Testing fuel system / replacing fuel pressure regulator

[timsrv]

For testing the fuel system I'm using Harbor Freight's cheap Injector Pump Test Kit (http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injection-pump-tester-62623.html). The van I'm testing is an 89 2wd cargo van. I'm troubleshooting a hard start problem. Van requires excessive cranking (about 5 seconds or so) for each start.

This kit is a real bargain for just $19.99 :) .
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/01IMG_8999.jpg

The arrows point to the parts I'm using.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/02IMG_9000.jpg

Here is a cold start injector line I took off one of my parts vans.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/03IMG_9001.jpg

I cut one end off and put the 1st half of a double flare in it using a 3/16" flare tool.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/04IMG_9002.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/05IMG_9004.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/06IMG_9005.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/07IMG_9006.jpg

Having that barb on the end is important because the injector line is significantly smaller than the brass adaptor I'm splicing it to. I center the clamp over the barb to ensure a tight seal.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/08IMG_9007.jpg

Oddly enough, this pressure gauge uses a pipe thread. I apply Teflon tape to prevent a fuel leak.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/09IMG_9008.jpg

Yippee! I have my very own custom Toyota van fuel pressure gauge :dance2: !
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/10IMG_9009.jpg

Next I open my hood and remove the cold start injector line from the injector manifold.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/11IMG_9010.jpg

I attach my gauge to the injector manifold.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/12IMG_9012.jpg

Next I find my fuel pump test connector and pull it up where it's accessible
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/13IMG_9014.jpg

Here's my handy dandy jumper wire :)>: .
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/14IMG_9015.jpg

I plug it into the test connector and jump the terminals together.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/15IMG_9016.jpg

Next step is to turn the ignition switch to the "run" position (DO NOT START). Now I can check the pressure in the injector manifold. Pressure should be 38-44 psi. Assuming the gauge is accurate, it looks like I have a bad regulator. High pressure can only be a bad regulator. If pressure was low, it could be a bad fuel pump, clogged fuel filter, or a bad regulator. Warning: Gasoline is very flammable. If you have any leaks STOP the test immediately and repair them before continuing!
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/16IMG_9017.jpg

Next step is to remove the jumper wire from the "fuel pump test connector", then remove the vacuum line from the fuel regulator and plug the vacuum supply line. These little rubber vacuum plugs come in handy for this.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/18IMG_9020.jpg

Okay, it's done. Here's a view from underneath.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/19IMG_9021.jpg

Next step is to start the engine and run for at least 2 minutes. After the 2 minutes is up, record fuel pressure (should be 30 - 33 PSI while idling). If high, the only thing it can be is a bad regulator. Of course, we already know it's bad :evil: .
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/17IMG_9018.jpg

Next I'll do the leak-down test (premature loss of pressure after shut-down). This is done by removing the jumper wire from the "fuel pump test connector" and watching to see if pressure remains. Fuel pressure should stay above 21 PSI for at least 5 min. If the pressure drops below 21 PSI in less than 5 minutes, then it could be a bad check valve at the fuel pump, a bad regulator, leaky injector(s), or an external leak in the system. The service manual says to do this at the end of the above "idling test", but I chose to do it with the jumper wire test instead (doesn't make any difference) Let's see what happens. Click on image below to view video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn5Nwj-20ZI

Well, as far as my regulator is concerned, it's a good thing I picked one up ahead of time. The only question I have now is what component(s) are responsible for the failed leak-down test. I'm hoping like heck that problem lies entirely within my regulator (remember, that problem can also be caused by a bad pump, leaky injector(s), or an external leak). Time to break out the new regulator and hope this solves everything!
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/20IMG_9023.jpg

For you 2wd van owners, here's the bugger as viewed from underneath (you 4wd van owners have my condolences :bdmd:). Before you do anything else, remove the 10mm bolt that holds the metal bypass pipe to the intake manifold. This will give you just enough room to squeak by with the other things you need to do here. Next use a 12mm box end wrench to remove the fuel line banjo fitting. Be ready for some gas to drip down. After the banjo fitting is removed, it's time to remove the (2) 10mm mount screws.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/21IMG_9026.jpg

I'm using a 1/4" drive ratchet, some long extensions, and a 10mm socket here. After the mount screws are off, the regulator will pull down and out. It will most likely be followed by another oz. or 2 of gasoline, so take the necessary precautions. My regulator was stubborn, so I reached up there with a long nose pair of vice grips to remove.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/22IMG_9027.jpg

Once off, inspect the mount area to be sure it's free of debris. Especially check the mounting hole and verify no parts of the old o-ring remain.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/IMG_9032.jpg

Lube up the o-ring and shaft of the new regulator with petroleum jelly to help it slide smoothly into place.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/23IMG_9025.jpg

Now put it all back together again. Make sure the new regulator is seated all the way up and it is sitting flat before installing mount screws. Don't forget to put your bypass pipe mount bolt back in.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/23IMG_9039.jpg

Okay, now for the moment of truth. Keep your fingers crossed! click on image below to view video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlDr0GvoQwE

:dance1: :dance1: :dance1: Looks like my hunch was right. Thank goodness I don't need to pull my fuel pump out (this thing has taken enough of my time lately). Tim

Note: This fuel regulator is listed for 88-89 vans and is Toyota Part # 23280-73040. At the time of this post the MSRP on this is $172.40, but it can be had for around $125.00 from one of those discount internet sites like www.1stToyotaParts.com.

[joegri]

hi timsrv that was a beatiful piece of work ya did !!! and best of all we,ill be able to find it anytime here on tvt. i for one am glad to have a tech on board that makes good pics (complete with arrows) and easy to understand text. thanx timsrv. yer work here does,nt go unnoticed!

[timsrv]

Thank you :). It's awesome to be able to do this. In the past too many things were lost and too many links broken. Now with TVT that is finally behind us. I'd like to extend a big thank you to those of you who have donated (and continue to donate) to the site. It's really the combined efforts of all Toyota van enthusiasts that make this possible. The Library needs a lot more work, but it's slowly starting to take shape. It's our goal to be one of the best organized car sites out there. Just check out the EFI section (https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/content.php?138-EFI-System) of the TVT Van service manual. It keeps getting better and better and we're gaining momentum. Keep the tech questions coming and We'll keep working to provide everyone with detailed and comprehensive answers. :wave2: Tim

Here's links to some other related threads:

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?821-Replacing-Fuel-Injector(s)

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?522-Other-parts-to-replace-while-replacing-Head-Gasket&p=3233#post3233

[Reducto]

Sorry to hijack an old thread - could high fuel pressure cause a van to run very rich? Fuel pressure is one of the only things I haven't checked. I know the shop did a leakdown test but I did not think to ask them what the pressure was.

Also, are there adapters you can buy to allow this to plug in directly? I do not have an extra cold start line or a flare tool.

It looks like this one MIGHT have the right adapter but I can't be sure:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009XQUKC/

[timsrv]

Sorry to hijack an old thread - could high fuel pressure cause a van to run very rich? Fuel pressure is one of the only things I haven't checked. I know the shop did a leakdown test but I did not think to ask them what the pressure was.

Also, are there adapters you can buy to allow this to plug in directly? I do not have an extra cold start line or a flare tool.

It looks like this one MIGHT have the right adapter but I can't be sure:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009XQUKC/

Not really, at least not if the rest of the EFI system is working correctly. The ECU monitors the o2 sensor(s) and will adjust fuel mix based on that. If an o2 sensor is bad or there is a related fault with wiring or the ECU, then more pressure might make it run a tiny bit richer, but probably not enough to notice.

It looks like there's a banjo fitting in that kit, but hard to tell if it's the correct size.

As to your running rich issue, perhaps you have a stuck or leaky injector. Have you had these checked? Tim

[coronan]

I would just like to say its always worth checking amazon for car parts.

Fuel pressure Regulator

BWD 21831 @ Oriley = $109
GP Sorensen/Fuel Pressure Regulator (http://www.autozone.com/fuel-delivery/fuel-pressure-regulator/gp-sorensen-fuel-pressure-regulator/toyota/van-4wd/1987/4-cylinders-y-2-2l-fi/79917_594834_0/) 800-145 @ Auto Zone = $109BECK/ARNLEY 1580197 @ Rock Auto = $44


BECK/ARNLEY 1580197 @ Amazon with 2 day Shipping = $ 11
:dance2:

Add 1 day shipping: = $4!!!!

:dance2::dance2::dance2:
I cant afford to not have one.

[timsrv]

Aftermarket FPR's are much cheaper, but I've used 2 different brands with bad results. About a year ago I found a killer deal on OE Denso FPRs. I just checked the link and see it's still good. Here's a quote from that post:


BTW, there's a killer deal on Genuine Denso OE regulators on eBay right now (I just bought 8 of them). The guy was selling for only $35 each, but after I ended 2 of his auctions he raised the price to $45 :rol:. Here's a link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYOSAN-DENSO-MADE-IN-JAPAN-FUEL-PRESSURE-REGULATOR-TOYOTA-23280-73040-/251810375767?vxp=mtr (and yes, I have received and verified they are OE Denso regulators). Tim

If you click on the blue arrow in that quote (next to my name) it will take you to that thread where you can see close up pics of the FPRs I received.

Beck Arnley usually buys in bulk from multiple sources. Occasionally they sell surplus OE stuff. So there's a chance you'll get OE Denso too. When it comes to FPRs, I learned the hard way to only trust OE.........even though they are stupid expensive (through Toyota). That's why I went nuts and got so many of the ones on eBay. Good luck with the BA FPR. Please post to let us know what you get. I'm hoping you get OE. Tim

[coronan]

Trouble shooting hard starting.

Fuel pump on only = 37 psi
Engine running = 33 psi
engine running w/ vacuum line disconnected = 38 psi
Bleed down after sitting 5 min = 35 psi

Van starts quickly with the throttle open.

Thoughts?

[timsrv]

Trouble shooting hard starting.

Fuel pump on only = 37 psi
Engine running = 33 psi
engine running w/ vacuum line disconnected = 38 psi
Bleed down after sitting 5 min = 35 psi

Van starts quickly with the throttle open.

Thoughts?

Your FPR sounds good (84 - 87 vans spec out lower psi than 88 - 89). To help combat heat soak, I put the later FPRs & Dampers on all my vans (even the early ones). Unless you only have a problem with hot starts (under classic heat soak conditions), I don't think replacing the FPR will help. Have you checked codes?

[coronan]

3200
Here is the $11 FPR.
The only markings on it say "?10ADAD"

Going in the spares for now.

[pinkgrips236]

Any online sources for the banjo line?

I'd like to replicate the Harbor Freight testing scenario, but don't know of any willing donor vans.

This one is online for a truck (http://www.ebay.com/itm/89-95-Toyota-Truck-4Runner-FUEL-LINE-to-COLD-START-INJECTOR-3VZE-V6-2390165010-/351650075360?hash=item51dffa52e0:g:9uYAAOSwQYZWugp s&vxp=mtr), and another for a celica (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Supra-MK3-1987-92-Cold-Start-Injector-7mgte-OEM-mA70-/221935065442?hash=item33ac5c5962:g:vPsAAOSwgQ9V61o o&vxp=mtr). Maybe close enough? I'm just looking for the line currently.

Thanks folks!

[timsrv]

I believe what you need is an * M8 X 8 MM banjo to barb fitting. These appear to be hard to find, but there's a listing on eBay that lists one this size (when you end the auction you request the size you want and he'll ship). If you get it, please let us know if it works.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GROOVE-STEP-BANJO-EYE-UNION-NYLONE-DIESAL-FUEL-BRAKE-LINE-HOSE-FITTINGS-HYDROLIC-/331603521344?var=&hash=item4d351c2f40:m:mR0u759eEwTfTbnqf5u5lGQ&vxp=mtr

Another option might be to find a fitting like Kwik Kwak did in this post over on TVP: http://www.toyotavanpeople.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5255&p=46542#p46542

[pinkgrips236]

I just put an order in for a few. In the meantime, the van when from cranking and not starting to starting with no problem, which is a plus.

I also picked up one of these (https://www.belmetric.com/bnjbend845-banjo-elbow-fitting-p-5402.html?cPath=14_850_932) in an attempt to flare the end and go that direction. The shipping was fast, especially compared to the estimated month is will take to get the M8 8mm fitting in from the UK. Spoiled by amazon prime I suppose.

Now I need to pick up a flaring tool and continue to build the tool collection...

[Sam_Slaby]

I just replaced my FPR and found it to be very challenging. Removing the 10mm bolt holding the bypass line in place didn't allow me to easily move the line out of the way. I had to use a crow bar to bend them out of the way. Even then, I could just *barely* get a socket on the outboard 10mm fastener holding the FPR in place. Also found it impossible to get both of the brass/copper banjo bolt washers back on in that extremely tight space. So far no leaks.

[AD2101]

Any online sources for the banjo line?


Anyone come up with a (relatively) cost-effective and (relatively) obtainable solution to this problem? There is no hope of finding a cold start injector line for a van locally, and the M8 X 8 MM banjo fittings are way too expensive online for what they are and for the ones I found I'm not even really sure that they're the right size.

I google'd the SST number that the manual calls for to do the job (SST 09268-45012) and it also seems to be the same SST called for in at least 2nd gen 4Runners and similar vintage T-100s/Tacomas (with the 3.0 V6), as well as 97-03 Siennas, 90's Celicas (the 4A–FE and 5S–FE variants), and I'm sure a lot of others. My logic is that, if all these different vehicles use the same SST, then they should also have the same size banjo fittings. Of course, the SST could be swappable at the fitting end, but it doesn't mention anything like "use X fitting on SST," or the like in either the Van FSM or the Celica FSM so I'm going to assume that they're the same.

I'm going to go to the yard next weekend and scour the Toyota section until I can find a banjo line I can get to and test this theory out. I bought my Harbor Freight test kit today (still $19.99 after all these years, $15 w/ their 25% coupon), trying to diagnose a hard start issue on both my 86 van as well as my 87 4Runner.

[NickP]

Greetings,

I didn't have access to a spare cold-start injector pipe so I bought a few banjo fittings from belmetric.com ($6.89 each). I made the fuel pressure gauge adapter and have extras in case I want to make a hose to test the cold-start injector. Works great!

https://www.belmetric.com/eye-fittings-for-rubber-hose-c-1041_855_1135/bnjf856ylw-banjo-eye-fitting-p-12169.html


9051
9052

[iq_artwork]

I'm looking to buy a OEM Fuel Pressure Regulator for my van.
Is the part #23280-7310 FPR discontinued? or is there another FPR with a different part number will fitting in our vans?

thanks

[timsrv]

Yes, unfortunately this is yet another discontinued part now. If you go to eBay and type in "toyota van fuel pressure regulator" you will get many listings for aftermarket regulators. Some are pretty cheap and some are almost as expensive as the OEM (back when you could still get it). If I had to guess, I'm thinking some of these probably aren't bad, but some are junk. The problem is going to be figuring out which is which.

About 7 years ago I experimented with a couple different aftermarket FPR's and neither lasted for more than a few months. I should have kept track of the brands and type of failure I experienced, but I failed to do that (sorry). I did have a contaminated fuel system at the time though, so that could have led to their early demise. I finally found an eBay listing for Denso #020010-1060 OE Identical FPR's and that did the trick. I've been using that same one for ~ 6 years/85k miles with no issues. Sadly, I just searched for that one and couldn't find anything. BTW, 89 Vans used FPR's that put out slightly higher pressure. They did that to combat the heat soak issue, so regardless of what year van you have, I would buy a regulator for an 89. Since they also changed the FPD (Fuel Pulsation Damper), if you go with the 89 FPR, I'd also recommend replacing the FPD with one made for an 89 at the same time. Tim

[iq_artwork]

Thank you Tim for your quick a great answer! I read some of your old posts about the aftermarket FPR and I decided to go with an OEM FPR, if I can find one.

I looked online and unfortunately the '89 FPR #23280-73040 is discontinued as well :(
https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~regulator~assy~fuel~pressure~23280-73040.html

I was able to find the Fuel Pressure Pulsation #23270-73010 https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~damper~assy~fuel~pressure~pulsation~23270-73010.html

[phychotron]

My van died the other night going up a hill it came to a sluggish stop. I pulled over and there was no throttle response- low 500rpm idle. Turned it off, waited 5 minites and it started and revved fine. Was gutless and went back to no throttle response. Towed home.

My first thought is the fuel filter ive been meaning to replace for some 60k miles since i got the van - I finally got the thin wall socket to get the filter off (over tightened bracket clamp blocking bolt that held it to engine). I take it off and no pressure or fuel comes out the top line like I expected. The fuel i shake out the bottom is brown and lots of particulate.

New filter, I jumped the fuel pump wire and can hear a click in the dash/fuse area but hear no fuel pump hum. Still no start. Does this sound like the pump? do i need to do a pressure test or shoud i assume the pump isnt working? if i drop the tank ill do full clean/restore.

From the filter
11276

Settled for a few minutes
11277

[phychotron]

To answer my own question for anyone else who might have the same problem:

Yes, it was the fuel pump. It hummed for a second or two when I jumped the connector, I pulled the jumper and fired right up after that.

I wanted to note though that I should have tested for power at the pumps 2 prong plug just above the drive shaft before i dropped the tank. If it wasnt the pump it would have been all in vain.


Tank looked fine. A mechanic I talked to said if the outside looks fine the inside is usually fine...but there are some tank restore systems that work. I just replaced the rotting hoses amd clamps. he suggested brake cleaner thru the hard lines but that would have been teedious.

11283

Ospho suggested their product would have worked fine though...


11284

[Ian R.]

Hi all!

I have been trying to track done an issue with my van. Nothing serious, but it is more of an annoyance. Basically it takes a few cranks and taps to gas peddle to get the van started while it is cold. But it starts up perfect once the engine is warm. The second issue ( maybe unrelated) is I can’t get the idle to be below 1000rpm. I have changed out the TPS (had to make a throttle body gasket from a universal gasket as they are no longer available, but that is a different story) with no luck. I have also tried to adjust the idle with the idle screw. But the idle seems to revert back to where was prior to adjusting the idle screw after a few minutes of driving.

So my theory is that the fuel pressure regulator is not functioning properly. Maybe letting to much fuel in with increased pressure creating a higher rpm idle. Secondly, when the engine is off the pressure then leaks in the line creating the starting issue.

A question I have for those that have changed a fuel pressure regulator is, have you replaced the two brass gaskets highlighted in the attached image? I have purchased them along with a new union bolt (the one currently on the van is slightly stripped and I am afraid it will not be able to be reused), but the existence of the brass hackers are not described in the repair manual when replacing the fuel pressure regulator.

Thank you for your shared experience in advance!

if interested in part numbers

Union bolt part number: 90401-08004
Brass gasket part number: 90430-08011

attached is the parts diagram and image of the replacement parts I have

Ian

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/blob:https://www.toyotavantech.com/3ba13a9d-e578-40b1-9b44-ac30e7cff436


https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/blob:https://www.toyotavantech.com/9dd0d00c-ea84-4fe0-93c8-61562f4e3f4a

[Ian R.]

Sorry part of previous post

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/blob:https://www.toyotavantech.com/1dece9b4-8773-4bb0-86cf-e582eba048c3

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/blob:https://www.toyotavantech.com/93fc4be5-1e25-4f20-8e86-cdd10e60e890

[Jan-Willem]

Hi Ian, I am sure you already have checked it, but a longer start, when cold, and a high idle, are both also symptoms of a bad battery. If the voltage when cranking drops too low, it is harder to start. Then the alternator makes then engine idle up, to charge the battery.

[Ian R.]

Thank you for the tip! I’ll check the battery before I replace the FPR.

[MarkH]

... it takes a few cranks and taps to gas peddle to get the van started while it is cold. But it starts up perfect once the engine is warm. The second issue ( maybe unrelated) is I can’t get the idle to be below 1000rpm. ...


I would check the fuel pressure with a gauge to rule out fuel pressure issues before replacing components that might not be the issue. Your symptoms sound like a vacuum leak to me. It's a quick check make sure all the vacuum hoses are attached and not cracked or degraded. A vacuum leak could also be caused by leaking intake manifold gaskets, leaking rubber grommets around the nuts holding down the valve cover, valve cover gasket, oil dipstick seal, pcv valve grommet, etc. I've never tried it, but many people use a flammable spray like carb cleaner/throttle body cleaner. You spray around those components when the engine is running at idle. If the idle speed changes when you are spraying at a particular component, it's because the spray was sucked into the component meaning it is leaking. I'd be semi-afraid of causing a fireball using this technique, but it seems to be pretty common and most people claim to have survived.

[Metalghost]

Looks like this might be the right place for my issue. I have similar issues to another user where the 86 Van starts but dies immediately. I measured my pressure for the PR and it is a little high. 42 for a range that is spaced 33-38psi.

1) is 4psi over enough to cause trouble. I saw an earlier answer was the van can compensate some with the O2 sensor. But not sure when is too much. 50psi was deemed not working from the authors post.

2) I’m in process of changing all vacuum lines off the throttle body. I read that vacuum leaks can cause idle problems of start/running problems. I check spark and saw spark in all 4 but thinking of going through the distributor for timing and rotor/cap condition next.

3) Could a bad mass air flow sensor be throwing off the mix after it turns over?

Open to any help. Trying my best to be smart and diagnose over throwing new parts at the problem.

[timsrv]

Having a little too much fuel pressure will not cause your problem. I have full gauge sets in my vans (including fuel pressure) and my 86 van had high pressure like that for years before I replaced the FPR. You are correct about the system compensating. The ECU adjusts injector fire times based on info it gets from the o2 sensor, so if there were too much fuel pressure it would be compensated for. So even though the FPR is not within it's specified range, it's not the cause of your issue.

There are other threads that should be able to help you diagnose. Search for "coil" "igniter" (maybe some results in "ignitor") and "Electronic Control Unit" Having some extra parts around is a good thing, so if you can find any of these things cheap in a salvage yard or maybe eBay, they can save lots of troubleshooting time and heartache. Good luck! Tim

[MarkH]

Looks like this might be the right place for my issue. I have similar issues to another user where the 86 Van starts but dies immediately. I measured my pressure for the PR and it is a little high. 42 for a range that is spaced 33-38psi.

1) is 4psi over enough to cause trouble. I saw an earlier answer was the van can compensate some with the O2 sensor. But not sure when is too much. 50psi was deemed not working from the authors post.

3) Could a bad mass air flow sensor be throwing off the mix after it turns over?


I think if the signal from the O2 sensor goes out of range (too high or too low), it should generate a fault code. Same with the MAF sensor. Assuming your check engine light isn't burnt out, are you getting any codes? There is a connector in the engine bay to jumper to check this.

[MarkH]

Also, there is that flapper-type valve in the air intake that makes a switch to run the fuel pump. If that switch is faulty or the valve is not opening properly, the fuel pump will shut down. When you tested the fuel pressure was it with the fuel pump test connector jumpered?

[Metalghost]

Wow. This is good info.

Yep I jumpered the pump to test it. Also I don't see any fault codes on the engine light. That does work as I see the bulb on when I turn on the car. I saw how to get into that code reading. I can check again but didn't see any errors popping up. But if there is a way to check the O2 and MAF sensor I will do that.

I'm replacing all vacuum tubing and the big Tbody/cleaner hose to make sure I don't have a leak. After "air" is all sorted I'll try poking around the spark side more. Already check there is a spark but can dive into the distributor/ignitor/wire.

Open to anything else or redirects to articles. Been through the search for ignitors and coils already.

[Ian R.]

Closing out my question about the part numbers. Yes these fit the FPR (the ones originally on the van were washers without the tabs).

This is a tedious task. I recommend unbolting the heater hoses nearby, wrapping a rope or shop towel around them, and pull them out of the way (tie them off when retracted). I was able to sneak a 3/8 drive socket on the shortest extension to remove the union bolt.

Also use a Phillips head on the two FBR mounting bolts to get the started. It took a few tries to have them threaded properly. Once they are threaded use a socket and long extension to get them snug and followup with a torque wrench 5.9 Nm for the two mounting bolts and 20Nm for the union bolt.

[armorrell]

Tim, I can't thank you enough for posts like these. So much generosity sharing the knowledge and helping out with the hard work of making it all available.

So, I have several items to ask about/mention....
#1- Is there any difference between the 2WD and 4WD Fuel Pressure regulators?
#2- Is there a typical expected lifespan? Should it be changed at a particular mileage as a maintenance procedure?
#3- Reason I find myself on this thread: I've noticed over the past couple of years a gradual decrease in engine power.
With that in mind I've: {A} updated the Cat, (needed it). {B,C} Done a full tune up, New fuel filter (both due). {D} New O2 sensor... (Note: in refreshing the O2 sensor, I realized the previous owner deleted the downstream sensor and I've been running the van for the past 20 years without it, pretty crazy to just now realize it) {E} Vacuum lines have all been upgraded to silicone {F} New high performance air filter. {G} new PCV Valve. {H} new fuel pump in 2020.
#4- With all that, nothing has changed power-wise. So I'm wondering if it could be a slowly failing FPR, Dirty injectors, after market throttle position sensor, etc?

Any thoughts on which mineshaft I should descend into first? ;) I'm going to start doing some proper testing as soon as it warms up a bit.

Bonus: I might've found a resource from the UAE that has the TOYOTA OEM FPR available. regulator-assy-2328073040 (https://toyotadxb.com/spare-parts/toyota/regulator-assy-2328073040/) I have started an order and we'll see if they have it available and how much it costs to ship. I'll update as I get a response from them.

[Ian R.]

Hi Armorell,

With regards to loss of power the Service manual (can be found and download for a thread on this site) has pretty good trouble shoot on the subject. Did the tune up include rotor, cap, potentially a coil, check the timing? There is nothing in the service manual on testing the igniter, just to replace it if it is suspected. Since the loss of power has been gradual it probably could not be brake drag. Any unusual front tire wear? Could be needing front alignment. How many miles on the van? Has there been a gradual decline in fuel efficiency? Have you checked compression?

i recently replaced the FPR and did not notice a change in power, but I don’t know if my van is suffering from that issue.

Something that I have noticed in my life is that we all lose power with age and mileage:)

[timsrv]

Tim, I can't thank you enough for posts like these. So much generosity sharing the knowledge and helping out with the hard work of making it all available.

So, I have several items to ask about/mention....
#1- Is there any difference between the 2WD and 4WD Fuel Pressure regulators?
#2- Is there a typical expected lifespan? Should it be changed at a particular mileage as a maintenance procedure?
#3- Reason I find myself on this thread: I've noticed over the past couple of years a gradual decrease in engine power.
With that in mind I've: {A} updated the Cat, (needed it). {B,C} Done a full tune up, New fuel filter (both due). {D} New O2 sensor... (Note: in refreshing the O2 sensor, I realized the previous owner deleted the downstream sensor and I've been running the van for the past 20 years without it, pretty crazy to just now realize it) {E} Vacuum lines have all been upgraded to silicone {F} New high performance air filter. {G} new PCV Valve. {H} new fuel pump in 2020.
#4- With all that, nothing has changed power-wise. So I'm wondering if it could be a slowly failing FPR, Dirty injectors, after market throttle position sensor, etc?

Any thoughts on which mineshaft I should descend into first? ;) I'm going to start doing some proper testing as soon as it warms up a bit.

Bonus: I might've found a resource from the UAE that has the TOYOTA OEM FPR available. regulator-assy-2328073040 (https://toyotadxb.com/spare-parts/toyota/regulator-assy-2328073040/) I have started an order and we'll see if they have it available and how much it costs to ship. I'll update as I get a response from them.

#1 Same thing on both. All years of van have interchangeable regulators, but Toyota slightly raised pressure on the 88 - 89 regulators though (good thing).

#2 There is no "expiration date" on these but there are 4 common failures of the regulator: failure to reduce fuel pressure to the correct value, internal leakage, external leakage, tearing/breakage of the internal vacuum diaphragm. None of these failures should cause a reduction in power, although external leakage could be dangerous. Internal leakage allows fuel to return to tank, and that will delay engine start-up (long cranking time). If it leaks or if you experience long cranking times, that is a good reason to replace. The other type failures will probably not be noticed unless you observe using a fuel pressure gauge. It's been my experience that OEM regulators fail in one way or another @ ~ 150k miles. I haven't had very good luck with the aftermarket ones.

#3 I didn't see spark plugs or plug wires on that list....these can cause a gradual power issue.

#4 Regarding TPS, I've only used Toyota and Bech Arnley. Both have served me well. Are you getting any codes? Dirty injectors are a possibility, but in my experience, they either work or they don't. Do you have a miss? I've had several issues with injectors that were completely clogged (no fire in that cylinder), but that was caused by a contaminated fuel system. When I've experienced complete clogs it's always been #3 injector.


Good luck with the OE regulator order. Please let us know if you are successful. IMO that is too good to be true and will not likely pan out. These regulators are NLA through Toyota now but you can still find them on eBay (search using the Denso number). I looked at one listing and it looked a little iffy in the pics (almost like it had been used), yet they wanted $156 for it. I stocked up on these a while back (before they went extinct).......and no, I'm not selling them (sorry).

[armorrell]

Thanks for the response Ian R.

Did the tune up include rotor, cap, potentially a coil, check the timing? Yep, switched out the Coil (It had died recently). New plugs, Plug cables, cap and rotor. Haven't checked the timing though.
Any unusual front tire wear? I do have the front passenger wheel creating some black brake dust. Although there isn't any noticeable wear on the rotor or the pads... or any noise for that matter.
Could be needing front alignment. Doesn't pull at all, but might still be worth checking out.
How many miles on the van? 240,000 Miles
Has there been a gradual decline in fuel efficiency? My fuel efficiency averaging 16.7 MPG. Kinda feel like it should be better.
Have you checked compression? I did check compression, but need to redo it. I missed a step and don't trust my reading was complete. So that'll happen again soon.

Something that I have noticed in my life is that we all lose power with age and mileage:)[/QUOTE] Totally :wnk:

[armorrell]

Excellent thanks for the feedback.

"I haven't had very good luck with the aftermarket ones."
I found another one that's supposed to match. Made by a company named Standard- Link is here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325258535936?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=BmBTLhBPRGi&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

"Good luck with the OE regulator order. Please let us know if you are successful.
Unfortunately they got back to me and said they have no stocks. :(

"These regulators are NLA through Toyota now but you can still find them on eBay (search using the Denso number)"
I couldn't find the complete Denso number in the previous posts. Just the link to the eBay page, which has since expired.

"I didn't see spark plugs or plug wires on that list....these can cause a gradual power issue."
Yep changed out fresh plugs, Plug cables, cap and rotor.

"Regarding TPS, I've only used Toyota and Bech Arnley. Both have served me well. Are you getting any codes?"
Only code thus far was an oxygen sensor code while climbing a mountain a while back. New O2 sensor and it hasn't shown up again since.

"Dirty injectors are a possibility, but in my experience, they either work or they don't. Do you have a miss? I've had several issues with injectors that were completely clogged (no fire in that cylinder), but that was caused by a contaminated fuel system. When I've experienced complete clogs it's always been #3 injector."
I do have a very minor miss sometimes when I start cold, but it goes away very quickly and then doesn't show again for a good while. Very intermittent. Makes me think I need to check those injectors as well.

"I stocked up on these a while back (before they went extinct).......and no, I'm not selling them (sorry)."
As you should, stock up I mean. :) That's what I intend if I ever find some OE ones. ;)

Thanks again for the help. And If I figure out this power loss thing I'll try to remember and update here.

[timsrv]

I just wanted to clarify, when you say you got a code, was it one that just popped up for a minute while driving or did you put a jumper in your Check Engine Connector to capture?

The Denso number 2328073040 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p3519243.m570.l1313&_nkw=2328073040&_sacat=0) is in that link you provided (in the title). I used a Standard regulator before and although it performed okay It leaked externally so I took it off and replaced with Denso. The threads for the banjo bolt were not square with the sealing surface so the crush washer could not quite seal. I probably could have doubled up the crush washers, but was disgusted with the obvious quality issue so I trashed it. Still, I probably got the one in a thousand with that problem so I'm guessing yours will be fine. FYI, I still use the Standard "Fuel Pulsation Dampers", but the threads are always trashy and require chasing with a die before installation. Tim