...are 2wd/4wd transmissions interchangeable ????.......

[micah202]

....I've been advertising for 'parts-vans' on CL,,,got a bite with a 4x4 auto,,which is said to need transmission rebuild...

....I understand they're different than trannies for 2wd,which I have sitting in my storage.,with an engine.
....or is there a creative way to use my engine/tranny there?

...all the best.....m

[timsrv]

These transmissions (A44DL 2wd, & A45DF 4wd) are basically the same. All the internals and the cases are the same with the exception of the tail shafts and the tail shaft housings (A45DF has a stubby shaft and housing to facilitate mounting of the transfer case). So technically you could swap these parts but it would require almost a complete tear-down of both transmissions to do so. If you were going to tear into one that far (let alone 2), it would probably make more sense to just rebuild the A45DF..........at least then everything would be fresh and new.

As for the engine, all 4y van engines are completely interchangeable, so if you wanted to swap engines this would be pretty straight forward. When it comes to external sensors, injectors, etc, there are some changes throughout the years, but that's easily remedied by simply swapping these parts over from your old engine.

If you're reworking an automatic transmission for a 4wd, upgrading to a 2 speed transfer case is worth consideration. If you can find a 2 speed case from a manual 4wd, this is the way to go. When it comes to mounting, these transfer cases are identical except the input shafts (spline count is different). You can however open them up and swap input shafts. Once the automatic input shaft is installed the 2 speed case can be mated to the automatic transmission. Of course you will also need to have a way to shift speeds, so it helps if you have a donor 5-speed van to rob the shifter and cables off of. I'm sure there are ways to fabricate a shifter/linkage set-up, but swapping parts over is a lot easier. Good luck with finding the perfect van. Personally I think I'd hold-out for another 5-speed 4wd in decent shape. They are out there, but can take a while to find. Tim

[micah202]

yeh,Tim,,still looking for that 'right' woman too!! :wnk:
...if you know of any 'all-terrain' gals,,good on gas,,like's t'carry a lot,,and sometimes go fast......:)

if I had that manual-trans donor-van,,,just how craaaaazy would it be to convert an automatic to being standard,,considering that at least the transmission and transfer-case would already be removed??

....I've also got a lead on one o'those,,good mechanically,,but body bad,,,'de-certified'

[timsrv]

Here's a good read for anybody considering these type of major mods: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?326-converting-2wd-to-4wd. There's a link in my 1st post in that thread that gets into what you're talking about. Enjoy :)>: Tim

[micah202]

Here's a good read for anybody considering these type of major mods: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?326-converting-2wd-to-4wd. There's a link in my 1st post in that thread that gets into what you're talking about. Enjoy :)>: Tim

..oh sorry,,,I was wondering about 2 4x4's-- one automatic with good body,,the other is standard with good mechanics,,,bad body,,but I guess a topic's a topic:)

[timsrv]

Yeah, the title is a bit confusing but the information is in there. Here's a quote from the link I was referring to:


Swapping in a manual transmission is possible, but it's a big job in itself. If you are going to do it anyhow it would save time to do it now, but considering all that's involved, you may wish to wait. The best way to make that swap is to have a 5 speed donor van to rob parts off of. In addition to the transmission, you will need shift cables, the gear shift mount bracket and shift mechanisms. Then there's the clutch pedal with associated linkage, the clutch master cylinder and the slave cylinder. You will also need all the hydraulic plumbing, the flywheel, pressure plate, pilot bearing, throw-out bearing, clutch fork, etc. And don't forget the wire harness under the dash and in the engine compartment is different as well. Then there's the clutch safety switch and vans that weren't originally equipped with manual transmissions don't even have the mounting bracket for that under the dash. There is also the starter relay mounted in the engine compartment (manual transmissions have them, automatics don't) Then of course there will be the need for different drive shafts (both front and rear) because manual transmissions have a different length than automatics do.

Is a manual transmission swap possible? Yes it is. Is it time consuming and labor intensive? Yes it is. Is it worth it? That depends. If you pay a reputable mechanic to do the job, probably not. If you have the aptitude and desire to do yourself, then it can be a rewarding project. I have toyed with the idea myself and I will most likely do it someday. I have everything I need except the time. Even if I had the time, I wouldn't dream of tackling a job like this without a donor van, so I'd recommend you find one of those 1st, clear your plate of other projects, then tackle this mod.

FWIW, this has been done before by at least one person that I know of. A good alternative to an all-out transmission swap would be to swap your transfer case only with a 2 speed t-case from a 5 speed van. This is a pretty straight forward swap and won't take nearly the time or effort of a complete transmission change-over. Good luck with your project and please report back with your progress. If possible, please take lots of pics and post them here. Tim

[micah202]

Yeah, the title is a bit confusing but the information is in there. Here's a quote from the link I was referring to:

..hmm,,suddenly I'm -liking- the idea of a 4x4 with automatic:wnk:
...a few things in the works right now,,,see what happens!

[gushaman]

For the record I have attempted an "output shaft swap" for the purpose of putting a 2wd trans in a 4wd van. I am pretty mechanically inclined (engine rebuild and swap, doing all my own maintenance and repairs on my vans) and the auto trans was just a little too out of my league. I tried to put it back together almost 20 times with new plates and discs and everything, and it was always sticking out just a few MM too far for the pump to seat properly. I ended up losing my beloved van because I couldnt afford to pay over $1000 for someone else to do it.:wall::wall::wall::wall::swear::bdmd::cry::cry: :pissed::doh::cry:

[micah202]

For the record I have attempted an "output shaft swap" for the purpose of putting a 2wd trans in a 4wd van. I am pretty mechanically inclined (engine rebuild and swap, doing all my own maintenance and repairs on my vans) and the auto trans was just a little too out of my league. I tried to put it back together almost 20 times with new plates and discs and everything, and it was always sticking out just a few MM too far for the pump to seat properly. I ended up losing my beloved van because I couldnt afford to pay over $1000 for someone else to do it.:wall::wall::wall::wall::swear::bdmd::cry::cry: :pissed::doh::cry:

...ouch,,,ahh feeel youuuur PAIN!!!:dizzy:

[timsrv]

Both the 2wd and 4wd manual transmissions are designated as G53. They are basically the same transmission, but the tail shafts & rear housings are different. So if you're looking for a replacement be sure to specify a 2wd G53. Tim

[isaac]

Hi, So i just finished a 4 day engine swap on an '87 4x4 manual cargo-van. I Also intended to swap transmissions and replace the clutch as my previous transmission was jumping out of 1st gear. The engine swap went hassle free, but when i inspected the rebuilt transmission i had lined up i realized it is for the 2WD van not the 4x4 and thus has the different rear end/ longer spindle not suitable for the 4x4's transfer case. I got the rebuilt transmission for a deal from a guy in wisconsin, so now i'm wondering if its worth tearing them both down and putting the transfer case on the rebuilt 2WD Tranny or if i should send it back and find someone to rebuilt my 4x4 tranny. Also is there a step by step on transmission rebuilding? I have 1/2 of my peers telling me rebuilding a tranny is a nightmare and 1/2 saying i could do it in a day, no sweat. so i guess these are my options:
1. swap 4x4 transfer-case over to rebuilt 2WD transmission
2. return 2WD transmission and order rebuild kit for 4x4 transmission (do 4x4 transmission rebuild myself)
3. return 2WD transmission and send 4x4 transmission out to be professionally rebuilt

Any information on the process/ tools necesary for a transmission rebuild or conversion (2wd to 4wd) would be awesome!
thanks!
-isaac

[ratatouille]

Isaac...any update on what you ended up doing? I'm also curious about the tranny rebuild and also have heard mixed comments...

[LallyTrek]

Hey guys, I have a couple of related transmission question...

Is the 5 speed shifter set-up (cable, brackets on transmission) the same on a 2wd 5 speed tranny and a 4wd 5 speed tranny?

Is the G53 4wd VAN trans different then a G53 4wd trans from other vehicles, or can the shifter cables and linkage be attached to any old G53 transmission?

I can't find a 4wd 5 speed donor van but I can find a 2wd 5 speed and a G53 from another truck. Can the shifter set up from a 2wd 5 speed van and the G53 from a pick up be enough for the auto to manual swap in a van? I know I need clutch pedal, wiring harness, etc, but I just need clarification on the shifter set up on the vans at the moment.

Thanks!

[timsrv]

I personally haven't swapped these parts from a 2wd to a 4wd, but I looked up each in the EPC and found both share the same part numbers for the shift lever assembly (transmission) and both transmission shift cables. I also can't say if any other applications from other 4wd vehicles will work on the van, but based on experience, I think you'll find that most 4wd van parts are "van specific". Thankfully the locking hubs are an exception and you can use hubs from the same era of IFS Toyota trucks & 4-runners. I did do a cross-reference check and found transmission shift cables and the shifter lever assy to not be used on any other Toyota vehicles.

Ref:
Toyota van 5 speed shift lever #33503-28070 (just the stick)
Toyota van 5 speed shift cable #1 #33821-28011
Toyota van 5 speed shift cable #2 #33822-28011

Thanks for posting in an existing thread & your help in keeping TVT organized! Tim

[LallyTrek]

Thanks for doing the detective work with those part numbers, Tim. Good to know the shift cable seems to be the same. Silly question though, what is an EPC?

And does anyone have a 2wd or 4x4 5 speed on their garage floor that they could snap a photo of for me? I want a better look at the shifting linkage? I'm trying to figure out just what is actually going on with the shift mechanism on these vans. What does that cable attach to on the transmission? How does that piece that the cable attaches to attach do the tranny? I might run by the Yota dealer to see if they can show me an exploded view of the transmission parts to get a better idea.

[timsrv]

EPC is Electronic Parts Catalog. It's what Toyota uses to look up parts for you when you need something. I have an older bootlegged version of it I use to look up van parts.

[JDM VANMAN]

Both the 2wd and 4wd manual transmissions are designated as G53. They are basically the same transmission, but the tail shafts & rear housings are different. So if you're looking for a replacement be sure to specify a 2wd G53. Tim

Tim,

would you happen to know if the 2WD manual transmission is the same for all van years 84-89 for both 3Y and 4Y motors?

The reason I'm asking is I have a friend in Montana that I met 2years ago when he made a van adventure to Seattle, he just developed a issue in his Nov 84' manual tranny van and needs to replace it and was trying to figure of if one from other years would work?

Thank you:thmbup:

[timsrv]

I know there are some differences from the early transmissions to the later ones, but not sure what they might be. I suspect gear ratios are the same and I know they will both bolt up to a 3y or a 4y. What I'm not sure about is overall length and/or tail shaft splines. There must be some sort of change here as there are different drive lines used in 84 - 85. 86 - 89 2wd 5 speed vans used a different drive shaft. It's not just a u-joint change either because even the aftermarket drive lines have different part numbers.

I wish I had more specific information, but I never got into the 84 - 85 vans (so I don't have anything here for physical comparison). If I had an 84 - 85 5-speed van that needed a transmission I wouldn't hesitate to pick-up and install one from an 86 - 89. If there was a difference that wouldn't allow use of the old shaft, I'd just get the newer style shaft. If the mount didn't match, I'd fabricate something to make it work. If he doens't have the time or money for that, then it's probably best to narrow the search for the earlier transmission. Tim

For more drive shaft information check this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?35-Drive-shafts-and-u-joints&highlight=driveline

Note: 84 - 85 manual transmission vans had rear differentials with 43:11 (3.909) gear ratio. 86 - 89 manual transmission vans had 41:10 (4.1) gear ratio. However, stock tire size for 84 - 85 vans was 185-75R 14. The 86 - 89 tires were 195-75R 14. I believe the difference in tire size is enough to cancel out the change in gear ratio's.

[JDM VANMAN]

Thank you for the quick and thorough response, this will get him started in the right direction:thmbup:

Thank you!!

[Dieselharley]

1989 Toyota 4x4 automatic , reverse and 4th pretty much out. Will a 2wd tranny for the same year be compatible? Will I be able to pull the tail shaft and pot the transfer case portion on it. If so what do I need to address as I do this? Thanks

[timsrv]

Here's a link to another thread where this has been discussed in detail. Good luck! Tim

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2241-manual-transmission-rebuild-info