even though it takes and extra 15m or so.

If the timing is dead on, then the distributor housing should be in the same place it always was.
And if it didn't ping before, it shouldn't ping now.
Sounds like its off a tooth and the housing has been cranked around to compensate.
It will run like that, but not like it should.

Why would the rebuilt distributor be "the" problem, if the engine is running?
There is nothing inside a distributor that could malfunction in a way to cause the problem you are having.
(there are no mechanical weights, its all electronic)
Perhaps it might be more prudent to get another mechanic?
Another option would be to spend $20 and buy a timing light and learn how to do it yourself.

You must understand that most of todays practising technicians have never had to deal with distributors.
They are like little black boxes to them, full of technology that they don't understand.
It's best to learn to deal with that stuff, yourself.

[kamesama980]

The other possibility, and I'm not sure if this is possible, is they put a similar but incorrect part in the box. something that fits but isn't quite right.

+1 for getting a different mechanic to take a look. It's unlikely to get a toyota part that fits and kinda runs but doesn't work right.

Do you still have the old distributor to compare to? what was the problem that caused you to replace it in the first place?

[Jdelgado]

I had a similar issue happen to me. Timing was off causing pre detention / spark knock. Adjusted the cap a bit and voila!
Don't put it off unless you wanna do more work :doh:

[originalkwyjibo]

It is also possible that your harmonic balancer has spun causing the timing marks to move. It may be timed "dead on" to the timing mark, but if the mark has moved than the actual ignition timing is wrong. You or your mexhanic would need to verify TDC matches up with the timing mark . There are a few threads discussing issues with the balancers but with the current photobucket issues I would suspect there may be missing photos in those threads. It certainly wouldn't hurt to do a search and have a look though.

[HI_Beach_Van]

The other possibility, and I'm not sure if this is possible, is they put a similar but incorrect part in the box. something that fits but isn't quite right.

+1 for getting a different mechanic to take a look. It's unlikely to get a toyota part that fits and kinda runs but doesn't work right.

Do you still have the old distributor to compare to? what was the problem that caused you to replace it in the first place?

I still have the old distributor and I compared them when I pulled it. I was getting codes for the distributor and o2 sensor. The van was hesitating and sluggish. Once the rebuilt distributor was installed the van ran fine (except for the pinging) replaced o2 sensor and now the check engine light is off.

[HI_Beach_Van]

Pinging WILL destroy a head gasket in very short order and that is not a repair you want to invite over early

The engine should ALWAYS be at TDC #1, before tear down, wether it be for a distributor RE&RE or replacing a head gasket.
By taking it apart at a known place (where everything has marks to set it up) really is the easiest way, even though it takes and extra 15m or so.

If the timing is dead on, then the distributor housing should be in the same place it always was.
And if it didn't ping before, it shouldn't ping now.
Sounds like its off a tooth and the housing has been cranked around to compensate.
It will run like that, but not like it should.

Why would the rebuilt distributor be "the" problem, if the engine is running?
There is nothing inside a distributor that could malfunction in a way to cause the problem you are having.
(there are no mechanical weights, its all electronic)
Perhaps it might be more prudent to get another mechanic?
Another option would be to spend $20 and buy a timing light and learn how to do it yourself.

You must understand that most of todays practising technicians have never had to deal with distributors.
They are like little black boxes to them, full of technology that they don't understand.
It's best to learn to deal with that stuff, yourself.

I’m worried that I’m going to mess the engine up, as this is my daily driver and can’t work on it until the weekends. Every time I hear it ping in let off the accelerator and cringe. I have a 25 mile round trip to work, up hill. This Friday I will be able to dig into rectifying the problem. I ordered another distributor on the recommendation of the mechanic, but I will try and to reset the one that is in there first. I’ll have to search for the TDC procedures and then go from there. Thank you for the response.

[HI_Beach_Van]

It is also possible that your harmonic balancer has spun causing the timing marks to move. It may be timed "dead on" to the timing mark, but if the mark has moved than the actual ignition timing is wrong. You or your mexhanic would need to verify TDC matches up with the timing mark . There are a few threads discussing issues with the balancers but with the current photobucket issues I would suspect there may be missing photos in those threads. It certainly wouldn't hurt to do a search and have a look though.

Thanks for the heads up. I’ll start researching harmonic balancers...:dizzy:

[Burntboot]

If it is pinging that bad, it really shouldn't be driven.
At the very least, if you MUST drive it, back off the timing until it stops pinging but still has some power.
Then get yourself a timing light and set it up properly on the weekend.

[VanCo]

If you have to drive it and cannot back off the timing fill the tank with the highest octane gas you can. Also add a can of octane booster from an auto parts store. If you're just a bit too advanced that will help a lot. If it's ridiculously too far advanced, it will help, but not make the detonation go away. Octane is the fuels ability to resist detonation. Too much detonation for too long can cause damage, if it causes preignition, it will cause catastrophic damage.

If you are interested in learning more:

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/EngineBasics.html

[originalkwyjibo]

If the timing is supposedly "nuts on", the distributor is all the to one on the adjustment slot, and it's pinging that bad than the timing is not correct. When I was first learning, I was taught an oldschool way to time an engine with a vacuum gauge in the absence of a timing light. Connect a vacuum gauge to direct manifold vacuum. You would then jump the diagnostic connector like normal for setting the ignition timing. Watch the gauge as you rotate the distributor. You want the highest reading you can get while still running well. Once you get that, retard the timing enough to reduce the vacuum by 2 inches. I've checked this setting with a timing light and it has usually been within 2 degrees. It's fairly easy and possibly a helpful way to diagnose a slipped balancer.

[HI_Beach_Van]

Thanks for all the replies. I ended up using a buddies second vehicle to get back and forth to work for a few days. Now it’s the weekend and I have been learning through trial and error how to get everything lined up really close. Now I know how to use a timing light, which is actually really cool. My problem now, which I think the mechanic had the same, is when I get the BTDC (12* Jumped) it’s either all the way advanced or all the way retarded based on the physical stop of the securing bolt. I keeping pulling the distributor and “feeling” for the next tooth in either direction.

I have marked the 12* mark and the pulley. When I turn the distributor to get the lines to match up that’s when it is fully advanced/ retarded. Maybe I can’t read the timing marks right?!

Here is a picture of my timing marks.. I’m assuming each tick mark is 4*

9795

[Burntboot]

Have you verified that the balancer is correct? (Zero mark is actually in the right place.)

To do so, with the engine at TDC #1 you have to verify that the #1 piston is at its highest point.
I use a wooden dowel thru the spark plug hole and rotate the crank until the zero lines up and watching the dowel while I turn the crank.
(Zero should be the place where the piston is at its highest point)

Once you verify that Zero really is zero, then you can proceed to setting timing.
It can be difficult sometimes but persistence usually pays off.

[Burntboot]

And if you use a dowel, please make sure its a long one.
Nothing worse than having a wooden stick fall down inside a cylinder
Better yet, grab a wooden spoon from the kitchen.

[Andywear]

And if you use a dowel, please make sure its a long one.
Nothing worse than having a wooden stick fall down inside a cylinder
Better yet, grab a wooden spoon from the kitchen.


Or a stiff piece of wire that is long, a metal coat hanger stretched out. :thmbup:

[Burntboot]

That can work too, I have even been known to use a long screwdriver in a pinch
However, I would never recommend that procedure to others, as it comes with many dangers.

Wire (and screwdrivers) are made of steel, pistons are aluminum and the steel will win the argument, EVERY time.

Nothing quite like getting wire jammed in between the top ring land and the cylinder wall, that experience REALLY sucks.
(BTDT2)

Wood, on the other hand, will just splinter and be a pita, but at least you won't be pulling the head and the pistons and.........