Christmas dash after installing new alternator [Archive]

spacecruisers

03-22-2017, 04:31 PM

Just installed a new Bosch alternator in my van after my old one's bearings failed (which worked surprisingly well given the thick greasy coating in and around it from a leaky PS leak the PO hadn't bothered to fix :no:)

I topped off the battery with a charge and installed it, started it up to a christmas dash! The radiator light will stay on regardless because I accidentally broke on of the wires form the sensor in the overflow tank (plan to fix that) but the brake, battery, and oil lights all came on after installing the new alternator and haven't gone away after driving it for a few days.

It could be related, but I also have noticed the van starts intermittently every now and again since installing the new alternator - like the starter isn't getting power or something. Just click, click, click, and after sitting and trying 4-5 times it starts right up fine. Usually it starts up fine first try however.

The harness seemed to be in good shape when i reinstalled. Anyone that could give me some inspiration on what might be the problem? Is there some messed up wiring somewhere i need to replace?

JPERL

03-22-2017, 11:01 PM

Probably got a bad alternator out of the box. It happens more than you would think. Take it back and have it tested.

Check the fusible links and positive battery connections and grounds. If the fusible link that is on the sense circuit is blown that would cause your lights on the dash to be on because the IC voltage regulator cannot sense that a battery is connected and the alternator over charging could be the issue

Fusible Link thread
http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?136-The-fusible-link-thread

In regard to the radiator light being on you can just disconnect the damaged end of the sensor from the harness side. I have disconnected them and the radiator light should only come on when the ignition is on and engine off

Chardog1971

03-27-2017, 10:19 AM

I had the same problem after I put in a new alternator. Turns out the electrical socket wasn't fully engaged in its plug. I almost took the whole thing apart for no reason. Has been fine since.
On the other hand , I have also gotten a bad one from the box. I have gotten into the habit of having the new one bench tested at the parts store. The guys at my local store are cool about performing this service. It's probably easier than doing a return after its been installed.:redvan::yellowvan::greenvan:

spacecruisers

03-27-2017, 11:18 AM

Thanks a ton, both of these replies are extremely helpful. I'm sure its one or the other thats causing the issue. The fusible link near the battery is very old and haggard. I also wasn't sure if i had got the plug in right or not so that may be the issue. I will give it a look over this evening hopefully and update with results!

spacecruisers

04-02-2017, 04:52 PM

OK, so i had a chance to go out and fiddle with things today. Unplugged the harness and plugged it back in and heard it snap back into place. Dont think there was a problem there. Looked for the fusible link in the battery compartment that Tim mentioned, and here's what I saw:

5157

Looks like its been removed? I ordered the inline fuse holder tim suggested on the fusible link thread any way for good measure.

Not quite sure whats going on with the wiring here, but it wasn't a problem before i installed the new alternator.

When I start the van it takes 4-5 tries usually. Click. Click. Click. Vroom, starts right up after a few hard clicking/clunking sounds. The starting issues were immediate after installing the new alternator. This makes me suspect its bad as suggested.

Maybe the alternator was indeed bad out of the box..... where can I have it tested? O'Reilly? Do i have to remove it in order to test? Super annoyed if I have to do this job again, not to mention the woeful support I've had from Rock Auto in the past. :doh:

Thanks for the help so far.

spacecruisers

04-03-2017, 12:12 PM

I forgot to add, i tested the voltage at rest which was 12.2, a little low, but it had been sitting for almost 2 weeks so that makes sense. The voltage while the van was running was 14.3, which i believe is in the normal range as well. i wonder if the starting issue is related to the new alternator? bad diode perhaps?

spacecruisers

04-06-2017, 01:36 AM

Well, I decided to have my old alternator rebuilt by a company here called Generator Exchange for about $80, and they seemed to have done a great job making my old power steering fluid drenched miserable looking alternator look brand new.

i pulled out the new Bosch and put my original rebuilt in there and made sure everything was buttoned up but I'm still getting the Christmas dash :pissed: And the intermittent starting click click click when I turn the key. So it doesn't appear that the Bosch unit was to blame. The alternator harness appears to be in good shape and is fully seated so I'm not sure what to check next. Any thoughts?

89TownAce

04-06-2017, 11:29 AM

I had this issue with my TownAce. The Xmas lights were because I had converted to a 1-wire alternator. If the 12v reference line isn't connected, you'll get the xmas lights. It's one of the wires on the harness going to the alternator (I forget which color). On my van I had an external voltage regulator behind my glove box. If that went bad, it would also cause xmas lights. I believe the regular Toyota van have the voltage regulator built into the alternator so that shouldn't be the issue for you. I would find out which wire is your 12v reference wire and trace it. Maybe it has a short or is damaged somewhere.

I also had the click click click click START occasionally. It was like 1 out of 10 times I tried to start it this would happen. I never solved it, but these were my observations/theories:

1. I thought I had resolved it with a new battery. Once I installed a new battery, I did not have the problem for a while...then it returned. Which leads me to #2.

2. It's very possibly related to voltage. Many cars require a certain voltage before the starter will engage. Put the van on a charger and see if it has the issue.

3. I read somewhere that somebody resolved the issue with a new ignition switch in the steering column. I never tried that. Seems plausible.

4. Most of the threads on the TownAve forums attributed it to the copper studs INSIDE of the starter. Basically the leads from the terminals to the brushes. I assumed, when I had my starter rebuilt that they would have replaced these studs, but later learned that they most likely re-used those parts. Hence why rebuilding my starter did not resolve the problem. From what I could gather, it's pretty simply to replace those internal studs. You have to drop the starter, but once on a bench it can be done fairly easily. This was going to be my next step until my van sold.

spacecruisers

04-19-2017, 10:46 PM

I finally had some spare time to go back to this today. Inspected the fusible links next to the PS reservoir - looked fine. Crawled under and checked the link next to the battery compartment and i think i found my problem. No idea how that happened but my guess is I must have broke it when i pulled the battery to top it off with a charge when installing my alternator. ill have to buy a new one and see if that fixes the christmas dash:

5233

after looking through the fusible link thread, i ended up buying an 80 amp circuit breaker on amazon (part # Bussmann CB185-80) so ill try that out and see how it works. hopefully the amperage is right for my application. if I'm buying the wrong amperage let me know!

amcneill

04-20-2017, 01:03 AM

im not 100% sure, but i believe a 80 amp circuit breaker is designed to break as soon as it reaches anything above its rating, but a fusible link will take more than its rating for about 30 seconds (say when you're using your starter and require a lot of amps) then break to avoid a wire overheating and lighting a fire... i was told this by an old mechanic friend, i'm not sure if he's correct but i've been able to trust him in the past.

SpaceToaster

08-01-2017, 02:05 AM

About a month ago I started to get the Christmas tree lights, and discounted it as a faulty cluster connection due to the fact I had put in a new master cylinder and ignition lock cylinder a few months back.
Oneday when coming home from work the van died in the middle of the road, couldnt get it to start up again for longer than a few minutes, and finally the next morning drove it with a jumpstarted plugged in to Autozone, where they told me the alternator was shot and I installed a new one.
The van ran great after that for about a month, but now the cluster lights have come back on (oil, brake, charge)
Engine seems to idle rough (like its sputtering a bit ever now and then) and it feels like its going to die if I put it in reverse.
Battery was checked out to be fine.

Any ideas? maybe bad electrical connections between the battery and alternator?

SpaceToaster

08-08-2017, 05:52 PM

Update: battery was tested good.
Alternator tested as bad at autozone, got it swapped for a new one.
It fixed the christmas tree lights...and the van was only really starting with a jump after that.
I got about halfway to work when all the dashlights in the van were flickering.
Died at the post office, I thought it might have been the plug to the alternator because it was falling apart, but I replaced that, and its getting juice (to the plug).
When I put in the key the batter light comes on and I get a single "click" trying to start it, which makes me think starter/solenoid.
The lights in the cabin and the headlights come on perfectly fine, just for some reason juice isnt getting to the ignition system.
Ive tested circuit on everything around the alternator and batter and its all good, but the battery light is still on and it wont start.

SpaceToaster

08-13-2017, 11:35 PM

update: put in a brand new starter.
still get a light that the battery is dead, but Oreilly checked out the battery to be good
Alternator is good.
All juice is getting to the alternator.

still getting only a "click" without a start or turning over....
Ill check out the relay tomorrow morning but if I cant figure this out I think Ill need to take it to an electrical specialist, because I am not good with wiring and electronics.

dogger562

08-14-2017, 02:01 AM

Good luck my friend I haven't had that problem so don't know much but keep us posted we never know.. I've had that clicking sound about 5 times but been fortunate that it went a away quick Good luck

SpaceToaster

08-19-2017, 11:06 PM

Update: seems to have been the wiring; I put in a new ignition switch, nothing changed, battery light was still on, no door light, no buzzer....
then I tried something I hadnt thought to, figuring maybe I crossed the wires when I put in a new alternator connector, I crossed the wires back the other way.
Now when I put the key in I get a good solid door boozer and the "door open" light on the dash, which I didnt before (only the battery light)...however, once I put they key in and turn it I get all very dull lights on the dash, and this is with a batter jump starter plugged in.
Starter and alternator are brand new, gotta be something with the wiring.

Id like to find a new alternator harness but they dont seem to make this part anymore, and thats where my wiring seems to be bad.

Anyone have experience making their own alternator harness?

spacecruisers

08-19-2017, 11:33 PM

Im curious myself - the harness is NLA. I tried purchasing it from about 5 different sites a couple months ago and they all cancelled my order.

SpaceToaster

08-20-2017, 05:18 PM

Im curious myself - the harness is NLA. I tried purchasing it from about 5 different sites a couple months ago and they all cancelled my order.

I am finding several alternator harnesses that look quite "similar" in their connections, or at least enough so to be modified;
early 90s previa, 80s supra, 80s landcruiser....Im wondering if I could take and modify one of these that seems to be in "good" condition to fit the van, since they have the same alternator connectors, and possibly even the same connector to the rest of the harness.

AD2101

08-20-2017, 08:46 PM

You can definitely fab up new harnesses, and since they are NLA, that's what we're going to have to do once these start giving up the ghost, which is going to be more often given that these are only getting older by the day.

Personally, I've had intermittent Christmas tree lights for the past 4 months. I was quickly able to figure out that it was the plug on the alternator end of the harness making an intermittent connection rather than the alternator itself(which I had just replaced a couple of months prior). I've been driving it around as needed and, aside from the initial annoyance when the lights come on, I've experienced no other adverse effects. It's not ideal to be driving around like that but my 4runner has been acting up too so I've had to make it work. I found a new alternator-end of the harness on Amazon here (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XCTS5QZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), and it comes with enough wire to hopefully fix my issue. I was never able to find a part number or a match for the other end of the harness though. It's up there on my to-do list so hopefully I'll have it done soon.

I believe a while back Tim considered making up some new harnesses for members here, but ultimately I think it was too cost prohibitive to do unless there was a significant amount of buyers. That was a while ago, I'd buy two if he were to make them now since I know they'd be quality and likely last the life of the van (with a spare *just in case*).

SpaceToaster

08-20-2017, 08:49 PM

You can definitely fab up new harnesses, and since they are NLA, that's what we're going to have to do once these start giving up the ghost, which is going to be more often given that these are only getting older by the day.

Personally, I've had intermittent Christmas tree lights for the past 4 months. I was quickly able to figure out that it was the plug on the alternator end of it making an in intermittent connection rather than the alternator itself(which I had just replaced a couple of months prior). I've been driving it around as needed and, aside from the initial annoyance when the lights come on, I've experienced no other adverse effects. It's not ideal to be driving around like that but my 4runner has been acting up too so I've had to make it work. I found a new alternator-end of the harness on Amazon here (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XCTS5QZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), and it comes with enough wire to hopefully fix my issue. I was never able to find a part number or a match for the other end of the harness though. It's up there on my to-do list so hopefully I'll have it done soon.

I believe a while back Tim considered making up some new harnesses for members here, but ultimately I think it was too cost prohibitive to do unless there was a significant amount of buyers. That was a while ago, I'd buy two if he were to make them now since I know they'd be quality and likely last the life of the van (with a spare *just in case*).

The old plug was definitely what was causing problems and I bought a new one, and replace it but it did not fix the issue completely; it just went from displaying a "dead battery light" to where I finally get the buzz and the click but still no start.

AD2101

08-20-2017, 08:52 PM

Damn, I might be in the same boat as you then, I was almost positive that was going to be the cure-all for my issues but it sounds more complicated than that. If someone is able to figure out a part number for the plug on the other end of the harness I don't see why you can't just make a new harness that way.

SpaceToaster

08-20-2017, 09:46 PM

So far here is what Im seeing: power makes it to the alternator, power makes it out of the alternator, all fuses are good...power DOES NOT make it to the starter...the "click" I hear is on the alternator side of the engine, and not the starter side, but the alternator is remanufactured/new

AD2101

11-10-2017, 10:50 AM

Ok, finally putting my money where my mouth is and trying to fab up a new harness. One issue, the wires on the two plugs are different gauges. Does any electric-savvy person know if this is going to be a problem? On the alternator side plug (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XCTS5QZ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1), two of the wires are 14 AWG and the ground wire is 18 gauge. On the other side plug (http://www.repairconnector.com/products/Nippondenso-Toyota-MR2-Alternator-Connector-Round-3-Wire-Male-Terminals.html), the wires are 18 AWG all the way around. I've read conflicting things online and nothing that particularly addresses my application, so I was hoping here someone had some insight. My idea was to split the difference and connect the two plugs with lengths of 16 AWG that brought it up to harness-length.

EDIT #3: Since I am incapable of posting anything here without having to make multiple edits, I'd figured I'd post the gauges of the wires in the harness I pulled out of the van. Two of the wires are 14 AWG and the ground is 18 AWG, the same as the new alternator side plug above. I guess a second option is just to splice in the new alternator plug into the existing harness (especially because my current alternator plug is where visible damage is and is *I believe* where my problem lies), but I figured since I was going through all of this, I might as well start fresh with all new components. Thoughts?

oli larsen

11-10-2017, 03:23 PM

strangely many years ago in Australia I had an 85 townace, tarragon over there. I had the same issues and went through all the usuals, battery terminals, alternator, wiring and it ended up being the simplest thing. a fuse in the fusebox had a wobbly connection. I know its a long shot but like you id tried everything else and it never crossed my mind. I can't remember what fuse. I'm assuming it was one to do with the charge circuit. without a strong connection the circuit is an open loop. worth a look. go have a poke around.

AD2101

11-19-2017, 01:03 PM

A reply to my last post in case anyone else comes across the same issue or question. What I ultimately decided to do was to splice the new alternator plug into the existing harness as opposed to making a completely new one. Once I really dug into the harness (the AWG numbers I came up with was from another, damaged harness I had), I saw that the whole thing had been hacked to hell and used significantly different gauge wire throughout the length of the harness. I drove it like that for years with no issues so I'm fairly confident enough that the different size in wires spliced together won't be an issue. I'm still on the lookout for another alternator-end plug so I can still make a new one for when this one is beyond repair.

boogieman

11-19-2017, 02:02 PM

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F20 1276216843

AD2101

11-19-2017, 02:34 PM

Thank you! :dance2:

Tan Van

11-20-2017, 10:19 AM

I'm sure the new alternator plug will help a lot, especially since you found a previous hack job ...

I just want to add that, once, when I had the exact same issue, ...(the click -- no start -- but, battery is good scenario) (I usually had to jump start the van or use a battery charger/starter to get it to start) ...what we found was a wimpy ground wire from the battery box area to the chassis ... we fabbed up a huge gauge new wire with nice terminals and with thet great new ground, the problem went away ... just in case you have't done this already

spacecruisers

11-26-2017, 03:13 PM