Throttle Position Sensor, TPS, Canada

[vanwagone]

I know that there has been a lot of discussion on throttle position sensors and, although I don't have a corresponding error code, I'm aiming to replace mine at 170 000 Km/110 000 miles. My van doesn't seem to quite be running optimally as there is at times slight hesitation or inconsistent RPM's at consistent highway speeds. Sound like the culprit? I've recently replaced the O2 sensor, distributor cap, plugs and wires to try to get at this problem and although the van is running better the intermittent lag persists. Also, my MPG aren't yet what others seem to be getting. However, I can't seem to find a source online in Canada for a TPS. I could try through a toyota parts distributor in the US but the shipping and border costs bump it up. Can I purchase a TPS from another model Toyota? Or is there a site/brand people trust for us up North? I know that Toyota parts should be used when possible, but I've found my local Toyota dealer to be both unhelpful and extremely exorbitant (I was quoted 350 bucks for an O2 sensor). Any leads or ideas?

[djshimon]

It sounds like what others have described as the TPS. I just changed mine and there is a little, round, plastic piece inside that was broken-like they said it would be(poor engineering). I was not having the symptoms you describe.
My problem was with setting timing-the timing would not "jump" when I pulled check engine connector-and this is one of the signs of a busted TPS. Tonkin Toyota(Portland, Oregon) quoted me 90$ but gave me it for 80$ with the throttle gasket-which you should get too if you do it with removing the throttle body too. The gasket was a PITA to remove and took me a couple days, but if I was to do it again: I'd remove the driver seat to allow more access-it'll take an extra ten minutes and save you a few awfully uncomfortable positions-then you can just put in the TPS without removing the Throttle Body(I think). Although some may say removing the Throttle body and cleaning it is necessary at some point anyway.
I read, here or TVP, that ROCKAUTO sells a TPS for cheaper and it worked but I don't think it's much cheaper and why mess around with it twice to save 20$?
Setting the TPS really wasn't as difficult as it seems so just do it right and you'll be happy.
Let us know how it goes- aaron.

Here is a link to Bala's TPS troubles and fix of the TPS:

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?57-Engine-Service-Connector-not-working-can-t-set-proper-ignition-timing.
(http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?57-Engine-Service-Connector-not-working-can-t-set-proper-ignition-timing)

[vanwagone]

Thanks for the help! I'm going to go looking for a good TPS now and I'll fill in the details.

[Burntboot]

VWG

I had very similar symptoms to yours, including no code.
I had cleaned the TB (without dismantling) 3 months earlier with little improvement in symptoms.
The TPS from the dealer was about $150 incl the TB gasket.
From the outside the TB looked nearly pristine but from the back side, it was a completely different story.
Once I got all the gooey stuff off, I had to use a pic to remove the carbon build-up that was fouling the flap.
There was no way anything could have worked correctly the way it was.

That said, the improvement in drivability, made it the single most satisfying repair to date.

[vanwagone]

So is the toyota part worth the 165 bucks that the dealer in town wants? I can get one online for around 60 (and not the cheapo version either). That's a significant difference. Any thoughts?

[timsrv]

I believe that Celicas of the same era use the same TPS as our vans. There may be others as well. IMO the throttle body must be removed to replace the TPS. I'll stop short of saying "impossible", but removing the throttle body isn't too hard, so that's what I'd do. Taking the throttle body off also gives you a good opportunity to clean out years of the "black stuff" that gets trapped in there. Here's a video I took the last time I replaced one. Getting it adjusted correctly is critical, so make sure it's right before putting it back together.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/th_MVI_0426.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/?action=view&current=MVI_0426.mp4)

I would recommend sticking with genuine Toyota parts, but I have actually used Bech Arnley before and it seemed to be okay. I got one from www.rockauto.com for under $20 during one of their "close-out" sales. Good luck. Tim

[Burntboot]

VMG - It all depends on what it costs to get it too you and how much you like replacing it.

I went OEM because I hate doing things twice, especially things that aren't fun to change.
Helps that my dealer is old car sympathetic.

Over here in Ontario, any time I order something out of the US, I know it will cast me at least $60 more than the quoted price.
That usually closes the gap significantly.
Then there is the whole issue of warranty, not so much an issue on the TPS but .....

If your dealer likes your business, he should be willing to do a little better than retail, my guy goes 10-20% off, then again, I visit him regularly.

One other option would be to farm it through ACH out of Texas, they will add 20% to the US price + freight, but it can be a viable option on expensive stuff where the price differential is more of an issue.

[vanwagone]

Thanks a bunch for that video, Tim. And all the other info/suggestions. That was just what I was looking for and perfectly straightforward. I did end up going OEM, though it's gonna cost me about 170 bucks here in Canada. My toyota guy says it's coming from California and that it's the last one available in N. America... Also, I forgot to order a new throttle body gasket. Can I get away without changing mine or can I make one myself? I haven't cracked the throttle body yet to find out (as my parts are still about a week away). Thoughts on that?

[timsrv]

If the gasket stays intact then I wouldn't hesitate to re-use. That's a big IF though. Usually half sticks to the throttle body and the other to the manifold. The result is a destroyed gasket. It is a pretty simple gasket, so in a pinch you could make your own. Have fun. Tim

[vanwagone]

So should there be any noticeable damage to the old TPS? I just got the new one today and tore off the throttle body. The old TPS, at a glance, looks pretty pristine. Any way to tell? In Canada this thing cost me 165 and would have been 210 if the dealer hadn't screwed up. So I'd like to make sure that it's necessary. Got the black goo to take care of. Looks like the intake manifold has its share too. Anyone cleaned that up good too or is that too difficult?

[timsrv]

The TPS has a little cam inside that rotates with the throttle body. That cam opens and closes little contact points when rotated. The ECU uses the input from these points to determine throttle position. It doesn't matter what the outside of the TPS looks like, it's the condition of the points inside that matter. When they get old the contact surfaces get dirty and/or the points lose their "springiness" and fail to close all the way. The FI section of the service manual outlines a test procedure for the TPS, but I've found that they typically fail around 100k miles or so. Even when high mileage ones test good I still don't trust them because they become intermittent towards the end.

Almost every van I've owned with over 100k miles has had a bad TPS (so I usually don't even bother testing them anymore). If it has over 100k miles on it and you don't know the history then I would recommend replacing it..........especially if the ECU has a TPS fault code stored in it. If however the van runs good, passes emissions, and has no fault codes stored, then I may consider putting it off for a while.

When it comes to cleaning that gasket surface I usually pull the stud out of the manifold then use a 2" diameter Scotch Brite disc on a die grinder. If you do this you need to be careful about potential damage to the aluminum surfaces and steps should be taken to avoid getting grit inside the intake area.

As for the black goo that builds up inside the throttle body, if I have time I'll just drop the throttle body inside a gallon can of carb cleaner overnight. The next day the gasket area is clean and all the black goo is gone. If I'm in a hurry I use a spray can of carb cleaner and hose her down good. It's also a good idea to force it into all the little vacuum hose ports and make sure it sprays out the other end of the hole(s). After the carb cleaner I blow it out good with compressed air.

Warning: When using harsh chemicals follow the safety instructions on the can. Also use proper eye protection when using compressed air and/or other power tools. Tim

[Harbilly]

Last I checked (2 years) Lordco auto in BC could supply the TPS (beck arnley I think).

[bushcat]

I'm having a shop perform a head gasket job and I read posts that recommend replacing the TPS. I can't find any OEM TPS. Any tips on where I can locate one or a brand I can use in its place?

[timsrv]

I've been using the Beck Arnley TPS units for almost 10 years now and they have been performing well. Here's a link to a post with more information: https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?1242-Article-Cleaning-the-Throttle-Body&p=11290#post11290. Reading that entire thread would also be very useful to anybody working on their throttle body and/or TPS. Tim

[boogieman]

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so finally getting around to my fresh engine swap and decided its time to replace my tps with a beck and arnley unit...set idle up with no issues but when checking for wide open throttle i was getting continuity between the E1 and PSW terminals at only a few degrees past closed throttle. as i continue past this point towards WOT it loses continuity but does regain continuity just before WOT like it should. my oem tps does not do this and it seems like this would cause a running issue. the beck/arnley tps part number jives...pictures show on the idle stop, a few degrees past idle, and wide open throttle...bad part? non issue? tempted to die grind the plastic cam actuator..way past return window...

edit: solution was to slightly bend the psw arm up,. away from the e1 contact. does anyone know what the computer does when the tps is at wot? im assuming this would have caused a running issue and maybe a code, but lesson is to check both off idle and wot settings. just glad i didnt have to take this throttle body back off after install.