G53 [2WD manual] Transmission replacement

[Rufus]

Well I have been pretty busy and this isn't the best writeup and I didn't get pictures all the way through, however my writeups will get better in the future.
My manual transmission went out on my 1986 2WD van at 228,000 miles. It had towed an unknown amount in its first 170,000 miles and I towed a trailer several times often times over great distances. The transmission was very loud in every gear except for fourth gear. From my reading on TVT it sounds like it was a bad input shaft bearing. Pair that with a bad output shaft seal, high miles, and trailer towing, and you have a recipe for failure.
I brought the van into the shop. This picture was very foretelling of my future without even realizing it at the time...

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Rufus%20on%20the%20lift.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Rufus%20on%20the%20lift.jpg.html)

I wouldn't attempt this job without having the factory service manual. Having done this once, I would feel comfortable doing most of the job without the manual. HOWEVER, I feel that there are several fasteners that require the use of a torque wrench for this job and I would want to be able to refer to the manual for the proper torque. You don't want a flywheel attachment bolt backing out while you are driving down the freeway.

Also, make sure the battery ground wire is disconnected so that you don't damage the electrical system during the work to be performed.

Step one is going to be draining the transmission. Remove the drain plug, check for shavings, and set the plug aside.

Step two is to disconnect the driveline. There will be four bolts at the front of the rear differential. Take them out and slip the splined adapter out of the rear of the transmission.

Step three is to disconnect the speedometer cable, the ground wire, and the back-up light wire plug. They are located on the aft right side of the transmission.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/8dbe6d40-03f3-40ce-92ab-1c643762551d.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/8dbe6d40-03f3-40ce-92ab-1c643762551d.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/0ee4e5b5-ef6c-4bec-9ef2-d7f2e62101f1.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/0ee4e5b5-ef6c-4bec-9ef2-d7f2e62101f1.jpg.html)

Step four is to disconnect the clutch slave cylinder from the transmission. There is no need to disconnect the cylinder from the brake line as that would only introduce air into the hydraulic clutch system and create unnecessary work later. There is plenty of room to work with it just moved out of the way after unbolting.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Clutch%20slave%20cylinder%20reattached%20to%20the% 20transmission%20after%20install.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Clutch%20slave%20cylinder%20reattached%20to%20the% 20transmission%20after%20install.jpg.html)

Step five is to disconnect and remove the starter. Easy.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/OEM%20starter%20cleaned%20and%20degreased%20prior% 20to%20reinstallation.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/OEM%20starter%20cleaned%20and%20degreased%20prior% 20to%20reinstallation.jpg.html)

While you have the starter out, now is a good time to remove the years of accumulated grease and grime from the starter. Don't put your parts back into the vehicle covered in grease.

Step six is to disconnect the shift linkage cables from the shift arms of the transmission.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/shift%20linkage%20reattachment4.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/shift%20linkage%20reattachment4.jpg.html)

This requires two open end wrenches! It will be tempting to break the nut loose with one wrench but it won't work. One wrench goes above the boot and into the flat spots on the shank of the bolt, the other one loosens the nut. Like this:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/shift%20linkage%20reattachment5.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/shift%20linkage%20reattachment5.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/shift%20linkage%20reattachment3.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/shift%20linkage%20reattachment3.jpg.html)

There are two piece grommets in the eyes of the shift arms that the bolts go through. You can see them pictured above. Be careful to not lose these! They will most likely not fall out or go anywhere but keep an eye on them. If you lose them you will have too much play in your shift linkage and it will not likely shift at all.

As I recall, when you unbolt the starter, by default you also unbolt the shifter linkage mounting bracket. I love Toyota Engineering. Now that the linkage is completely detached from the transmission, you can set it aside.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Shift%20linkage%20attachment%20to%20the%20transmis sion.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Shift%20linkage%20attachment%20to%20the%20transmis sion.jpg.html)

Step 7 is to remove the exhaust bracket. Mine was missing the outer clamp and bolt and I didn't realize that until I took the bracket that attaches to the transmission off. No matter, one less step.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Exhaust%20bracket%20media%20blasted%20and%20painte d%20prior%20to%20reinstallation.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Exhaust%20bracket%20media%20blasted%20and%20painte d%20prior%20to%20reinstallation.jpg.html)

Step 8 is to remove the engine stiffeners. There is one on the left and one on the right. Initially, I just unbolted them from the transmission and left them attached to the engine but ended up removing them in the end so that I could clean them up and paint them before reinstallation of the transmission.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/6dd6a343-aee7-4e8f-8473-a07e542f28fb.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/6dd6a343-aee7-4e8f-8473-a07e542f28fb.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/ca24278a-ca5b-43b4-9ada-4a6925056863.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/ca24278a-ca5b-43b4-9ada-4a6925056863.jpg.html)

Step 9 is to place a stand or jack under the transmission in preparation for removal.

Step 10 is to disconnect the rear transmission mount from the van or from the transmission. If you want to disconnect it from the van, you unbolt it from the left side and the right side where they attach to the frame.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/New%20transmission%20elastomers%20installed%20prio r%20to%20trans%20install.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/New%20transmission%20elastomers%20installed%20prio r%20to%20trans%20install.jpg.html)

If you want to disconnect it from the transmission, the bolts are located above the plate and they thread directly into the transmission case.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Transmission%20mounted%20to%20the%20transmission%2 0mount.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Transmission%20mounted%20to%20the%20transmission%2 0mount.jpg.html)

Step 11 is to undo the remaining bolts attaching the transmission to the engine. After unbolting it, you will have to slide it rearward while dropping it down slightly to free the input shaft splines from the clutch friction plate splines. Mine was rather difficult. Partially because I had no help and partially because the splines were dry and cruddy.

Set the transmission on a bench and keep going. There is more to do. The transmission will look something like this when it comes out.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/right%20side%20of%20G53%20transmission%20that%20wa s%20removed%20at%20229000%20miles.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/right%20side%20of%20G53%20transmission%20that%20wa s%20removed%20at%20229000%20miles.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/20160123_125812.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/20160123_125812.jpg.html)

You will now have access to the clutch. Step 12 is to remove the bolts around the periphery and take the clutch assembly off. Your clutch will look old and dirty and not new like this one.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/New%20clutch%20at%20229k%20miles.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/New%20clutch%20at%20229k%20miles.jpg.html)

Step 13 will be to remove the bolts from the flywheel and then remove the flywheel assembly from the crankshaft flange. Remember that when these go back in to use proper torque and locktite! If I remember correctly, these are torqued to 61 ft/lb, so they don't come out easy! (Your flywheel will look like a used brake rotor, not new and shiny like this one.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Installing%20the%20flywheel%20bolts%20with%20lockt ite.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Installing%20the%20flywheel%20bolts%20with%20lockt ite.jpg.html)

You will now be here. The rear of your engine will look kind of like this except dirtier. You are looking at the backing plate covering he open areas of the bell housing. Step 14 is to remove the two bolts holding this to the engine and slide it off.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Backing%20plate%20reinstalled%20with%20locktite%20 before%20flywheel%20installation.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Backing%20plate%20reinstalled%20with%20locktite%20 before%20flywheel%20installation.jpg.html)

Now is the time to replace your rear main seal. I think it costs about $14 for the seal and gasket and it is an easy job. I removed the seal housing, media blasted it with plastic media, cleaned up the crankshaft seal mating surface, installed the new seal, and used a small bead of High temp RTV sealant where the bottom of the seal housing mates with the oil pan. My old one wasn't leaking but you do it now anyway because you are here.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Rear%20main%20seal%20installed%20at%20229k%20miles .jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Rear%20main%20seal%20installed%20at%20229k%20miles .jpg.html)

After that you can remove the old pilot bearing and install a new one. It is tiny and hard to find a pilot bearing removal tool that fits. I ended up punching the inner race and bearings out and then using the pulling tool on the outer race. The new one presses in easy enough.

After that is done, you should replace the hoses of death. They are pretty much impossible to get to without either pulling the engine or transmission. Mine were in pretty good shape but they are dirt cheap and you are there. The first one is at the 10:00 position above your head if under the vehicle and facing forward. The second one is at the 12:00 position. You may need to loosen a couple of bolts to get to the first one.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Left%20side%20hose%20of%20death%20replaced%20at%20 229k%20miles.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Left%20side%20hose%20of%20death%20replaced%20at%20 229k%20miles.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Upper%20hose%20of%20death%20replaced%20at%20229k%2 0miles.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Upper%20hose%20of%20death%20replaced%20at%20229k%2 0miles.jpg.html)

Now that the hoses, rear main seal, and pilot bearing are replaced, you should also replace the transmission mount elastomers as they are cheap and the job is simple.

Have your flywheel resurfaced before you install the new clutch. I paid $35 to have a local shop do it. Sometimes you can even get it back the same day.

Replace the gear oil in your rear differential when you do this job. It takes the same oil as the transmission and you are already under the van, so why not. Remember to get new gaskets for the drain and filler plugs! I like the OEM crush type that Toyota sells because they don't leak if installed properly! The flat side of the crush washer goes against the bolt head, and the crush side with the split in it goes against the housing.

Replace your clutch when you do this job! A clutch kit isn't very expensive and you have to drop the transmission to get to it, so why not?

I installed a used transmission into the van, so before installation I put a new input seal and new output seal into the transmission. I also ran a bunch of gear oil through it before closing the drain and filling it.

When you have the input shaft bearing retainer off you can clean out the areas around the bearing and make sure that there are no particles getting into the bearings. Remember to install a new gasket!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Detail%20of%20clutch%20parts%20on%20transmission.j pg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Detail%20of%20clutch%20parts%20on%20transmission.j pg.html)

When you remove your throwout bearing and put a new bearing on the clutch release hub, be sure to grease the surfaces called out in the manual. Also grease the input shaft splines, the clutch splines (lightly), the ball that the release arm pivots on, and the release arm friction surfaces. This will make your clutch feel like butter.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Throwout%20bearing%20flange%20media%20blasted%20pa inted%20and%20greased%20.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Throwout%20bearing%20flange%20media%20blasted%20pa inted%20and%20greased%20.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/New%20throwout%20bearing%20greased%20before%20inst all.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/New%20throwout%20bearing%20greased%20before%20inst all.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Shift%20release%20arm%20prior%20to%20install.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Shift%20release%20arm%20prior%20to%20install.jpg.h tml)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Shift%20release%20arm%20media%20blasted%20painted% 20and%20greased%20before%20install.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Shift%20release%20arm%20media%20blasted%20painted% 20and%20greased%20before%20install.jpg.html)

Next you will put the clutch release arm back into the transmission, install the the throwout bearing and the retaining pins.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Clutch%20parts%20installed%20in%20transmission%20a s%20well%20as%20new%20input%20seal%20and%20gasket% 20for%20input%20bearing%20retention%20plate.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Clutch%20parts%20installed%20in%20transmission%20a s%20well%20as%20new%20input%20seal%20and%20gasket% 20for%20input%20bearing%20retention%20plate.jpg.ht ml)

Install the backing plate using the two bolts and being sure to get the plate located properly on the alignment dowels and using a torque wrench and loctite.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Backing%20plate%20reinstalled%20with%20locktite%20 before%20flywheel%20installation.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Backing%20plate%20reinstalled%20with%20locktite%20 before%20flywheel%20installation.jpg.html)

Next install the flywheel using loctite and a torque wrench on the bolts.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Installing%20the%20flywheel%20bolts%20with%20lockt ite.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Installing%20the%20flywheel%20bolts%20with%20lockt ite.jpg.html)

Now you can put the clutch flex plate and friction disc onto the flywheel using the provided alignment tool and the new bolts supplied with the clutch kit. FOLLOW THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/New%20clutch%20installation%20at%20229k%20miles%20 with%20alignment%20tool.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/New%20clutch%20installation%20at%20229k%20miles%20 with%20alignment%20tool.jpg.html)

After the clutch is installed you can bolt the transmission mount back onto the transmission in preparation for installation into the van.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x203/sayZar1999/Transmission%20mounted%20to%20the%20transmission%2 0mount.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/sayZar1999/media/Transmission%20mounted%20to%20the%20transmission%2 0mount.jpg.html)

Next, position the transmission under the van and hoist it into place and slide it forward to mate the splines of the input shaft into the splines of the clutch friction disc and finally into the pilot bearing bore.

Once the transmission is in place, install the bolts of the transmission mount into the van, and install the top bolts into the engine/transmission attach points.

After this it is pretty much just the reverse order from removal.

Don't forget to fill the transmission with oil!

Reattach all your connections and verify that everything works.

Since this was a different transmission from what I originally had installed, I verified the rigging of the shifter. The procedure is called out in the manual and you need to remove the cover for the shifter assembly but it is easy and mine was already in rig when I checked so no adjustment was necessary. I would definitely do this every time.

The only issue I had post-swap was that my speedometer didn't work This was due to the cable shifting in the housing down out of the instrument cluster. I had to remove the instrument cluster and use a pair of needle nose pliers to gently slide the cable back up and into position where it would engage the speedometer gauge.

Hope this helps, and let me know if I can clarify anything.

[timsrv]

Awesome write-up! Thank you for this (and other) contributions to our forum! :thmbup: Tim

[Rufus]

Thanks for the compliment! I will be posting more writeups and they will get better. There are some excellent writeups on this forum. It is a very valuable resource for van owners.

[lucasschwartz]

This may be a good place to ask-

Any idea if it's possible to replace the output shaft bearing with the transmission installed?

[hughdawgmmkay]

Rufus -

I am about to put my rear main seal back on, and read that you used RTV around the bottom edge of your RMS housing. I couldn't find this in the manual and wasn't sure exactly where to place the RTV.

Is this necessary, or can I use just the paper gasket that comes with the RMS housing?

Thanks!
Hugh

[timsrv]

Here's a blog entry where this is demonstrated: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/entry.php?53-4yec-Engine-Rebuild-part-12

I would recommend wiping a very thin layer of the FIPG (http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~fipg~oil~pan~00295-00103.html) around the outside periphery of the seal before pressing it into the housing. I started doing that after I had a rear main blow-out (results of that shown on this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2041-Blew-the-rear-main-oil-seal!-Engine-Overhaul ). Tim

PS: I'd highly recommend using Toyota FIPG (shown in those write-ups) rather than RTV.

[hughdawgmmkay]

Awesome stuff! Thank you Tim! I should be doing the new rear main seal & oil pan in the next few weekends...really looking forward to getting this thing up and running!

[Vandude]

What would be the cost of doing all that if you took it to a shop? I think my van has the same issue and it's at 215,000 miles and started to hear a loud knocking noise when I have the clutch engaged into any gear.

[ratatouille]

I've got a used G53 trans being delivered this week (Thank you to Ian here on the forum for the lead. The transfer from the donor went to his van..I guess we're kind of related now right? ). It's going into my 88 4wd manual. Yes I understand this thread is for the 86 2wd...Correct me if I'm wrong but it's pretty much the same process with exception of the transfer case? I will FINALLY be getting around to swap it with my failing current. Can't wait to have 1st gear back and a quiet trans! About a year ago I removed trans to replace clutch, throw out bearing, rear main seal, input seal, output seal, had flywheel resurfaced etc. Shortly there after the trans continued to go. Most likely input shaft bearing and syncros bad.

My question is this - would you all think I better replace all this again including a new clutch and clutch kit when the donor trans goes in? Or if no noticeable leaks when I open it up, could I get away with these fairly new seals and bearings? I just want to make sure to get parts I need and have them on hand ready for the swap. I'm slightly concerned driving the failing trans around all this time the past year may have put stress on these components and I aught to start with a clean slate? But I sure would love to save a few bucks if I can.

Thanks all for any input and I'm stoked for this forum that has helped my van continue to run all these years. Here's the rig -
5058

[timsrv]

Unless leaking, I wouldn't consider replacing any of those parts again for at least another 4 or 5 years. :)

[ratatouille]

Thanks tim. I dropped it by a trans shop to open it up to inspect wear and tear and make sure there wasn't anything catastrophic about it before the swap. Turns out the tip of input shaft if effed up and it wont be exactly centered, but im told by the shop it'll still function and get me down the road better than the one currently in the van. also there's a seal or two that are poo. Syncros and bearings are fine though and no indication it's ever ran dry. So that's good .I'm trying to save as I'm on a tight budget and actually the trans shop is inspecting for me for a trade of services. Right now I'm only out the cost of the trans its self + shipping from the dismantle place. Now I'm on fence whether I ask him to close it back up, or pay him to do the seals while it's still open as it would set me back another 100 or so for him to replace. hmm..

[Canoed_son]

Unless leaking, I wouldn't consider replacing any of those parts again for at least another 4 or 5 years. :)

Hey tim,

About to replace the clutch on my van and thinking about doing a full tranny swap as well. My 85 2wd van had about 281k on it and the current tranny (5sp manual) is starting to make some noise. I have a friend of a friend who has a 5 sp from his old 89 van willing to donate...would this be compatible? If not what would work? Just trying to figure out what years vans had the same tranny.

[timsrv]

I believe the newer manual transmissions (86 - 89) are a bit better than the earlier ones (84 - 85). For the most part they are interchangeable, but the overall length of the transmission is a bit different (don't remember now which is longer/shorter). If you swap one year range for another you will need to swap the drive-shaft too. Everything else should swap over fine. Tim

[ratatouille]

...... thinking about doing a full tranny swap as well......current tranny (5sp manual) is starting to make some noise.


Canoed-
If there's doubt about the current trans, and you have a compatible swap in that will be donated...just going off my own recent experiences, I'd do the trans while it's all open and out. I didn't think my trans had issue when I went in after the clutch and a leaking rear main seal. After clutch, seal & bearing work..my trans went out very soon there after.

[Canoed_son]

Yeah I figured I'd just kill two birds with one stone while i have the thing out anyway. Its starting to make some whining/rattling noises and with summer coming up, i want to play it safe.


Canoed-
If there's doubt about the current trans, and you have a compatible swap in that will be donated...just going off my own recent experiences, I'd do the trans while it's all open and out. I didn't think my trans had issue when I went in after the clutch and a leaking rear main seal. After clutch, seal & bearing work..my trans went out very soon there after.

[Canoed_son]

Awesome, Tim! Thank you for the info. In terms of cost, whats a good ballpark price for used trans of this era? What would they charge at a junk yard/pick n pull?



I believe the newer manual transmissions (86 - 89) are a bit better than the earlier ones (84 - 85). For the most part they are interchangeable, but the overall length of the transmission is a bit different (don't remember now which is longer/shorter). If you swap one year range for another you will need to swap the drive-shaft too. Everything else should swap over fine. Tim

[timsrv]

I don't know. Seems like every place is different. If you can find one at one of the pick-n-pulls, the price is $130.00. Sometimes they have 50% off sales, so if you can wait, some people will go pull the transmission, then hide it somewhere until a sale, then go back and get it. If you do that, it's a good idea to go to their website and find out the date the vehicle you're hiding it in arrived (newer arrivals have less chance of being crushed before you can come back). Keep in mind they'll hit you for a $30 core charge and sometimes an "environmental fee". You can avoid paying the core if you bring in another transmission (doesn't necessarily need to be the same kind). Sometimes you can haggle them down. I used to be able to successfully do that on bigger parts.......but not so much anymore. Depends on who is at the counter and how many other ears are around. Key statements are "I have cash and don't need a receipt" and "I don't plan on bringing it back even if it has a problem" Good luck. Tim

[Canoed_son]

Super helpful stuff here, Tim! Thanks much...I will have to keep this in mind next time I head down to the pick n pull!

[pinkgrips236]

A question about re-installing the RMS carrier;

I picked up a new paper gasket that goes between the rear of the engine and the RMS carrier. I also used some FIPG on the bottom of the carrier where is meets the oil pan. Is any additional FIPG or RTV needed between or around the paper gasket? Or will just the gasket be enough?

[timsrv]

No, just the paper gasket is good between the block and the carrier. Here's a link to my blog where I'm doing it:

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/entry.php?53-4yec-Engine-Rebuild-part-12

[pinkgrips236]

Excellent. Thanks for the confirmation!

[bushcat]

I had my clutch replaced and now about 5-6 months later, I'm hearing a knocking from the transmission in all gears but 4th. I brought it to a local transmission shop and they diagnosed it as a bad transmission and it needed to either be rebuilt or replaced with a used one and quoted me at 2500 for the job. 500 for labor, I guess 2k for the rebuilding. They also found metal pieces in the pan. I hate to give up on this van after one year. I've already replaced a lot of parts included the water pump, fan clutch and clutch. If I can do this for under 1500, I would consider keeping it and pushing forward.

Anyways, if it is indeed the transmission, I have the following questions.

Vehicle: 1985 2WD Manual Transmission, Located in the SF Bay Area 195k miles
1. Can I just replace the transmission or do I need to remove the clutch and do that again as well? I read earlier that OP did but then Tim said it may not be necessary to mess with it.
2. Are there any other parts I should be replacing if I'm putting in a "new" used transmission?
3. I don't feel comfortable pulling a transmission from a yard nor installing a new transmission. Best way or place to locate a pulled manual transmission? I know that pick and pull has some pullers listed that can pull parts for you, has anybody tried that? I also see lowmileageparts.com, has anyone tried them?
3. What's a reasonable cost for installing the used transmission?


Thanks!

[pinkgrips236]

I'm almost wrapping up an auto to manual swap on my 4wd, and removing the trans was basically the easiest part. I would not hesitate to move/remove in the future, so don't feel too intimidated by it.

So far changing the brake booster and pedal set has been the most challenging piece of actual work. It was like one of those brain puzzles where all the bendy pieces of metal are locked around each other.

[Burntboot]

BC - have no fear, there is nothing overly complicated about re&re'ing a manual trans.
Take lots of pictures, mark everything and at the end of the day say to yourself, "I can't believe I almost paid $500 to have that done"
It is all just grunt work, nothing complicated at all.
If you're happy with how the clutch works and feels and its been recently replaced, there is little need to disturb.

Internal tranny parts are expensive, as is the labour to overhaul.
Finding a good used unit WILL be your most cost effective repair.
Generally speaking the trannies are pretty solid and if kept full of oil, rarely need attention.

[timsrv]

Good advice by previous posters. The hard part will likely be finding a good used transmission. They are out there, but can sometimes be hard to find. Unfortunately there's not really any way to know condition without installing or disassembling. I always took a chance on salvage yard transmissions and was always quite lucky. Only once did I get a defective one, but it was only a bad input shaft bearing. I was still able to use it for a couple of months before pulling it back out to replace that bearing. I used that transmission for years after with no further issues.

FYI, your clutch and related parts are separate from the transmission. If the clutch is fairly new and is not giving you any issues, then leave it be. Just unbolt the transmission and bolt on the replacement. It's not a bad idea to replace the input and output shaft seals (because it's easy), but if they look okay, then I might skip that. Definitely drain and replace the gear oil.

Regarding what the shop told you, I believe them. It sounds like you broke a tooth of one of your gears. 4th gear is direct drive, so it makes sense it would be quiet in 4th. If there were metal chunks in the oil, then it's likely to quickly get worse.

PS: If I swapped a transmission for somebody else, I would want $500.......but I would not pay anybody to do mine. Like other posters have said, it's pretty straight forward, but you'll need some basic tools and you'll likely get dirty. Having a long extension with a swivel socket is very helpful for the top bell-housing bolts. You'll also want to have the van on jack stands, so a floor jack is mandatory. The floor jack will also come in hand for supporting and lowering/lifting transmissions during the swap. Tim

[bushcat]

Thank you for the thorough replies. I guess a concern I have if replacing the transmission myself is that I won't know how to tell if a part is bad and what part it actually is. I guess I'm willing to try, the responses make it sound like it's bolt off, bolt on.

Dumb question but how do I know I have the entire transmission and it's associated parts when pulling it off?

Now I read earlier in the post that 84-85 have the same transmissions but that 86 is when I'll need to replace the driveshaft to because of the length of the transmission. I'd like to avoid that so I'll keep my eyes on a used 84-85. If I get desperate, is the driveshaft a hard swap?

Has anyone paid to get their transmission rebuilt?

Is this the output shaft seal? NATIONAL 223840?

[Burntboot]

Might be worth checking with the companies that import JDM engines, never know what you might find if you poke around a little.

[Burntboot]

As for doing a rebuild, btdt.

No gear or synchro damage, just all the "main" shaft bearings were replaced.
Shop came highly recommended and no penny was spared, though far too many dollars were slain.
I wouldn't go that route again, too many issues for the outlay.

It's nice and quiet and works just fine, but will occasionally pop out of 2nd on hard decel,
Fix doesn't sound too hard, but the trans has to come out to correct it.

[timsrv]

Is this the output shaft seal? NATIONAL 223840?


Yes, that's the one. In my previous post (amended) I meant to say input and output shaft seals. The input shaft seal would be NATIONAL 1981. If you only change 1 seal, I would make it the input shaft seal because that one requires transmission removal (so do it when it's out). The output shaft seal would only require the driveshaft be removed (could be done after transmission installation).

FYI, I typically don't worry as much about manual transmission seals. It's because gear oil is thick and it's only distributed by splashing (no pressure pump). Because of that these seals only see low stress, so unless there's obvious damage you could ignore them. Other than obvious damage or obvious leaks, the only reason to replace would be for piece of mind and because it's much easier to do when the transmission is out and on the bench. Tim

[bushcat]

So, there is a 86 van close to me at a pick n pull. Assuming it's manual, I would need to grab the transmission and the drive shaft as well if putting on my 85? Is the driveshaft hard to get off? Are there things to look for when pulling the transmission off?

[pinkgrips236]

The driveshaft wasn't too tough to remove. You'll need some 14mm (I think) sockets and wrenches, maybe a longer bar if they're really on tight. Once the bolts are out it should just pop out. Initially, the rear shaft wasn't budging, so I just put the jack under it and gave it a little lift to break it free.

I'd probably check the trans drain plug to see if there are metal shavings on the magnet. If it's reasonably priced, and you don't see a bunch of shavings, I'd probably assume it's ok.

I also picked up a Harbor Freight transmission jack for something like $75. It was helpful, but I think I could do it again without it. What worked best for actually dropping the trans and putting it back into place was sliding 2x4s underneath the van and having a friend on each side of the van holding the 2x4s, lifting or dropping as necessary.

[bushcat]

OK, so I'm getting ready to commit to switching out transmissions. I bought an 84 LE and I'm going to swap it from the LE to my 85. I've read the post and I know there are alignment marks on the transmission but I have some basic questions.

I see what I need to take off as far as bolts and parts.

What I want to know is if I need to be in a specific gear when pulling the transmission when removing or installing?

Also, are aftermarket input and output shaft seals OK or is it recommended to use Toyota OEM seals?

[Burntboot]

I have found its best to disassemble in neutral.

A/M parts can be perfectly fine, part of the decision is whats available, but I also try to consider whats required if it fails.
It is false economy to save a few dollars if it means wasting many hours redoing the same job.
There is no one right answer, it all depends on availability, cost and personal comfort zone.

I will use factory parts whenever I can, simply because it mostly eliminates any fit/function problems that can occur with A/M stuff and the last thing I want to have to question, is wether the part I just installed is causing an issue or not.

Output shaft seal only requires removing the driveshaft to access, input seal requires the tranny to come out to replace.
Pulling the shaft again would piss me off, but having to pull the trans a 2nd time would require the use of words which are not allowed on public forums, just sayin'

[timsrv]

Lol, FYI, it's been my experience that aftermarket seals are every bit as good as Toyota (maybe even better in some cases). I would stick to big name brands though (like National and a few others). I've noticed that some Toyota seals to not be the same as original. In the case of the front pulley seal, the original ones had a steel case. Replacements from Toyota are now plastic. The last one I got was aftermarket. It had a steel case and appeared to be of high quality. I'm sure the plastic bodied Toyota seal would do the same job, but if/when there's a choice, I prefer steel. Tim

[dzignpro]

I have found its best to disassemble in neutral.

A/M parts can be perfectly fine, part of the decision is whats available, but I also try to consider whats required if it fails.
It is false economy to save a few dollars if it means wasting many hours redoing the same job.
There is no one right answer, it all depends on availability, cost and personal comfort zone.

I will use factory parts whenever I can, simply because it mostly eliminates any fit/function problems that can occur with A/M stuff and the last thing I want to have to question, is wether the part I just installed is causing an issue or not.

Output shaft seal only requires removing the driveshaft to access, input seal requires the tranny to come out to replace.
Pulling the shaft again would piss me off, but having to pull the trans a 2nd time would require the use of words which are not allowed on public forums, just sayin'

Hi Timsrv, I'm in need of replacing my output shaft seal. When I see the part for sale, there's a repair tool included that looks like a short tube with a flange. I understand the removal of the driveshaft, but have never actually replaced a seal in any vehicle.

[timsrv]

Output seals are easy. After the drive shaft is removed the seal can be pulled. The transmission output shaft is there (slightly in the way) but the seal can still be removed. I use a special seal pulling tool, but a slot tip screwdriver can be used to pry it out. Just be careful not to damage anything other than the seal. After the seal is removed it's not a bad idea to slide the slip yolk back into the transmission and yank it side to side to check the output shaft bushing. This is a metal ring that holds the yolk in the center of the output shaft housing. If/when they get worn they can allow too much side to side play that results in premature seal failure. If there is a lot of play, you could choose to ignore it, but the new seal will not likely hold up. I try to avoid internal work on transmissions, but replacing an output shaft bushing is a job I've successfully done a few times. When it comes to driving in a new seal, apply a thin film of FIPG or RTV around the periphery then drive it into the output shaft housing. It can be tapped with a hammer (alternating sides), but finding a socket the right size can be very helpful. I have a home made tool around here somewhere that works well. It's just a chunk of 2x4 with a hole I made with a hole saw for the output shaft. I'm not sure about the options for manual transmissions, but not all automatic transmission output shaft seals are the same. I like the 3 piece seals with the felt ring. For that you can get a genuine Toyota seal or the Beck-Arnley #052-3382. Have fun. Tim

[dzignpro]

Awesome instructions Tim, thanks so much. I've read some of your advice on here and always get a lesson from it. That fix you suggested for terminating the power steering pump and removing the air control switch which was leaking worked. Probably a little stressed now on the pump as that air control valve boosted the engine rpms with turning. Manual clutch.

Bought a National seal made here in Mexico from O'Reilly's last night. They had one in stock. On Ebay there's a repair tool for around 40 dlls. that seems it will be used to drive in the seal, if not helping with removal also. I like the chunk of 2x4. I assume the seal sits flush with the outer rim of the housing. Will follow your instructions to a T! I'm nearly broke and need to drive 140 miles up California from my place here Monday and there's a mechanic I could use there. That will loan me the labor cost of 60 bucks. Could probably get her done here for 20, but I'm juggling around 270 dlls to pay a couple of bills and get up there. My van needs valves and or a ring job. It's gobbling up about a quart of oil every 400 miles. Need to try 20/50 oil and maybe the tranny fluid therapy. Definitely need to check each cylinder to see if the rings or valves causing this. I occasionally see a large cloud of white smoke after idling for a couple of hours waiting to cross northbound into the USA when I finally crank up the speed after crossing then it mostly goes away. I see a bit of the smoke as she idles. 110-130-130-125 compression. The service manual states lowest compression at 128 psi. That 110 is too much of a difference. It misses. Passed last year's smog check after having a 580 dll CA catalytic converter installed. Now I got a possible manifold gasket leak and a bad muffler. Speedometer got bored out with a bad cable and broken connector. Got a replacement from a junk yard that is missing one of the plastic tabs. Got a spare speedometer housing that's not the exact version, but works. I am saving that one until I figure out a remedy. I think I have close to 280k miles. Steering column is with some clicking sounds and small movements, less so with the wheel in the up position. I've already had the wheel off and tightened some nuts that helped some. Need shims. I have the yellow service manual for this 1988 van. Got some other problems that aren't as dire as what I've already mentioned. I'll eventually post these problems after I've studied what's already been said in this forum, no need to reply. Have a great day!

Here's the repair tool that's available:11431

[dzignpro]

Ordered this part, says it's incompatible with the output shaft. Which side faces outward that I'll use to tap into the tranny? It seems wider than the other seals, does it stick out a bit?
I've got a manual transmission.

[timsrv]

If you're talking about the Beck-Arnley #052-3382 I mentioned above, that's the one used for automatic transmissions (not compatible with a manual transmission). If you purchased that based on my post, then I'm sorry for the confusion.

With any oil seal of this type, the open side of the seal always goes toward the inside. It's also a good idea to put a little grease on the inside diameter where it will contact the shaft. I also like to put a super thin layer of FIPG sealant around the outer periphery before driving it home. Tim

[dzignpro]

ok, Thanks Tim, I bought it because it was stated compatible by another vendor. I'll order the correct part. Tranny had lost 1 qrt of oil due to mechanic incorrectly diagnosing the leak. It's getting increasingly difficult to do these types of repairs on my vehicle due to health problems, namely, double vision caused by a brain tumor that is progressing. Wish our body parts could be as easily removed as our vehicle's.

[dzignpro]

ok, I'm in my retirement condo in TJ now. Van is parked facing the street in my parking spot. I'm nearing getting ready to do this myself. Just need some grease which I'm heading out now to buy using my other car, a 2005 Scion XB that's never let me down. Got a seal puller, two National brand seals, the correct parts, in case I mess one up, the gasket sealer, it's 90 minutes to dry so will let the van sit before I drop it to the ground, it's on jack stands with the rear raised with blocks securing the front wheels. Tranny full of gear oil now. Parking brake on. In this raised position, after it has been driven with very low levels of oil, the oil is up to the fill hole level after adding over a liter's worth. Will this leak out when I pull the seal? I'll have extra oil if it does. I'll be marking everything with a white grease pencil, then removing the 4 bolts holding the shaft to the differential. I'll check the play before installing the new seal. As she sits, there is a bit of play already. Thanks in advance for all your replies and help with this.

[timsrv]

Transmission oil should only be added while the van is level. Once the gear oil is high enough to start dripping out the fill hole, that's the correct oil level. Assuming that part was done correctly, and then the van was lifted from the rear, very little (if any) oil should leak when you pull that seal. Just keep in mind the parking brake won't do any good if the rear wheels are off the ground, so use blocks/chocks on your front wheels to keep it from rolling........especially if it's on a slope. Tim

[dzignpro]

I replaced the seal with a National brand. There was a little bit of a rough line encircling the main shaft near where the seal was carefully rubbed a piece of plastic to remove it without damaging or gouging the shaft. I figured this could wear the seal out faster if not done. I greased the rubber and applied the gasket maker red silicone to the perimeter of the seal which was also of the same color. I pounded it in as gently as I could with a hammer without damaging the seal. Now, before removing the seal, and when checking movement of the shaft after removal with the shaft replaced less the seal, I detected movement. I think it is a fraction of an 1/8th inch, say maybe a 1/16th or so. I am curious what I should do at this point. I've not seen any oil leaking yet. Is this a difficult job to replace the bushing once the tranny is removed?

[timsrv]

In my world I don't worry too much about things like this until they become a problem. Seals can fail so only replacing the seal was an appropriate 1st step (hopefully the end of the issue). However, if tail shaft seal failure becomes a reoccurring thing, then a worn bushing and/or damaged drive-shaft yolk may be to blame. If it develops another leak here in less than 20k miles, I would assume the tail shaft bushing needs to be replaced. So far I have only done this job on automatic transmissions, so I don't know off the top of my head what may differ on a manual, but I would assume the tail shaft housing would likely need to be removed in order to drive-out and replace........at least that's how it's done on automatics. The tail shaft housing on an automatic can be removed and reinstalled from under the van without removing the transmission. Hopefully you won't need to go there, but if you do, consult the service manual. Tim

PS: Seals typically leave a shiny spot on the shaft surface, but there shouldn't be a noticeable groove. I've always used ~ 220 grit emery cloth or sand paper to rough-up the shiny spots and "minor" grooves before re-inserting the shaft. If/when there's an excessive groove, sometimes the seal can be positioned a bit shallower or deeper in the bore so the contact spot changes, but if/when I'm not comfortable with a heavy groove I'll start looking for another yolk or perhaps a whole new shaft. Tim