differential questions

[thegeeess]

hi all, new here,
On both my vans I have an E series diff. which is 7.1 inch ring gear and the axles are spline 24. If I change the axles to spline 27 will a F series 7.5 inch diff. fit into the housing? If not does anybody know what vehicles and year range came with the 7.1 spline 24 combo so I can look into the auto recyclers without limiting my search for parts to only vans?

[timsrv]

7.1" seems odd to me, but I'm not too familiar with 84-85 vans........so anything is possible. Just to verify we're talking the same language, the axle code is on the hump just below the front passenger's seat. There is a little piece of carpet that folds down to reveal this tag. I circled the part that indicates axle size and ratio:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/IMG_1496.jpg

In my example, axle code F282 is a 7.5" with a 4.300 ratio and 2 pinions. I am attaching a PDF of an axle code chart to help you (or others) identify.

If your van has a 7.5", then I believe the 2wd trucks from that era will have interchangeable differentials. If you have a 7.1" then I'm not sure what will fit or interchange. If that's the case, then a trip to the salvage yard would be my 1st course of action. I'd start checking axle codes on every RWD Toyota from that era until I found something compatible. If you go this route please keep us informed as to what you find so the next person with this problem will have more information to go on.

Thanks for posting and welcome to the forum! Tim

[thegeeess]

OK. With a lot of research and bookmarking I finally found a Toyota axle database. Cressidas from 72 thru 84 *except chassis code MX13* and vans with chassis code YR20 and YR21 carry an E series diff. I'm hoping to help out people either in trouble or gear heads who might want to upgrade their rear end. YR22 vans have the F series which is fairly common and we know about.
Here is the link to this really great resource. http://www.norbie.net/ToyotaAxle/
If I cant find an old cressida out here (probably not) I will post the axle pull and diff swap procedure in another post. Thanks!
Kenny

[timsrv]

That site looks useful. Thanks for posting. Tim

[slomoracing]

I looked through the forums and search pretty thoroughly (I think...) for the answer to this question but couldn't seem to find one.

Does the diff code (i.e. E282) mean that the axle is limited to only the E282 differential? Or if I purchased and entire F282 rear differential (ring and pinion) could it be installed into my axle house?

[originalkwyjibo]

There is actually a thread with the same title as yours only not capitalized that discusses this. It appears the axle spline count is different. Here's (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?695-differential-questions&highlight=F282) the link. I just searched the axle code.

[slomoracing]

Right on, thanks for attaching me to this thread. So it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong) that putting the 27 tooth axles into the housing will allow the use of a 7.5" diff... Which in the long run allows for a ARB air locker or a Detroit Locker!

Im looking to be able to take this whip around the country and to Baja, so traction is pretty essential.

[originalkwyjibo]

Ok I'm confused. Did I completely miss that you had posted to the very thread I linked you too(Cuz if I did I feel like a complete moron) or did the mods move your post? You seem genuinely thankful I directed you here so you must not have posted here originally.

As long as the axle housing is the same you should be able to swap parts. Of course if you can source one full of good parts it may prove easier to swap the whole axle housing as an assembly rather than dismantling two to assemble one.

[llamavan]

Ok I'm confused. Did I completely miss that you had posted to the very thread I linked you too(Cuz if I did I feel like a complete moron) or did the mods move your post? You seem genuinely thankful I directed you here so you must not have posted here originally.

I'm the one who moved it and I am definitely thankful that you provided the link. :thmbup: I usually have time to move things ... find the thread(s) first, not so much. :no:

Gwen

[slomoracing]

Thanks to both of you guys, I have a lead on a Cressida axle local to me, so hopefully it is still available. If I read this right, the Cressida axle should be almost plug and play? I can weld etc, but I'm always looking for a easier more solid option.

[originalkwyjibo]

I'm the one who moved it
Ah. I figured but usually you throw in a "I moved your post to a similar thread where it will get better exposure." or something along those lines.

[amcneill]

hey guys, i just finished my differential swap from an 85 2wd pickup into my 86 2wd van and it was completely plug and play, nothing needed to be changed. both axles had an F code differential, but i replaced my 4.10 gears with a 3.70

not sure what other vehicles may fit, but if youre looking for a new differential then i would say start looking at 2wd pickups of the same year!

[AD2101]

Hey guys, my problem is somewhat related but I'm hoping someone can help.

I recently pulled the axles out of my '88 trying to track down some rear end noise (giggity) that I've been having for months. I first thought it was the drums (wishful thinking), so I finally bit the bullet and pulled the axles to replace the bearing and seals. Both axles required use of a slide hammer to convince them to come out, but both did so without much fanfare. Upon reassembly, the driver's side axle went in easy enough, but the other side is not going in. It felt like I could get it to engage with the gears inside the differential a bit but would not go in. I gave it a few love-taps with a mallet hoping that was all it needed but gave up and pulled the axle before I got violent with it, and found this going on with the splines:

6833

6834

These splines are wider than the rest of the splines on the axle shaft, and appear to be what's stopping the axle from sliding in. Those little dents on the sides of the teeth are I believe what's holding me up, but at least give me an idea of how much material I need to remove. Also, it looks like a bit of the tip of the shaft is missing (giggity), does anyone know if this could possibly be from when it was originally machined at the factory or is there something in the differential that is eating away at the shaft?

Unless these shafts are the same used in 80's 4x4 trucks/4Runners, I have to make this one work. I've seen a couple of videos of people using angle grinders to even out the teeth, I imagine I could also use a metal file but it would be more time intensive. Does anyone have any ideas or experience with these issues?

[Burntboot]

AD - That damage looks consistent with pressing the old bearing/retainers off.
It's always best to cut them off with a dremel and chisel,

At this point I would clean it all up with a hand file as best you can, install it, say a little prayer, fill with gear oil and go for a test drive.
With luck the damage is limited to the splines and the axle isn't bent.
Good luck

[Burntboot]

Not to rain on the parade further but, if we're talking about the 4wd, you are into a specific bolt pattern, siblings all had 6 lugs, (IIRC)

[AD2101]

I know the software on these boards will automatically censor out any expletives I type, but just know that I'm using all of them right now.:pissed::pissed::pissed:

The thing is, I took this to a shop to have the old bearings removed and the new ones pressed in because I don't have a press and wanted "professionals" to do that part. I didn't take any before photos or pay much attention to it, because I really didn't think I had to, this was supposed to be a very reputable shop in town.

IF, and I will continue to pray to the van gods that it will only remain a hypothetical, the axle is bent, I'll know pretty quickly right? I assume there will be a terrible vibration/noise followed by a snap and a grown man crying?

[Burntboot]

Yes, if its bent, it will be obvious.

Sucks if a shop did that, but the fact the axle won't go in pretty much implies it wasn't like that previously or it wouldn't have come out.
(those mushroomed splines would not have slid out of the splines of the side gears)

Is it worth paying them a visit prior to cleaning it up, so they can see the issue first hand, they may have a better solution?

[timsrv]

Yes, I agree that was almost certainly a mistake made by the press operator...........and I'm sure their press and/or one of their pressing tools will perfectly match that mark. The thing with dents in solid steel is the material has to go somewhere, and it looks like it mushroomed out the end of those splines. That area now sticks out further (bigger diameter) and will need some careful grinding, filing and/or machining to get it cleaned up. Fortunately the very end of the splines is not a critical surface, so your main objective in grinding/machining is to remove said material so it can slide past. I would be surprised if they bent the axle, but it takes an enormous amount of force to damage it like that (so who knows). Hopefully they will make this right somehow......but would be hard trusting them after seeing what they did there. Stuff does happen, but it's hard to imagine an attentive professional not realizing it and taking some sort of corrective action.

When it comes to replacing press-fit axle bearings I have always sacrificed the old by grinding a flat spot and using a chisel to break. I have also only used the "hot oil bath" method to install the new. I'm not necessarily against the press method (at least not until now), I just don't have a press, and don't like trusting others with things I care about (at least not when it comes to things I can do myself). Good luck and please keep us posted. Tim

[AD2101]

Thanks BB and Tim for the information and the little bit of optimism there Tim about possibly just the ends of the splines getting messed up rather than the whole axle being bent. I have Wednesday off so I'll be back at it again spending the morning carefully filing away until I can *hopefully* get the axle back in and report back.

In regards to the shop, I'll have to sleep on it to see what I'll do about them but honestly, I don't expect much. I don't care about a refund for the bearing press "service," as it's small potatoes next to having a 3 wheeled van sitting on jack stands in my parents' driveway that's now useless. The refund is even a stretch, it's not one of those shops you go to for the stellar customer service, the only reason you go there is because the old timers there really know their stuff.

Can axles be straightened? I'm not seeing anything in the aftermarket for these and I imagine these are long since NLA from Toyota, and finding a 4x4 in a yard would be a small miracle out here.

[Burntboot]

I am willing to bet the axle is okay, but the warning needs to be out there.

LOTS of places do it the "wrong" way, in fact, that's how I was originally TAUGHT!
And yes, for those keeping track, I learned that one the hard way, too!

Most of the time it works as intended, but if the axle isn't square in the press or something slips out of place, the downforce is not applied at right angles.
Then the bearings hangs up instead of pushing off, the flange is held tight and the downforce is now being applied at an increasing angle of attack, its the length of the axle that acts as a lever, in reference to the flange face.
If the operator is really lucky is just squirts out the side of the press and bounces across the floor, but it can deform the axle prior to popping out.

As far as straightening, I wouldn't consider that an option, even if you could find someone capable of doing the work.
A load sufficient to bend an axle is also going to cause a weakness at that very spot, failure would present as the wheel separating from the vehicle when side loads are greatest,say like during cornering..... Not a diserable condition to find oneself in.

You should take a good look at the wheel studs, they are a lot easier to clean up/replace while the axle is out.
Take a close look at the sides of the studs, close to the flange.
Some operators will use the studs as the pressing face but that always ends badly as the studs can push out prior to the bearing ass'y letting go.
Others will spread the plates to support the flange just outboard of the studs and while safer, stud dings are more probable.

I agree that refunding the install labour isn't worth the time it takes to ask the question, however, if you consider a worst case scenario, replacing the axle (new or used), installing another new bearing, retainer and seal, it will get expensive fast.

[AD2101]

Well it was a stressful day but the van is back on all 4 wheels, sitting in my driveway, and (another) crisis appears to have been averted! :dance1::dance1::dance1:

After taking yesterday to reflect and plan, I got up bright and early this morning, had a good breakfast, and drove over to my parents' house to get started on the splines. I used a hand file and a small Dremel with the thinnest wheel I could find. I started by removing the material on the side of the teeth that had dents on it, which indicated to me that they were the splines interfering with the inner teeth of the differential and keeping the shaft from going in any further. I used a hand file to remove any excess material that would have messed with the diameter of the shaft.

After a round of this, I was able to get the shaft to go in about 10 - 15mm before getting hung up again, progress! I pulled the axle, looked to see where down the splines it was getting caught up now, smoothed it out with the Dremel, and tried again. This time, I got it to the point where the bearing was up against the axle housing. With the finish line in sight, I gave it a few quick final zips with the Dremel, got the backing plate and drum assembly hanging off of the studs, and got the shaft back into position.

My dad and I said a little prayer to the van gods, I grabbed the rubber mallet, yelled the battle cry of my generation, which I guess is "send it" now (What was wrong with YOLO?), and the shaft slid the rest of the way in after two generous love-taps. A wave of relief washed over me and my dad, although I was still worried about the shaft possibly being bent.

After reassembling the drums, torquing everything down, bleeding the brakes, and adding fresh diff fluid it was time for the test drive. The van started right up like nothing ever happened and drove down the street as smooth and as straight as it ever did, no wobbles or vibration to indicate a bent shaft. The noise I was chasing back there appears to be gone, but there is a slight "ssshhhh" sound coming from the rear driver side wheel. You can really only hear it if you're back there, the old noise was pretty audible from anywhere in the van when in motion. I noticed that most of my wheel weights are missing on that wheel so maybe that has something to do with this slight noise? Oh well, that's for another day I'm just going to enjoy this victory for a minute before I dive back in.

As far as the shop that did this goes, I'm going to explain my experience in a Google review, never go there again, and leave it at that. Thinking about it, the botched job itself doesn't bother me as much as how they took my money upon delivery, didn't mention anything, and let me walk out of the store with a part they had to have known they messed up. I'm walking proof that sh*t happens, but I always try to own my mistakes. To just send a customer on his way without disclosing that was what made me decide to find another shop in the future.

TL;DR
If your axle splines get goofed up like mine did, a Dremel with the thinnest wheel you can find, a good hand file, and patience are your friends. Remove as little material as possible, check to make sure that not only are the spline teeth spaced properly, but that their diameter is equal to the other non-goofed splines. If you're going to have a shop remove and press new bearings, take before photos and closely inspect the splines prior to leaving the shop.

Thanks again BB and Tim, hopefully, no one else here will have to go through something like this.

[timsrv]

:dance2: :thmbup:

[PearlVan]

hi all, new here,
On both my vans I have an E series diff. which is 7.1 inch ring gear and the axles are spline 24. If I change the axles to spline 27 will a F series 7.5 inch diff. fit into the housing? If not does anybody know what vehicles and year range came with the 7.1 spline 24 combo so I can look into the auto recyclers without limiting my search for parts to only vans?

I'm going to answer this. The answer is No. I just tried. Went to junkyard and got a. F series differential and the 27 spline axles. The F series diff is bigger and does not fit in the E series axle housing. This thread led me to believe this was a possibility, but it is not compatible, in case anyone else is going to try.

[PearlVan]

Right on, thanks for attaching me to this thread. So it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong) that putting the 27 tooth axles into the housing will allow the use of a 7.5" diff... Which in the long run allows for a ARB air locker or a Detroit Locker!

Im looking to be able to take this whip around the country and to Baja, so traction is pretty essential.

This is the post that led me to believe that a 7.5in differential will fit into an E series housing. It will not :pissed:

The 7.1in ring and pinion are damn hard to find. They cone on cressida wagons but those dont surface in junkyards often and neither do 84/85 vans. My next thought is to pull a coil sprung axle housing off a 86-89 van and hope it fits without modification on my 1984 van. Anyone know if this will work?

[cornell]

This is the post that led me to believe that a 7.5in differential will fit into an E series housing. It will not :pissed:

The 7.1in ring and pinion are damn hard to find. They cone on cressida wagons but those dont surface in junkyards often and neither do 84/85 vans. My next thought is to pull a coil sprung axle housing off a 86-89 van and hope it fits without modification on my 1984 van. Anyone know if this will work?


I would also like to know this. I want to put in a LSD or air locker but after a day of research it's pretty much impossible unless I have an F-type rear diff (7.5" ring). In theory I think pulling the rear axle housing off an 86-89 would work to set up an F282 differential but damn, what a lot of work to get a little bonus traction :no:

@PearlVan, did you ever pursue this further?

[PearlVan]

I ended up finding a 1984 van in the junkyard and taking the differential from it and installing it in mine. Bearings were toast so I took it out again and replaced them and rebuilt the differential per the manual and some youtube videos. Not an easy job but it saved me $1,000. Would not want to do it again, but so far the used differential has been serving me well after a rebuild. The whole axle swap route seemed appealing, and probably easier than rebuilding the diff, but I never found a coil sprung van axle from 86-89 anywhere to use. Inevitably there may have been issues of compatibility that required fabrication, but I never did it so I don't know. Maybe it wouldve been plug and play.

[kamesama980]

Usually coil springs and control arms vs leaf springs requires different mounts on the axles. that means grinding and welding. that means complete disassembly not plug n play.

[PearlVan]

I realize that, I was referring to whether the coil and control arm mounts from a 1986-89 axle are in the same locations as a 1984-85 axle.