Sheared crankshaft woodruff key

[Ian R.]

-Well my van motor may be toast. I was driving on the freeway when my van started making a funny noise. I pulled off the freeway and took a look at the engine. The harmonic puller was spinning out of wack. I took every thing off and saw that the key had sheared and mard the sot on the crank and bored a nice slot in the pulley.

it looks like this may have happed to the PO, before.- as the old crank bolt's threads are stripped and the threads in the crankshaft are shot as well.

I am gunna try to trace the crank shaft threads and reinstall a new pulley, woodruff key, and crank bolt. But I think the crank shaft may be toast.

Any one had this happen to them before? Any advice?


Thanks!

[timsrv]

That sucks! It probably happened due to the crankshaft bolt hole being stripped. Without that bolt being torqued, it puts all the load of the accessories on the keyway area. Considering the damage is already done, I'd get a good used crankshaft pulley (AKA Balancer), a new key, a new bolt (if necessary), and helicoil the threads. Due to the crank damage, I'd probably also put some JB Weld or similar between the pulley and the crankshaft when reassembling. Normally I would never use JB weld here, but considering the alternative (replacing crank), I would chance it. Be sure to get the full 116 ft lbs torque when putting the pulley bolt back in and let the JB weld cure completely before starting. Tim

PS: If it's any consolation, you're not the 1st person to experience this (at least 2 or 3 others have posted about this very issue). Here's a quote from another post:


...........If after that the timing mark is way off of TDC, then you'll need to pull the crankshaft pulley and make sure the woodruff key is there and intact. If the key is intact and the keyway looks good, then it means the outer part of the pulley has slipped on the rubber insulator (meaning you will need to replace the pulley). Keep in mind that it's not too unusual to have problems with the woodruff key on these. If it has broken (allowing the pulley to slip) and you run it for too long, the end result could be destruction of the crankshaft.............

[Ian R.]

Thanks Tim. I have ordered the crank bolt and woodruff key from Toyota yesterday. I purchased a POWERBOND harmonic balancer.

The woodruff key-way on the crank is damaged. One side of the lateral wall has the top 1/4 sheared off ( I think this is old damage because the sheared part of the key-way is not shinny). I am hoping the surface of the crankshaft is not toast. It does have some scoring. The balancer was spinning on the crank for about 5 minutes before I was able to park the van off the freeway.

The camshaft bolt that I pulled basically has no threads left and there is a fare amount of surface rust in the crankshaft. I going to chase/coil the crank. Not sure if I want to JB weld, yet.

***Anyone know the thread type of the crankshaft? I would like to see if I can track down a thread chaser before the other parts come in?

P.S. I will post pictures soon.


Thanks

[Ian R.]

Well I have decided to have the engine rebuilt. I have a 6 month road trip planned in June (well July now to make up for the cost of the rebuild). So in a way this is a blessing to have it happen now vs on the road. roflroflroflrofl, do it right the first time or do it twice.

I already have the van camper built out and could use some extra power and peace of mind while pulling the extra weight.

Those of you that would like to know the cost of a rebuild in the LA area check back here. I have been referred to a few mechanics and am waiting on quotes. The plan is to have a complete engine rebuild along with the injectors and a new clutch. Going to brake the bank.

[Ian R.]

Well it looks like the mechanics in my area do not want to rebuild the engine. They either want to replace with a re-manufactured engine (jasper, napa ect.), or a used engine. I like the second option, but that may take awhile...

[timsrv]

I would be a bit weary of remanufactured engines. We've talked about that before on the forum. Try searching using the term Jasper. Tim

[Ian R.]

I spoke too soon. A mechanic I was referred to finally gave me a call back. He gave me two options. The first was the quick fix with a reman engine. The second will take 3-4 weeks. Complete rebuild 1200.00 labor, 1500 parts and machining. I am asking him to use all Toyota Gaskets. Anything else Toyota I should use?

[timsrv]

Okay, so I searched the site real quick and don't see anything on jasper (sorry) there are however a few useful threads here. I'm out of time (gotta go) but here are a couple ones I found:

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2007-Where-to-find-a-replacement-engine-for-my-1985-TV

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?1192-Rebuild-or-Rering-engine

Also, read my blogs and check out my engine overhaul thread:

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2041-Blew-the-rear-main-oil-seal!-Engine-Overhaul

[Ian R.]

My thoughts exactly. Re-manufactured motors are bunk! I am going to have him rebuild. Time to start riding my bike to work again.:rol:

[Ian R.]

I am looking at this rebuild kit anyone have experience with these parts.

TO2237MK $402.29 plus $12.50 shipping for any kit over $400.00 to most places.

This kit includes:
ITM pistons, wrist pins and rings,

Clevite main bearings, thrust washers and rod bearings,

ITM cam bearings,

ITM complete gasket set,

Topline camshaft,

Sealed Power lifters,

Engine Pro timing set and

ITM oil pump.

Of course, we will need to know the size of the pistons and bearings. The pistons come in std. (or .020” or .030” or .040”over sizes) and the bearings come in std. (or .010” or .020” or .030” over sizes), all the same price.

[Ian R.]

I may have jumped the gun on the van prognosis.

The Powerbond OEM replacement harmonic balancer, toyota crank bolt and woodruff key came in yesterday. So swung by local Ace Hardware and picked up a M14 1.5 tap to chase the threads in the crankshaft snout.

This is what I did:

Soaked the threads in the snout with WD-40 and cleaned out as much corrosion as possible.

Squirted some motor oil into the snout.

Put some motor oil on the Toyota OEM Crank bolt and threaded it in buy hand till it stopped. I was able to get 5 or 6 threads in. Then backed out the bolt.

Put some more motor oil into the snout and threaded the tap by hand slowly as far as i could. Then I attached the T-handle onto the tap and slowly chased the threads to the same depth of the OEM crank bolt.

I then backed out the tap and to my surprise the only thing on the tap was corrosion. - Took a look at the crank snout threads and they were perfect. The crank must be made of a harder steel than the crankshaft bolt:)>:, and what I thought was destroyed threads in the crank snout was the corrosion left from the old crank bolt.

I was able to hand thread the new crank bolt into the crankshaft easily.

The Toyota OEM key sits straight and nicely in the key way, but there is some metal missing on the upper lateral edge of the key way wall.

*** After installing the harmonic balancer there is a very slight amount of play when I rotate it w/o the bolt on or tighten.

I put everything back together and torqued it down. The van fired right up.

Now this is where I am torn. Should I tear the motor apart to fix the crank or not. I know only I can answer that. But I am still interested your opinions.

[timsrv]

Assuming the engine is in otherwise good condition, I would run with it. It sucks when things like this happen, but there are other things you can do if it slips again. The JB weld idea was to lock the two together and minimize the chance of future slippage (a good puller would still remove if/when that were required). There are other "more permanent" hack type repairs you can do, but it sounds like your way will likely hold and you'll still be able to disassemble easily the next time that pulley needs to come off. Great job! Tim

[Ian R.]

Thanks Tim!


Once the balancer is torqued down to 116 ft/lbs most, if not all, of the rotational force is held by the friction between the bolts fixed washer/pulley and crank.

Crankshaft bolt thread type size M14 1.25 from toyota $28.00, woodruff key from toyota $4.00, Powerbond harmonic balancer autozone $140.00, Irwin M14 1.5 Tap $11.00. Total time under the hood 2 hours. Stress level was reaching critical mass! - But reads normal now:). Lurking fear will be ever present :no:.

[timsrv]

BTW, that rebuild kit sounds like the one I got for my van........except mine came with an Aisin oil pump. I went with the .020 oversized pistons but stuck with STD on the crank parts. FYI, barring damage to the keyway area (like yours), these cranks rarely need to be ground. I've checked several high mileage 4y cranks with precision micrometers only to find no detectable wear. In your case, if you end up rebuilding, I would definitely be looking for another crank. Tim

[Ian R.]

Thanks Tim! I will keep that kit on file if/when I rebuild. The Toyota OEM rings and crankshaft are NLA :(. I am gunna keep my eye out for vans at my local yards in the meantime. If one pops up I gunna pull the motor and have it rebuilt. since my crank is no good.

[Ian R.]

Took the van to the shop yesterday to have the engine rebuilt. I already miss the old fella. :cry::violn:

[zak99b5]

Why? What happened?? I thought you had the harmonic balancer all torqued down?

[Ian R.]

Well nothing happened. The crankshaft was damaged when the balancer spun. The van has been runing good. There is some noise in the front part of the engine. It is either the TC or a bearing. So I have debating for awhile if I should just rebuild the motor that has 190,xxx.

I decided that I should rebuild now out of precaution in order to avoid any engine problems that may happen during a 6 month road trip we have coming up.

Hopefully I get the van back with a clean bill of health. Hopefully I made the right decision.

[Ian R.]

Thanks for checking in! I appreciate that. Should get it back in two weeks:)

[ratatouille]

Ian,
Curious how your experience goes with your mechanic you were referred too with the rebuild. Not sure if he would want his info shared, but it's nice to know if there are solid local mechanics willing to work on these vans around here. Be sure to keep us posted. Goodluck

[Ian R.]

So I have been anxiously waiting for the van to be finished and mechanic called and said it will be done no later than next friday!:dance2: . He said he has been enjoying working on the little van so maybe he would be happy to work on others. . While I cant yet speak to the end result. He has been great to work with.

[ratatouille]

That's great. Thanks Ian! I'm not too far off from there. I think I may pop in there this coming week. My lack of knowledge has me on fence deciding on how much work I want to attempt to do myself and when to throw in towel and let a professional do certain work. Learning as you go for an inexperienced like me can be expensive, time consuming and frustrating BUT so rewarding knowing I've done all the work myself so far on my van. Sometime this year I'm considering some major maintenance... When you've got some time, I'm wondering what exactly telling shop to do an "engine rebuild" includes?

[Ian R.]

Ratatouille,

My wife and I sat down and discussed our options. We love our van and have had it during memorable and even monumental events. It will be our home very shortly as well.

I think I can safely say that most people on this forum share a similar connection to theirs vans. The reason I saying these things because the bottom line is a rebuild costs a significant amount of money.

Not every engine is going to require the same amount of work . The work I am having done is very similar to Tim's in depth blog on rebuilding a van motor. There a couple of differences however. I needed a new crankshaft and asked to have it rebuilt with Toyota parts.

When I dropped of the van I asked the mechanic to rebuild the engine. This requires taking the engine out, completely disassembling it, having the head machined and the engine block honed or machined (the head and black are usually sent to a machine shop buy the mechanic because it requires special machining tools) . I had to ask friends and call round to find a mechanic that would spend the time to do this. -Most will just want to drop in a remanufactured motor in to save time and hassle. These motors have a reputation of crapping out and are nearly impossible to be replaced under the supposed warranties.

All in all the complete rebuild, along with a new crank, full injectors, clutch/flywheel, miscellaneous parts, and labor it comes out to 3500.00. I bought the 4x4 5 spd for 3600.

My wife and I decided to move forward with the build because we have no intention of selling our little van Hansel.

[Ian R.]

I officially am having separation anxiety. I miss my van. It was suppose to be done last week, but the mechanic said he has to put in some overtime to have it done on Wednesday. He said there was still a lot of steps to be done. Don't want to rush him, but this past 5 weeks has gone by very slow.:dizzy:

[Ian R.]

It is alive and back on the road!

[timsrv]

:thmbup: How about some pics of your engine compartment? I could use a dose of shiny 4y engine porn. :yes:

[Ian R.]

Will do. My engine bay is not the prettiest. It is a dusty mother. haha! I'll shine it up before snapping some pictures, so every one will get the full affect.

Before I had the engine rebuilt I recored the rad replaced the t-stat, and water pump. I thought it ran cool then. Now that the motor is rebuilt it runs even cooler. I sat in traffic on a 90' day driving home from the mechanic and it stayed at 1/4 of the temp gauge:yes:.

Can't comment on the power yet. The mechanic did the initial break-in, but i will be taking it easy for the next 1000 miles.

Ill be on my way to Alaska from LA in a few weeks so it be nice to have a little extra power.

[timsrv]

Other than changing the oil after the 1st 100 miles, I never worried about "breaking in" an engine. I've always driven them hard from day one. Nobody has ever been able to explain to me (in a way that makes sense) what benefit there is to babying a new engine. I've always had good results with my abusive break-ins :rol:. Gotta let the engine know right from the beginning who's the boss. :wnk:

[moverbaugh]

Other than changing the oil after the 1st 100 miles, I never worried about "breaking in" an engine. I've always driven them hard from day one. Nobody has ever been able to explain to me (in a way that makes sense) what benefit there is to babying a new engine. I've always had good results with my abusive break-ins :rol:. Gotta let the engine know right from the beginning who's the boss. :wnk:

From what I've read elsewhere, modern engines don't have any need for 'break-in', since they're designed properly from the start. I was never terribly gentle with the 2.0 in my old Mazda3, and it was still going fine 125k later when I sold it.

[Ian R.]

Good to know!:thmbup: I am always overly cautious with things that I spend a lot of $$$ on :roflmao:. The mechanic gave me a 3 year warranty for the engine and labor and stressed that I 'take it easy for the first 500 miles'. So, i will take it easy for now. -Then ill take it to the limit! J/K. I am always easy on the van!

[timsrv]

Lol, when towing my trailer (depending on load) I go long stretches with WOT (Wide Open Throttle)........for miles at a time. Speed limit is 70 mph and we regularly work 20+ miles from home. North on I-5 from Portland is mostly uphill I will often plant my right foot firmly on the floor and keep it there. There are a few short down-hill slopes where I let off, but for the most part it's WOT. On the hot days (like the day before yesterday) my AC is blasting too. The van is able to maintain between 65 - 75 depending on the load & grade. Needless to say, I get some pretty crappy mpg in those situations. :LOL2:. Van puts up with it wonderfully. Of course I keep everything in tip-top condition. Engine has ~200k on it with new rings and bearings ~30k miles ago. Tim

[Ian R.]

Awesome! We are leaving July 6th from Ventura, CA and plan on being in Alaska early September. We are prolly going to driving 100 mile segments. -So we will be stopping frequently up the coast (gunna try and hit as many surfable waves up in the PNW).

Van Update: 500 miles w/o a problem so far! I pulled a steep grade on the 101 between Cabrillo and Thousand Oaks. Normally I have to drop it into 3rd. Today, I cruised the whole thing in 4th going 50mph and did not even have the gas on the floor:drive:! I am averaging 22 mpg too!

[Ian R.]

I no longer can recommend this shop (Horacio's Auto). I was charged for injectors that were never replaced. The mechanic gave me the money back for the cost of the injectors. I said if I found anything else I would call the authorities.

[Carbonized]

That's a shame! How did you find out about the injectors?

[ratatouille]

Ratatouille,

My wife and I sat down and discussed our options......

Ian,
Thanks for the input. I was just about to drop into the shop when I saw you may have had some issues with them. Hope you guys are cruising well on the trip.

[James Zueger]

I just tore down the motor out of my 86 van for a partial rebuild and found the woodruff key sheared, the pulley trashed inside, the crankshaft scarred, and the keyway badly damaged. Am waiting to hear what my mechanic says but it sounds like I'll be buying some JB Weld. I would appreciate an opinion. This motor only has about 92 K miles. I have another motor with about 180 K miles. Should I : 1.do the JB Weld? 2. replace the crank with the one with 180 K? 3. replace the block with the one with 180K? or 4. just do a partial rebuild on the 180K instead? Both motors have very bad compression on one cylinder.

[James Zueger]

Another question on the crankshaft keyway : could another keyway be cut opposite side of the old one? and could I possibly do that myself with a Dremmel type tool? JB Weld then to fill the scarring.

[timsrv]

There's always something you can do, but it's up to you to consider the risk and consequential problems later on. You could drill a hole from the front between the pulley and the crank, then thread it and install a machine screw. I've even seen people weld the pulley to the crank (from the inside of the pulley to the end of the crank), but to me that's really limiting your options for future repairs and potentially creating a bigger PITA later down the road. Tim

[James Zueger]

Thanks Tim. I will post on how it turns out.

[Ian R.]

The thread ain't dead!

If the motor is out and you already were planning a partial rebuilt, I would replace the crank. It will be one less thing to think about because it will have been done right. At least that was my rational. 30,000 miles later my van is running strong with great gas milage and minimal oil loss.


Carbonized, I noticed that the injectors were still ticking. I looked at the plastic part of the injector and it looked like the old ones. I brought it back to the shop and showed the mechanic. He gave an excuse and my money back.

[boogieman]

lets see a pic of the bunged up crank...
.

[James Zueger]

I took it into the shop already but basically there's a chunk missing alongside the keyway and scarring (minor grooves going around the shaft). Replacing the crank would be fine as I already have one. The issue is: Is there any problem with using a crank with an extra 100K miles on it?

[timsrv]

Is there any problem with using a crank with an extra 100K miles on it?

Usually not. Assuming there's no obvious physical damage (like a buggered key way), I've reused these with tons of miles on them. The crank I put in my last complete rebuild (featured in my blogs (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/blog.php?2-timsrv)) had ~ 250k miles on it. I checked all the journals with micrometers and had it magnafluxed for cracks.........all was fine (no reason to believe it wouldn't go another 250k). Tim

[James Zueger]

Thanks Tim. I'll go ahead and pull that other crank and take it in to the shop. They're on vacation and won't even be looking at it till next week.

[Ian R.]

James, that sounds exactly like what happened to my crank. Let us know how the rebuild goes! Also, make sure to use a OEM head gasket on the rebuild if you were not planning to already.

[James Zueger]

I got my head and block back from the shop and have most of the motor put back together. The guy at the shop gave me a bulletin concerning the crankshaft bolt. There is no date on the bulletin but it says Toyota came out with a new crankshaft pulley bolt. It has a head marking of 10 instead of the old 8, allowing for a higher torque of 167 ft. lbs. up from the previous 116 ft. lbs. The shop guy said he'd just up the torque on the old bolt to around 130. I'm concerned about stripping the threads. Am going to see if I can just get a grade 10 bolt of correct size and heavy washer from a fastener store. Any thoughts out there on this?

[timsrv]

I wasn't aware of a bulletin and/or a problem here. I know these keyways/cranks can get messed up, but I always assumed it was due to people running them without the correct torque. I too would be concerned with excessive torque here as the crank bolt is fine thread. Even if the bolt can take it I'd worry about the threads inside the crank stripping out. If I had a crank with stripped threads, I would not hesitate to repair with a Helicoil (assuming the key way area was undamaged). I would not however exceed the factory specified torque setting. Just my 2¢. Tim

[originalkwyjibo]

Any chance you could post the bulletin?

[James Zueger]

This is my 3rd time trying to post this.
It is put out by AERA Engine Builders Assoc. TB #2496
Two designs have different torque values. Torque spec. has been increased from 116 to 167 ft. lbs. Strength of bolt was changed. New bolt has changed mark on bolt head from 8 to 10. Change effective with engine ser. no. 4Y-0236296.
prev. part no. 90105-14013 new part no. 90105-14069 part name bolt, washer based head hexagon
I cropped the bulletin in typing it out. Jim Z

[James Zueger]

I noticed that on my replacement crankshaft and pulley the harmonic balancer does not have an internal stop shoulder as it did on the original one. That means the pulley and balancer will be tightening hard against the gear. Is this any problem? If not why do you suppose they made some with the stop shoulders? I don't know what year the replacement is. Is there a chart somewhere of motor serial numbers to year makes - been searching online and can't find? Jim Z

[timsrv]

It's possible I'm wrong, but I don't believe there is (or has ever been) a stop shoulder inside the balancer. I believe it is supposed to pull up tight against the timing gear (keeps everything nice and tight).

Regarding that Tech Bulletin, I couldn't find it anywhere on-line. I know they're calling out a Toyota part, but I'm not aware of that company or their authority over Toyotas (unless they're just repeating what Toyota put out). It might just be that I'm old school and out of the loop :dizzy:. If that's the case, somebody please rattle my cage and tell me if this is the way we get service bulletins. Is there a library somewhere these things are all listed at? It would be nice if we could type in a VIN and get a list of all bulletins affecting any particular unit. Tim

[James Zueger]

Tim There was a stop shoulder on the crank that got chewed up ( an 86 van). I'll contact the machinist that gave me the bulletin to see where the info originated. I just assumed it came from Toyota and this company puts out info. Regarding the higher strength bolt, I got a 10.9 grade bolt from the bolt store and I can torque it to 151 which is way better than 116. Will get back to you on this AERA.

[James Zueger]

Tim I found AERA they're at www.aera.org Maybe this could be of a help to us Toyota van owners (not much to me as I'm not a mechanic - just a guy that likes Toyota vans and is trying to save a lot of bucks if I can). Jim Z

[timsrv]

Yeah, I was there earlier (before I made that last post) and I searched their site using the TB 2496 number. Nothing would come up except recalls on recent vehicles and it only went back to 2015. I also searched the internet for "recalls and service bulletins by VIN" and found a few sites that did that, but none would pull up or display any Service Bulletins on the van (and I'm aware of at least 3 or 4). 2 or 3 of the sites mentioned the steering bevel gear recall, but that's it. Tim

[James Zueger]

Tim I just talked to the machinist. He said they are a member of this organization and are provided with software programs that he printed this from. Asked if there was a corresponding Toyota service bulletin, he said he couldn't answer. I would think there would have to be unless they are making their own changes. Jim Z

[James Zueger]

Tim I should add that the bulletin also stated: Although either design may be used, it is considered a product improvement if the newer grade 10 bolt design is used. Jim Z

[MagicMan]

Any idea of what size socket to use on the crankshaft bolt?

[MagicMan]

3/4`` seemed to do the job