LED Headlights ... and troubleshooting problems after install

[LateralTech]

I purchased some 4x6 LED Headlights from Amazon and installed a set today.

The ones I bought are called "AOSI 4PCS 4x6 LED Headlight 15 Cree Chip Sealed Beam" I got them for $92 open box, but at $120 normal price, its a good deal.
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Though I think all the brands of this light are mostly the same ones.

Easy enough to install, just like any other headlights.

For the Low Beam only 6 of the LEDs light up and at 3 watts a bulb, thats only using 18 watts.

For High Beam, all of them =45 watts.

I had to switch two of the pins on the low beam light to get only 6 to light up, otherwise they were all lit up and that is so overly bright.

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Honestly, the low beam with 6 LEDs are so bright, I had to angle the light almost as far down as it would go. The high beam is beyond crazy bright and its just one hooked up right now.

I will try them out over the next week and I will report back if I get flashed from other drivers / how they feel on longer night rides.

In the mean time, they look AWESOME!
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[Carbonized]

Any news? Can you explain the pin switch? They sure look great, I would do the mod if they improve night vision.

[whatvan]

I'm ISO new headlights. Been thinking of an upgrade like this. How have they worked out over the last few weeks?

[zak99b5]

I'd like to see pattern and throw/distance shots of these lights compared to the halogens you already have installed.

Apparent brightness isn't a good indication of headlight performance. You want the light projected down the road. A lot of light close to the vehicle may make you think you can see better, but your vision down the road, where it needs to be, will be worse.

[Carbonized]

Took a quick look-see on Amazon and boy I'm all :cnfsd: and :dizzy:. For what is apparently the same stuff, prices are all over the place! From $ 70.00 to almost $ 200.00 :?: What's up with that?

[terrence]

Those look sick.

[spacecruisers]

how are these working out for you? and how did you wire them exactly? I'd like to swap out my sealed beams with these on my '87.

[spacecruisers]

PO mentioned they had done something to run low beams with the switch in high beam position because they were having issues and that was the only way they could get the headlights working for daily driving, so I dont know what exactly is going on, and im very unexperienced with electrical diagrams and issues (looked through the service manual a bit but can't quite figure out what im looking for) I will say a lot of the PO's "work" is very shoddy and the van was overall very neglected. Basically though, the outer lights only came on with high beam engaged, the inner lights (which i believe are supposed to be the brights) never came on at all. in fact, they were unplugged.

Anyway, installed these new LED headlights (http://amzn.to/2ytfjY2) I got off amazon, when i turn the switch to the headlight position the low beams dont come on, but when i turn it to high beam all 4 lights will turn on and the blue high beam dash indicator turns on and off properly. everything seems to be working perfectly except the absence of low beams. I took some photos of the harness and will attach those below. there are 3 pins, "drive", "pass", and "ground", see the pictures for which wires are running into which.

The pins on both sides of the connector below the steering column aren't burnt out as some other threads have mentioned. the pins are in the proper position on the connector according to the service manual. not sure if the pins on the harness are wired properly or not, couldn't find it in the manual. see photos.

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[JDM VANMAN]

Not to sound rude but the connectors look in pretty bad shape, maybe that's one of the issues with the lights:?: I don't know any electrical work, I'm just making comment.

[spacecruisers]

Not to sound rude but the connectors look in pretty bad shape, maybe that's one of the issues with the lights:?: I don't know any electrical work, I'm just making comment.

i tested with a multimeter and get a steady voltage around 11.5, i think the connectors are ok TBH, just a little dirty.... that desert southwest dust has coated every surface in this van, ha ha.

[spacecruisers]

heres a photo from the listing on amazon. I've got the outer lights wired according to the second diagram (on the right) and the inner lights wired according to the first diagram (on the left) -

side note: on these new bulbs the high beam is a red wire, low beam is white, ground is black. how the low/hi beam works on these is 6 LED's are on for lo-beam and all 15 are on for hi-beam. i think I've got them wired correctly.... i could be wrong however, ha ha

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[spacecruisers]

ok im sorry, i guess typing that out and visualizing it i see that im an idiot now! i had the inner lights wired differently than the outer lights (see previous post). having the PO tell me they changed something i guess ended up being my scapegoat for my own personal error, lol. i will say there appears to be something going on with the switch, sometimes when im switching back to low beam it will flicker and go dim and i have to jiggle the handle a tiny bit and it will flicker back to full brightness. do i need a new switch?

should rename this thread "LED headlight upgrade" now! Once again, here is the set I ordered (http://amzn.to/2ytfjY2) if anyone else wants to try this upgrade!

i also switched the white (lo) and red (hi) on the outers so it only lights up 6 of the led's because they're waaay to bright otherwise. so heres how it works now. with low beams activated, the outers turn on in low beam mode with only 6 of the 15 leds illuminated. when i change to high beams, the outers turn off and the inners turn on in high beam mode with all 15 leds illuminated.

It would be nice to have both inner and outer lights on in high beam mode - is that possible or will i have to do some re-wiring? any electrical wizards that could think that through?

Heres how i have it wired now:

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[spacecruisers]

Decided to do this myself and was able to figure it out if anyone else on this thread has questions, let me know! I'd love to help others do this "upgrade"

I bought these lights (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016OOUUWS/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) (set of 4) on amazon. i actually watched them for a while to see if a warehouse deal open box item came up and it did! $90 for a set of 4 is a great deal but i actually got them open box like new condition for $68!! figured its worth a shot for that price. the stock sealed beams were unbearably dim. driving back highways at night with those was terrifying.

As OP mentioned, the bulbs themselves have 2 settings. A high beam mode where all 15 LEDs light up (insanely bright) and a low beam mode where only 6 LED's light up. I have them working now. When I turn on low beam the outers turn on in low beam 6 LED mode. When I switch to brights, the outers turn off and the inners come on in high beam mode with all 15 LEDs lit up. it would be nice to have the outers stay on when i flick the switch into high beam mode but im not sure how to accomplish that, probably have to rewire the whole headlight situation I'd imagine.

Switching the tabs is super easy. theres a little tab on the side of the pin you can push flat and the pin slides right out. switch and slide into its new spot and use your knife or whatever to bend the tab back outward to keep the pin from sliding out when you plug it in.

Here are photos of how I wired them up:

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Here it is with everything set up! Oogles of light!
Once i get my LEDs in the mail for the dash, i'll be running 100% LEDs all throughout! Light bar and bumper LEDs in the last photo as a bonus. If i could get all 4 headlights going on high beam i'd add a little bit more to an absolutely blinding amount of light :weld:

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[bikerjosh]

Nice job. Any pics of the light pattern on a wall/garage door or outside to show illuminated distance?
thanks

[Carbonized]

I'm I wrong? but I count 15 LEDs per light. I am not an electrician by any standard, but if you bridge the "high" of both (outer and inner) wouldn't you get 24 (30) LEDs to lit when you turn on the high beam?

[spacecruisers]

I'm I wrong? but I count 15 LEDs per light. I am not an electrician by any standard, but if you bridge the "high" of both (outer and inner) wouldn't you get 24 (30) LEDs to lit when you turn on the high beam?

It is 15, lol. I must have been tired last night. 15 for high beam and 6 for low.

not sure about bridging...im no electrician myself. guess i could try it? anyone can chime in on the thought!

bikerjosh , ill try and get those photos tonight.

[Jbbishop2]

Thanks for posting your installation pictures, mistershmi. I think I'm going to try your setup. Have you noticed whether oncoming drivers object to the brighter lights?

[bikerjosh]

Anyway to wire it up to have all 4 lights on low beam, and then all 4 on high beam when switched to high beam?
thanks Josh

[Santa Cruzer]

Yes! My headlight SUCK! This is a great idea, have you got pulled over, flashed?
Heading to Amazon right now!

[Ace MM]

Anyway to wire it up to have all 4 lights on low beam, and then all 4 on high beam when switched to high beam?
Seems a waste to not have all 4 blazing.
Can you get only the outer with low and high? Swapping the R \ W in the connecter???

In ca., you can't have 4 low beams as headlights...:wall:

[Carbonized]

The problem is not in the wiring. That should be easy. Aiming is the show stopper here. I suppose you could keep the low beams on ( aiming low and near) while in High beam( aiming high and far), but you would not want the High beams to stay on (even on only 6 LEDs) when crossing another car or city driving in Low beam. So using the four head lights together is only possible in high beam. If that makes any sense?

[bikerjosh]

@mistershmi, any chance to take a picture of the beam pattern against a wall to view cut off? Still working on the interior of my van, but hope to get to this soon. -Josh

[spacecruisers]

@mistershmi, any chance to take a picture of the beam pattern against a wall to view cut off? Still working on the interior of my van, but hope to get to this soon. -Josh


hey man, sorry I've been AWOL for the last month. i moved up to the seattle area and my van is still in utah at the moment. im planning on going back to get it maybe around the holidays or in spring (to see the family) and making a trip of it on the way back (do some camping and what not)

i was so busy with the move i didn't get a chance to test the pattern at all. sorry about that. once i get it back i will make sure to do it.

[timsrv]

I've had a set of these sitting in my cart at Amazon for almost 2 years now. Too afraid to pull the trigger due to not knowing how the light pattern will disperse (same concern everybody else has). If I find out they will light things up "down the road" and not blind other drivers, I'll do the upgrade too. Until then, I'm still running my OE type sealed beams. Tim

[LateralTech]

I installed the drivers side about 5 months ago and then got lazy and just installed the passenger side last week.

The drivers side set has held up well, but I can tell the set I put on last week looks slightly newer and clearer. These are plastic, not glass, so I don't expect them to last forever like the halogens.

I adjusted them by parking behind another car on the street about 5-8 feet back (like how far you would be at a stop light). I had to adjust them down quite a bit! So far I haven't gotten flashed by any on coming cars and I have passed several cops.

The lights look awesome and perform so much better then the originals. Worth the $100 for sure. They bring a touch of modern to the van for sure!

Installation advice - Do both sides at the same time. You may need to rearrange the pins on the lights, but either they will work or they won't. I had to move some around on one side, but I did buy my lights open box.

I did end up setting my low beams to have all 15 LEDs on. Super bright and nice at night.

[bikerjosh]

Still haven't the pulled the trigger on LED headlights, one of the things I wasn't crazy was the way the lights looked; themselves. Found these in two different styles Clear and Traditional (ok, not sure what to call it-normal)?



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J4GFS52/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=b08d4e965fdcbfeff55119c99a0a4510_S
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J4GG4B4/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AFCK09M9VCUCF
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Tempting, maybe once I repaint the van, I'll spring for a couple pairs?

[timsrv]

Definitely keep us posted. I still haven't pulled the trigger on the ones I've been considering. I've been burned by poor quality headlights before, so I'm very hesitant to buy unless I get specific information regarding how well they defuse light. Also, I would rather avoid plastic lenses. OE plastic usually isn't the greatest, but it's acceptable. I got some replacement Chinese headlights for my Previa once, and those things turned yellow in 6 months. Didn't really matter though because light diffusion was so terrible you couldn't aim them or see worth a crap........even from day 1. I noticed the other day I have a crack in one of my OE style headlamps, so I'm debating on going with Sylvanias from WalMart agian, or perhaps trying some LEDs.........tough choice (unless somebody can give me a good review). Tim

[zak99b5]

Personally, I'd go with something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007JNXAL2?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&showDetailTechData=1#technical-data

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41A8NJrIW1L._SX300_.jpg

These are not in stock, but have glass lenses and take H4 bulbs.

On my Vanagon I got Cibie H4 7" round e-codes, and they were awesome lights. Easily outperformed the original sealed beam lights that were on the bus. Better than the Depo HIDs I put in my A4 (though I did use a cheap DDM HID ballast and capsule).

[timsrv]

In scrolling through those pics on the Amazon listing, I'd be worried they stick out too far in the back. If that's the case I suppose you could cut the baskets and use a hole saw on the sheet metal behind, but the holes would come through to the area under the dash. If anybody tries these and verifies feasability and/or works out another solution, please post. Tim

[timsrv]

Lol, I just found those on eBay.............based on the price I think it's safe to assume I will not be trying these :LOL2:. Tim

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENSSI-4x6-H4666-Square-Chrome-Clear-Housing-Glass-Lens-H4-Headlight-Lamp-2-pack-/361447777262?hash=item5427f763ee:g:vvUAAOSwrklVWjQ h&vxp=mtr

[bikerjosh]

At that price they better come with either $950 or more in the box or add 100hp & 30+mpg.:clap:

[zak99b5]

Ouch that price is high.

[zak99b5]

What about these?? https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Housing-Light-Diamond-Conversion/dp/B00IZMYNFS/ref=pd_lpo_263_tr_t_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=DVMDQZN09XTEWKCEW6TR

$42, glass lenses.

[zak99b5]

Actually, these Hellas seem better--and I would prefer the look of them as well (though I have a Previa, not a TV currently).

https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-003177801-164x103mm-Conversion-Headlamp/dp/B001G72UE0/ref=pd_sbs_263_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001G72UE0&pd_rd_r=EF22ETBB992ABQTJ8C3K&pd_rd_w=wGcCr&pd_rd_wg=EnSuz&psc=1&refRID=EF22ETBB992ABQTJ8C3K

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71BwhS0FHQL._SX355_.jpg

$100 a pair.

[timsrv]

Darn! I clicked on the 1st link for the $42 ones, and on a whim bought 2 pair. Then I came back here to find that last post...........I agree, I like the 2nd ones better as they look like OE. Also they look the same as the factory depth. On the ones I just purchased it doesn't show pics or dimensions of the back, so I guess I'll be the guinea pig for that. I'll keep you posted as to how they fit and how they perform. Price was reasonable at least (assuming they work). Tim

[spacecruisers]

I put some hella h4 conversions in my 93 Toyota pickup and they're great quality. Glass lenses, came with standard h4 bulbs. Much better than the stock sealed beams

Sorry I've sorta been AWOL in the forum and haven't been able to give updates on my LEDs, I moved up to WA state and have been looking for work so my van is still in Utah. Probably going to pick it up in the spring (march possibly?)

anyway, ideally I'd like to get some housings with glass lenses and LED h4 equivalent bulb. The ones bikerjosh posted look intriguing...

[bikerjosh]

@timsrv- Looking forward to hear your findings.
All four of my oem lights have condensation inside just from sitting in the rain. Not exactly "sealed beam" i guess? :wall:

[bikerjosh]

Darn! I clicked on the 1st link for the $42 ones, and on a whim bought 2 pair. Then I came back here to find that last post...........I agree, I like the 2nd ones better as they look like OE. Also they look the same as the factory depth. On the ones I just purchased it doesn't show pics or dimensions of the back, so I guess I'll be the guinea pig for that. I'll keep you posted as to how they fit and how they perform. Price was reasonable at least (assuming they work). Tim
@timsrv,
did you get a chance to try out these lights?
thanks

[timsrv]

Due to all the weather problems UPS got delayed. Finally came yesterday, but sadly they are huge on the back and I doubt they will fit. I think I might buy the Hellas too, at least then it won't be a waste of time taking my old lights out. I'll report back what fits and what doesn't........eventually :yes:. Tim

[Jbbishop2]

I wanted LED headlights, myself, but after reading the thread I decided to buy the Hella H4 conversions. I was highly motivated after driving home in one of the storms we had in Northern California recently, and with those old dim lights I hit a few "stream crossings" on the road before I saw them. The first two were Amazon warehouse deals ($35.78 ea), which only included the reflector housings. I bought Philips X-treme Vision H4 bulbs ($26/pair) to go in those. After fooling around with those and trying to figure out which wire should have gone where, I bought a Hella conversion kit that included two reflectors, two bulbs, and two adapter harnesses (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G72UE0 ). That was $99 a couple days ago when I bought it, but I see it's only $86 now. Grab some quick!

Even though the inner lights are high beam only, I still put the H4 hi/lo bulb in them and only used the high beam connection. There's no need to swap leads in the connector for the H4, they line up correctly as they are .

The Hella housings fit perfectly, install quickly, and look conventional. One thing about those old dim sealed beams, they weren't sealed any more. The lenses fell off the reflector housings when I removed them. They were dim partly because halogens get dim over time anyway, but mostly because much of the reflective coating inside was gone.

This is the beam comparison, looking up the dirt road in front of my house ( though the difference is more impressive on a straight stretch of dark pavement):
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(the line across is a crack in the windshield, and the silhouette is the Scooby Doo on the dash)

So while I didn't get the LEDs I wanted, and I spent about twice as much, I really like the way these turned out.

John

[timsrv]

(the line across is a crack in the windshield, and the silhouette is the Scooby Doo on the dash)............

Okay, glad you said that. At 1st I was like "This has got to be photoshop because there's no way a cat would be patient enough to sit in the same exact spot while replacing headlights" LOL. But now I can totally see it's a Scooby head :rol:. How long have you been driving with these? I'm interested in knowing if oncoming drivers flash their brights. Tim

[TheCrippler]

I really want to upgrade the headlights on my townace but it has a different lens then the US model. Do you think its possible to just replace the bulb in the original lens? I've seen plenty of LED bulb kits on amazon, (the little corncob LED array that is supposed to fit where the regular bulb went.

I hate having weak headlights, I want the crew of the ISS to see my driving on the 405 from space!

[Jbbishop2]

How long have you been driving with these? I'm interested in knowing if oncoming drivers flash their brights. Tim
Just last night, so far, a 30-mile commute on a busy two-lane rural highway. No oncoming flashes yet, not any high/low signaling from cars in front of me in my lane, either. When I pull up behind other cars at a light, even little low ones, I can see the top of the cutoff of my low beams below their rear window. That seems to make sense from the description of the ECE headlights (the Hella conversions are ECE-compliant) vs the US standard (from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp#Low_beam)):
The international ECE Regulations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECE_Regulations) for filament headlamps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp#Tungsten-halogen_light_sources)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp#cite_note-19) and for high-intensity discharge headlamps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_discharge_lamp)[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp#cite_note-20) specify a beam with a sharp, asymmetric cutoff preventing significant amounts of light from being cast into the eyes of drivers of preceding or oncoming cars. Control of glare is less strict in the North American SAE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Automotive_Engineers) beam standard contained in FMVSS / CMVSS 108 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standard_108).[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp#cite_note-21)

[Jbbishop2]

Do you think its possible to just replace the bulb in the original lens?
Unfortunately, no, unless you have a way to cut a hole in the glass, and then you'd have to epoxy the receptacle to the glass (a trick (http://www.instructables.com/id/Reusing-old-motorcycle-sealed-headlights/) that's possible with some old motorcycle round headlights). The back of the sealed-beam unit only has the individual leads for the bulb terminals coming out (photo below)

You might want to replace the old ones with the Sylvania units that are brighter tan the standard ones, The H4651 for the inner (high beam only) units and the H4656 for the outer (low.high) (https://www.amazon.com/SYLVANIA-SilverStar-Performance-Headlight-Contains/dp/B000C1A1V0?th=1) . I used some like these on my ’85 Toyoa pickup, and they were definitely an improvement over the old ones. As I said above, the reflectors in my old units aren’t reflecting very much (see second picture below), so even if you could get a new bulb in there it wouldn't be like new.
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[TheCrippler]

Looks like it could be modified carefully but I'd be a little worried about the pattern/focus.

Maybe worth a try?

[Jbbishop2]

Maybe worth a try?

I wouldn’t want to discourage anybody from a cool DIY project, but with the degradation of the reflective surface (and like you say, the pattern/focus being set up for a completely different bulb), I’d think the chances of success would be kind of low. With the cost of four standard sealed beam replacements that would at least have new reflectors being about $30 (and four upgraded sealed beams being about $90) maybe it’s not worth your time.

Unless it’s just fun, of course. Maybe try cutting out on an old sealed beam unit and then buy a cheap standard new sealed beam to make the finished product sine the reflective surface would be new?

[TheCrippler]

Unfortunately, no, unless you have a way to cut a hole in the glass, and then you'd have to epoxy the receptacle to the glass (a trick (http://www.instructables.com/id/Reusing-old-motorcycle-sealed-headlights/) that's possible with some old motorcycle round headlights). The back of the sealed-beam unit only has the individual leads for the bulb terminals coming out (photo below)

You might want to replace the old ones with the Sylvania units that are brighter tan the standard ones, The H4651 for the inner (high beam only) units and the H4656 for the outer (low.high) (https://www.amazon.com/SYLVANIA-SilverStar-Performance-Headlight-Contains/dp/B000C1A1V0?th=1) . I used some like these on my ’85 Toyoa pickup, and they were definitely an improvement over the old ones. As I said above, the reflectors in my old units aren’t reflecting very much (see second picture below), so even if you could get a new bulb in there it wouldn't be like new.


So it looks like the townace has pretty different headlights. I still haven't pulled mine apart but I found some pictures of the same part. Looks like its just a bulb on the townace? Is the big rubber gasket where the hi and low go? 2 bulbs one lens? I've never taken anything like this apart so not very familiar. I'd be pretty happy if I could just plug a fat LED corncob in there though.

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[Jbbishop2]

>So it looks like the townace has pretty different headlights.

Sorry, I wasn't smart enough to catch that we weren't talking about the same vans!

> Is the big rubber gasket where the hi and low go?

The rubber gasket in the photo pulls off the back to reveal the clip that holds the hi/lo bulb. You can certainly try replacing that bulb with an LED version, or with a brighter version of the halogen bulb like the Philips X-treme Vision.

[JDM VANMAN]

There's only 1 bulb in there behind the rubber gasket, here's a close up of a spare that I have check it out-

1) remove rubber gasket
2) push down and slide metal paper clip looking holder
3) pull bulb out

good luck:thmbup:

JDM

[TheCrippler]

Just ordered some LEDS. I'll post some pictures when i get them installed.

How do you remove the light from the townace? Is it the bolts on the inside then pull the assembly off the front?

[JDM VANMAN]

You can replace the bulbs by going in from the inside by the passenger feet and right about the accelerator pedal, you don't need to take the whole assembly out to change the bulb.

Check it out-

http://i.imgur.com/mLYtpcJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hmGaacw.jpg

[bikerjosh]

Quick question, anyone had trouble and/or solution to headlight trim rings (things that hold the headlight in from falling out)when they are just a little too small to fit over a 4"x6" light? Working on installing some LEDs from Octain Lighting and it seems like I need to grow the rings 1/16-1/8" in height and depth? Wouldn't trust my self trying to tack weld a piece in since the gauge is so thin, maybe pop rivot in an extension? Already tried stretching it, but no luck.
For some reason file uploads from phone keep failing, I update w/pic once I'm at work.
thanks

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[ingmire]

When I purchased my van the headlight relay connection was burnt out. A mechanic 'fixed' it for me. But when I drove home I realized only the brights worked. Then they 'fixed' it again and only the low beams worked.

Now I'm attempting to upgrade my low beams to the LED mentioned by some members here in the forum. But no matter the wiring configuration on the male end of the new LED lamp, the lamp only comes on on Hi beam mode. All 15 lights vs 5 lights (low beam mode).

I don't understand enough how the hi and low beam works in order to trouble shoot this. I'm fairly sure it has to do with what the mechanic did previously.

my low beam currently has a 3 prong adapter and hi beam 2.

when I put the ground in the left port and the red in the lower port I get all 15 lights. Any other configuration I get none.

how can I trouble shoot this?

Id like to be able to drive with the low beam setting on.

[Burntboot]

The problem with non-original equipment is it can induce unexpected variables and behaviours.

The quickest repair would involve reinstalling known good OEM lamps, then correct the wiring.
The wiring could be the hard part as you don't know what they did,hopefully their hacks will be obvious and the first thing to correct.
Then you can move onto correcting whatever the original fault was caused by.

Once everything is back to what it should be, then go ahead and upgrade the lamps.

[ingmire]

That's good advice. Thanks

[ncbrock]

So I put new LED headlights in and now my fog lights aren't getting any volts to them, but the switch is fine. I suspect it has something to do with the headlight circuit and how the new headlights function. It took some figuring out to get the LEDs to function in the same way the stock headlights work as in the low beams staying on when you switch to high beams. I have that part figured out the best I can. I haven't altered the stock headlight harness at all, just re-pinning the LED headlights. When just the low beams are on, the high beams are receiving very minimal voltage, so they are lit but not enough to really tell. I think without the LEDs being dual filament as in the stock sealed beams is throwing something off in the circuitry and causing the fog lights not to receive voltage since the car is seeing slight voltage to the high beams. Any thoughts?

http://i.imgur.com/0NtTcIb.jpg (https://imgur.com/0NtTcIb)

[VanCo]

I just installed some LEDs too. I'm not satisfied with the electrical portion of it though. I read the schematic and LEDs really aren't compatible out of the box. The van headlights have a single power wire and negative switched high and low beam. This is backward from how the LEDs are wired. In addition the high beam indicator and fog light relay require a positive signal backtracking from the headlight filament for power. LEDs do not provide the resistance necessary to light the incandescent dash bulb, or trigger the fog light relay. I'm planning to install 4 relays, one for each bulb (behind the dash) to swap the negative to positive and provide the proper positive power to the high and low beam, dash bulb and fog light wire.

I'm pretty sure this is why your fog lights don't work.

[ncbrock]

I just installed some LEDs too. I'm not satisfied with the electrical portion of it though. I read the schematic and LEDs really aren't compatible out of the box. The van headlights have a single power wire and negative switched high and low beam. This is backward from how the LEDs are wired. In addition the high beam indicator and fog light relay require a positive signal backtracking from the headlight filament for power. LEDs do not provide the resistance necessary to light the incandescent dash bulb, or trigger the fog light relay. I'm planning to install 4 relays, one for each bulb (behind the dash) to swap the negative to positive and provide the proper positive power to the high and low beam, dash bulb and fog light wire.

I'm pretty sure this is why your fog lights don't work.

The best I made it work with the stock wiring is:
1: Fog lights on all the time, the fog light switch also controls the low beams on or off, everything works as normal if you leave the fog lights on. If you turn the fog light switch off you lose low beams and fogs.
2: No fog lights at all, and high + low beam function as normal.

I think #2 is the best option and I’ll simply create a dedicated, related circuit for the fog lights. I don’t want to alter the stock wiring at all because I’m not great with wiring and these vans are already plagued with wiring issues.

[VanCo]

To avoid electrical issues either the incandescent headlights should be put back in, or the wiring should be modified to send the proper voltage and signals to the LED headlights. The way the headlights are hooked up now is the definition of a "wiring issue."

[Burntboot]

:whs:

[JDM VANMAN]

Quick question, anyone had trouble and/or solution to headlight trim rings (things that hold the headlight in from falling out)when they are just a little too small to fit over a 4"x6" light? Working on installing some LEDs from Octain Lighting and it seems like I need to grow the rings 1/16-1/8" in height and depth? Wouldn't trust my self trying to tack weld a piece in since the gauge is so thin, maybe pop rivot in an extension? Already tried stretching it, but no luck.
For some reason file uploads from phone keep failing, I update w/pic once I'm at work.
thanks

edit:4959

bikerjosh,

Were you able to figure out the retainer ring issue?

Thank you

JDM

[JDM VANMAN]

I just installed some LEDs too. I'm not satisfied with the electrical portion of it though. I read the schematic and LEDs really aren't compatible out of the box. The van headlights have a single power wire and negative switched high and low beam. This is backward from how the LEDs are wired. In addition the high beam indicator and fog light relay require a positive signal backtracking from the headlight filament for power. LEDs do not provide the resistance necessary to light the incandescent dash bulb, or trigger the fog light relay. I'm planning to install 4 relays, one for each bulb (behind the dash) to swap the negative to positive and provide the proper positive power to the high and low beam, dash bulb and fog light wire.

I'm pretty sure this is why your fog lights don't work.

VanCo,

did you happen to do the workng upgrade to make the lights work? If so can you give us an update on the process?

Thank you

JDM

[JDM VANMAN]

I’m looking to do the upgrade but would like some more insight on the wiring- ie: wiring harnesses, ballast, polarity.... etc.

Not only that but if anyone is able to post photos of the light array when sitting in the driver seat and the distance the lights shine down a dark road, I’d like to get an idea of “how wide how deep” the lights shine.

Any advice and visuals would be fantastic!!:thmbup:

JDM

[bikerjosh]

bikerjosh,

Were you able to figure out the retainer ring issue?

Thank you

JDM

Yes, but in a round about way. I found that mid 80's Fords had a very similar trim ring that would fit the 4x6" LED lights, but the tabs and screw holes were in the wrong place. I cut off the tabs from the Ford rings and cut the tabs out of the Toyota rings with the ring "L" shape on edge. I pop riveted the Toyota tabs on the Ford rings in the appropriate spots then ground down the rivet heads. Easy Peasy. :rol:

I will try and get some pics tonight. thanks

[JDM VANMAN]

Thank you for the update and the information on the new modification for the light trim ring:thmbup:

I'm still very curious about the light array ie; how far ahead amd how wide in the shoulder area do you have visibility?

JDM

[VanCo]

VanCo,

did you happen to do the workng upgrade to make the lights work? If so can you give us an update on the process?

Thank you

JDM

I did get them working perfectly. All lights and indicators work just like they were intended from the factory.

I ended up using two relays to swap the negative power signal to positive. I used two, one for the right side and one for the left. I haven't drawn up a schematic, or documented the process though. The process isn't difficult, but it is not straight forward either. There is a bit of factory wiring harness cutting and splicing.

[bikerjosh]

I did get them working perfectly. All lights and indicators work just like they were intended from the factory.

I ended up using two relays to swap the negative power signal to positive. I used two, one for the right side and one for the left. I haven't drawn up a schematic, or documented the process though. The process isn't difficult, but it is not straight forward either. There is a bit of factory wiring harness cutting and splicing.

Interested in seeing the schematic, wondering if my fuse on the right side lights blew due to using the stock wiring for the headlights when I went to LEDs. Replaced the fuse but haven't been driving the van lately.

[VanCo]

Interested in seeing the schematic, wondering if my fuse on the right side lights blew due to using the stock wiring for the headlights when I went to LEDs. Replaced the fuse but haven't been driving the van lately.

Sure thing. I just threw this together from memory.

Here is the factory schematic:

8044

Here is what I did to modify the factory wiring to make the LEDs work correctly:

8045

The access points I used to wire everything were at the grommets behind the headlight buckets (by driver and passenger feet), and the plug that comes out of the steering column.Once I got it all figured out the actual wiring portion was very simple.

This is obviously not plug an play. You will also need to re-pin the headlight plugs to match the LEDs as well.

[boogieman]

im considering installing just high beam socket l.e.d. 4x6, am i correct in assuming i wouldnt need to create a positive switched circuit?

[boogieman]

well....no, you cant just add high beam leds...thought because there was no switching on the inner high beam light it might work but it doesnt.

[VanCo]

How didn't it work, what was it/wasn't it doing?

[boogieman]

no led light up, i tried grounding the r/y, and r/blue to high beam on led and it lit but no outer beam at that point...led was bench tested to be good this is with stock wiring..

update!!!

hold on, just tried again on drivers side and its working, i may have an issue with the passenger side circuit..

there are people that are having luck with plug and play all 4 led head lights working properly, i guess there may be differences in the brand circuitry maybe?

[VanCo]

Yeah, just high beams should work if you're getting the proper power and ground. You just need to work out the polarity on the plug.

The only way they would be plug and play is if they were specifically made for a static power, switched ground circuit. I haven't seen any like that. Some people are saying they get them to work because they will function, but not exactly right. Without rewiring (you do have to repin the plugs) you can get:

Low beam: only outside low beam lit, no high beam
High beam: no outside beam lit at all, and inside high beam lit.

Stock is:
Low beam: low beam outside lit, no high beam
High beam: both inside and outside high beam lit

I wanted both high beams lit, like stock. That's why I made the wiring modification.

[Navphoto]

1051910519

[timsrv]

It's been a about a year since I addressed this issue on my van so I thought I'd update members with my experience. I purchased 2 sets of the lights linked to in post #33 of this thread. I installed them and found there was no issue with clearance in the back, but they totally sucked fitting into my retainer rings. Although glass, the outside dimensions of these lights are not accurate and required a considerable amount of work to make them fit correctly. Once installed I found the light they put out was actually worse than the factory type sealed beams. I cannot recommend these lights as they were a waste of time and money.

Since being able to see is important, I decided to go with what I perceived to be the best quality and I purchased 1 set of Hella 003177801 High/Low beam H4 Headlamps (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G72UE0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and 1 set of Hella 003177821 High beam H1 Headlamps (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G78DVE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). For the low/high bulbs I purchased BEAMTECH H4 (9003 Hi/Lo) LED Headlight Kit (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XHD78DQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). For the high beams I purchased KATANA H1 LED Headlight Bulb kit (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T33BK9D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

The Hella headlights fit perfectly in the rings/baskets and there was ample room behind the baskets for the LED bulbs. In order for the H4 bulbs to work I had to rearrange the pins in the bulb sockets but I have pin extraction tools so that was pretty basic. The High beams plugged right in with no mods. The Hella's disperse the light nicely and I was able to accurately aim. The results were absolutely amazing. On low beam they are impressive and I don't get flashed by oncoming drivers. The high beams are incredibly bright and even more impressive. Another advantage is these being LED's they only pull a small amount of electrical current while providing much more light. This is worth noting as our electrical systems are aging and reducing stress is great way to increase longevity. I'm sure there are other solutions to the lame stock headlights, but I'm very happy with this upgrade and I highly recommend.

There are however a few minor cons:

*High beam indicator no longer works. I'm not sure why, but if/when I get back into this I'll just run a wire from a high beam bulb to the indicator bulb. In the mean time I've learned to feel the position of the stalk and I'm able to identify high/low based on that. One thing is for certain, those few times I've forgotten and left the high beams on, oncoming drivers will let me know :doh:.

*Low beam creates speaker static when I'm in an area of marginal FM radio reception (annoying). This doesn't seem to be an issue if I have strong reception.

*High beam bulbs have fans and they are noisy. You can't hear them over the engine, but they will catch your attention if you turn them on with the engine off.

[VanCo]

Hey Tim,

With your setup do all 4 high beams light up when you turn on the high beams?

[timsrv]

Yes, and they are amazingly bright.........especially the H1 high beams.

[timsrv]

BTW, I measured current draw of the originals then the LEDs. Interestingly enough the LED's on dim pull a disproportionate amount of power. I'm not sure why that is, but the amount of light is very well proportioned. Even so, the amp draw of the LED low beams is still an improvement over the originals. Amp draw improvement on the high beams is phenomenal. Here's the numbers:

Original headlamps dedicated high beam bulbs draw 3.3A each
Original headlamps high/low bulb when on high draw 2.5A each
Original headlamps combined amp draw when on high = 11.6A
Original headlamps high/low bulb when on low draw 2.45A each
Original headlamps combined amp draw when on low = 4.9A

H1 LED high beam bulbs draw .53A each
H4 LED dual beam bulbs when on high draw .72A each
LED bulbs combined amp draw when on high = 2.5A
H4 LED dual beam bulbs when on low draw 1.77A each
LED bulbs combined amp draw when on low = 3.54A

[VanCo]

Tim,

The amp draw numbers you listed are the result of the H4 high/low outside light not getting the correct power signal, and not functioning properly. If you were to watch the outside H4 lights when switching to high beam they will most likely dim. The only way to get LED lights to work as they should is to modify the power signal. This is an issue with many early Toyota vehicles. There are even H4 headlight relay kits available to correct the issue. I didn't want to post a link to any specific kit because a lot of them are cheap crap. This is why I decided to make a custom solution.

[timsrv]

That's interesting. Correct or not, I've been very happy with the results. At some point I may look at this again, but I'm a busy guy and there's always lots of other fires to put out. Thanks for the info. Tim

[timsrv]

I happened to see this on Amazon and thought it might be an easy fix for those "electrically challenged": https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XJ771YQ/ref=pe_26602060_529207830_em_1p_3_lm

[jimijuma]

Hey Tim,

I am thinking about going with your exact specified set up and have a few questions.

First, I have factory fog lights on my van. Do you think going with your LED setup will affect them? I know some in this thread ran into issues having their fog lights work after going LED.

You also mentioned having to rearrange the pins in the high/low bulb socket for the H4s. Could you tell me exactly where each pin has to be relocated? Also, what special tools do you use for this?

I also wonder why your bright indicator on your cluster no longer functions.....weird.

In the end after reading through this thread, :dizzy:, I may just go with Sylvania SilverStars, keep everything stock. Not as good as some of your guys set up but not terrible. I have used SilverStars for all of the Toyota's I have owned with this headlight setup and there is some improvement. I haven't decided. I'm not sure I want to sacrifice the use (or novelty) of the factory fogs.

[timsrv]

Sorry for the late reply, I'm in my busy season and work loads are high. Regarding the pin lay-out, I looked on line and found a couple of nice diagrams showing how to rearrange. The problem was, these diagrams conflicted. Then I remembered I had a set of H4 adapters from another project years ago. I could have used them, but adding them to the mix seemed like an unnecessary mess in the headlight buckets, so just rearranged the pins in my connectors to match what the adapters would have done.

If you're looking at the 3 position socket, from the side that would be against the headlight the pins simply all move 1 position clockwise from their original location. The high beams (center headlights) only have 2 conductors, so if they don't work, simply reverse them (LED bulbs are polarity sensitive, when incandescent bulbs are not).

I don't know if I did it right or not, but all 4 headlights light up on high, and only the 2 outer ones light up on low. The amount of light they put out seems to be right, but I find it odd the high/low bulbs pull more than the highs when turned to low. For that reason I suspect I may have the high/low conductors reversed on those sockets, but the light they put out is very pleasing and I'm not getting flashed by on-coming cars.

for removing pins, I have special pin extracting tools, but a very small precision slot tip, or maybe even a piece of paperclip might work. You just poke it in through the front of the socket into the smaller slots on the side of conductor. There's a little tab inside that deflects and when you get it pushed into the right spot you can pull the wire right out the back of the socket. You don't need to do anything special to put the pins back in, but I will usually re-arch the little tab on the pin so it will more positively lock when the pin is put into it's new slot.

Regarding sealed beams, I've run different brands of those over the years, and nothing I've seen even comes close to my LED's. I spent a bit of $$$ on the parts, but I'm very happy with the results. Tim

PS: There are no fog-lights on my van, so I can't answer that with certainty, but it would seem odd to me if the LED's would interfere with their operation. Tim

[Ian R.]

So I drove my van through Santa Barbra, Ca in one hell of a rain storm. I was driving 35 mph on the freeway and could barely see with the amount of rain coming down. I ended up hitting a lake on the freeway that I could not see. It was a real white knuckle underpants changing experience. This has prompted me up look for head light upgrades. I found these lights that are marketed as plug and play. Anyone have experience with them?

https://www.headlightexperts.com/low-beam-h4656-sealed-beam-led-headlight-conversion-kit

Ian

[captainspeky]

Those look a bit expensive and I'm guessing the lenses are plastic.This was my solution. Keeps the classic look with glass housings and is very bright but amiable.

KOOMTOOM Upgraded 4300K LED Bulb H4 9003 Fog Ligh/Headlight Bulbs with Canbus Error Free,Warm White 4300K Headlights 60W 16000LM 600% Super Brighter IP68 Rated, Pack of 2 https://a.co/d/0AMJZCq

12vMax 4 x 6 inch Glass Lens OEM Style Compatible With H4/9003 Halogen High & Low Beam Headlight Lamp Kit, Heat Resistant Metal Back https://a.co/d/7tZPc4v

I got 4300k for lows and, 5000k for high, though I can't honestly tell the difference between the two. They have a more natural light and aren't as annoying as the 6000k lcey white light every car has these days. I did loose the high beam indicator, but install was pretty straight forward without fittment or wiring issues. Also only cost about $150 for the whole set!

[Jan-Willem]

https://youtu.be/kIL6C_xLdUI?si=wu3k4Wlaa7TmG4ba

I ended with the JW speaker headlights, because they seem to be the only ones that are ECE certified, and over here they really check that at the yearly safety inspection. For me they were NOT plug and play. Physically, yes, but the van has on de low beam bulb, one 12v that is on with either thr low or high beam, and two grounds that are switched for use of either low or high. This is fine for incandescent bulbs that do not care about polarity, but it didn’t work for the JW speaker, ik had to rewire with a relay.

[Ian R.]

Thanks captain! They say the housing is glass, I ask to see if the lens is glass. How long have you been running your setup?

thanks Jan for sharing your setup. There are no in-depth inspections were I live, so ECE is less of a concern. Useless of course there is a risk of electrical fire?

[captainspeky]

Thanks captain! They say the housing is glass, I ask to see if the lens is glass. How long have you been running your setup?

I've been using these a about a year. They work great. Sometimes at start up some of the chips in the leds cut out causing subtle dimming in portions of the lights, but it's very subtle and inconsistent. Not really sure what's going on with that.

[Jan-Willem]

thanks Jan for sharing your setup. There are no in-depth inspections were I live, so ECE is less of a concern. Useless of course there is a risk of electrical fire?
No, the ECE specification is for the beam pattern. I think in the US there is the DOT beam pattern.
I wanted to say, that we have special/specific requirements for the beam pattern of the dipped beam light, but that isn't actually true. It is the US that has the different/alternative beam pattern :wnk:
If you look at the light units of the european Model-F, the australian tarago, or the JDM townace, of the same year, you see that the light units are very different. I think the US required those sealed beam headlights until 1984, right? Other markets used composite headlights.
However, I was looking for a led replacement of the sealed beam units, because I have a US-spec van, in europe. And as the european Model-F was really unloved over here, the chance of finding european headlights is slim. And the australian and jdm won't work either, as they drive on the other side of the road. So for me an ECE version of a 4x6 sealed beam unit was pretty much the only option.

But I shared the video, because they have tested several 4x6 led headlights. Sadly there is much crap on the market, it is easy to make a lousy dipped beam headlight unit, it is hard to make a good one. A high beam headlight is less difficult, that is basically a powerful flashlight. I think if I was in the marked for a us/dot headlight, I wouldn't pick the jw speaker, but rather the morimoto, I think it looks better and is cheaper.