Wheel noise!?

[abracadabra]

Okay folks, got an issue I'm trying to diagnose.

I've been having some wheel noise creep up. Its been happening for a little while now but is getting a little worse. Its a high pitch squeely sorta noise that happens when the van is moving. When the brakes are applied the sound changes (its still the squeely sound just the timing changes).

I got out of the van last night and felt the front wheels, they were warmer than the rears but not like I couldn't put my hand on them. And I was driving in hiot weather, form Philly to Wilmington and back, maybe 75mi.

So, at first I suspected wheel bearings but everything I read mentioned that they usually make lower rumbly sorta sounds. Also the I found a receipt in the glove box that showed the wheel bearings were replaced and packed less than 20k ago. So I never thought they would be an issue.

Then I saw in the FSM in the brake section that if you hear squeely noises while driving you should check this "wear indicater" thingy on the rotor, if its making contact then replace the pads.

Now I thought the pads were okay, the previous owner mentioned they were probably 40% or so but I did drive cross country fully loaded and have done maybe 7k since then.

I'd like to diagnose this without incurring an expensive shop fee. I can do the brake pads myself and may even try to tackle wheel bearings too, but I don't want to go just changing stuff out if its not the problem!

How do I verify the issue? Any leads?

thanks!

mark in Philly

[timsrv]

Pull the front wheels and look at the pad thickness. If the wear indicators are dragging replace the front pads. These are pretty easy to do and only require basic tools. For somebody that hasn't done this before, the hardest part will be pushing the caliper piston back into the caliper. They make special tools for doing this, and even though I have them I usually just use an old pad and a big pair of channel locks. A big "C" clamp would work as well.

Note: When you push the caliper piston back it will be pushing brake fluid backwards into your master cylinder reservoir. So, unless you use a Mity-Vac to remove fluid from the master 1st, or unless you crack the caliper bleeder nipples, it will most likely overflow the reservoir and make a mess. I prefer the Mity-Vac method as opening the bleeder nipples could possibly allow air into the system. Tim

[abracadabra]

So these are actually designed to make noise when they get low even without braking?

Don't most pads make the squealing noise only when you use the brakes? I guess thats just the experience I've had, with my old 240d Mercedes, the pads make a racket when they get low so you know to change 'em. But they never made a sound when driving, only when braking.

I'll have to get the wheel off and look, problem is I live on a busy street in a huge city so doing these things is a little strange. When I need to do work (change oil etc) I cruise to my parents house in the country 80 miles away but I can't do that just to take a wheel off. Guess I'll just take the curb side one off, see whats up.

mark

[timsrv]

Yes, they squeal all the time........especially while using and for several minutes after using the brakes. The tone will change when you step on the brakes because they drag harder when pressure is on the pads. Usually they start touching when the brakes are at about 20%. You could most likely drive another 10k miles or so before damage occurs, but since pad wear isn't always even it's better to address this it right away. So how many miles have you put on the van since the front pads were at 40%? If you've put over 10k miles on it this could be normal. If it's been less than that and/or you find extreme wear differences from one side to the other, you could have a sticking slider on one of your calipers. Of course I'm still assuming the noise is due to worn brakes. The next step is to inspect them closely. Tim

[abracadabra]

Well I do believe I've traveled 7k or so since the pads were at 40% (which was an estimate I think the previous owner made, I can't remember exactly) so we'll see what I find tomorrow, I'll find a spot to park and pull the wheels off to have a look see.

mark

[abracadabra]

Oh, I should add that the van was driven VERY loaded down across the country where the brakes were certainly put to the test.
As well, we do ALOT of city driving, traffic, stop/go. AND, my wife's job has her running around all over the are for farmer's market runs so I think the "normal" wear curve for brake pads in this case can be quite a bit accelerated, am I correct?

Of course, once again, I gotta pull the wheel off and see.

mark

[timsrv]

Yeah, severe service definitely makes a difference........then there's the pads. There are so many types (metallic, semi-metallic, hard compounds, soft compounds) it's impossible to accurately estimate how many miles you'll get. I only buy genuine Toyota pads, then I know I'm getting high quality. Tim

[abracadabra]

Okay, problem solved.

The wear indicator was dragging on the LF and almost dragging on the RF. The wear was pretty even on both sides.

The rotors looked okay, the calipers looked like crap (crusty/popped dust cover) but I put the pads in and got on my way. Paid $84 with tax for Toyota pads.

Next time I'll have to do the calipers, but not for awhile!

mark

[timsrv]

Wow, sorry to hear your local Toyota dealer is such a rip-off. MSRP on those (the price recommended by Toyota to charge retail customers) is $56.99. Toyota MSRP is typically around a 100% mark-up from the price they pay. The on-line Toyota parts houses like www.1stToyotaParts.com will charge you around $40.00 for the exact same thing (of course they'll usually hit you with around $10 shipping).

That aside, I'm glad it was only pads. Even though they raped you on price at least you did get genuine Toyota. If I had a choice of paying $20 for unknown aftermarket quality VS paying $84 for Toyota quality, I think I'd still buy the Toyota ones. Other parts like calipers & rotors I wouldn't care so much about. For those I'd just go for the cheapest ones that www.rockauto.com sells. I've had pretty good luck with going aftermarket on parts like that. Tim

[gojamsgo]

Thanks is for this. I've been hearing the same noise for a couple days. What I need to know is if I can put the US parts on my 87 JDM master ace.

[timsrv]

Good question. You're in the section where we talk about US market vans. JDM may be different? Go to the section for diesel vans as those guys should know http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?25-Toyota-Vans-Diesel. I think our moderator JDMVANMAN has a JDM 4wd van, so he might be a good one to ask. Tim