Brake Light Troubleshooting

[1987]

I just moved to California from Canada so I am required to take a driving test in order to get a California State drivers license. Well, I went to take the driving test this morning and was told that I could not take the test because my right brake light is not coming on when I apply the brakes.

I checked the fuses under the glove compartment and everything there seems fine. I don't think the light bulbs are burnt out because when I turn on the night driving lights by rolling the end of the turn signal lever those rear lights come on. It's just when I apply the brakes that nothing happens on the right hand side. The left hand lights work just fine. Any ideas?

Also, I have the classic "Christmas tree" dash lights issue where my warning lights on the dash flicker on when I drive on rough, bumpy roads. Could my brake light issue be related?

thanks in advance and my apologies if this issue has already been addressed in previous threads.

Mark

[originalkwyjibo]

Your rear bulbs are dual filament. This means a single bulb with two filaments of different light output. One dimmer for nighttime driving/parking lights and a brighter one to overpower the dimmer filament when you step on the brakes. It sounds like your brake light filament is burned out and the bulb needs to be replaced. This should be an 1157 bulb and if your not close to an auto parts store will be available anywhere you can buy a quart of motor oil like Wal-Mart or convenience and grocery stores. It is not likely related to your "christmas dash". For this, it sounds like you should start with the connections on the alternator and go from there. Of course searching the forums for "Christmas dash" will give you lots of other options on what to check.

[brentlehr]

If replacing the bulb doesn't work, remove the tail light assembly and inspect it. Corrosion or chafed wiring can cause issues but as already mentioned, if the tail light works but the brake light doesn't you might just have a bad bulb. Start there.

[1987]

Well that was easy.

Thanks a lot.

[rootbeerrain]

Hi guys and gals.

I had a dream last night that I got pulled over for this so I gotta get it fixed now haha.

Whole story: a week ago I replaced the bad alternator with a nice new one. the old one went bad because the harness that plugged into it had two of the three wires showing copper, and the third one was completely broken off. Of course the harness is NLA so I spliced some new wires with insulated female connectors and the van runs fine now. Not sure if this is related to the alternator incident but I figured more info is better than less.

Also, weird things I've noticed with the lights: sometimes in the mornings when I turn the lights on they actually don't come on (but the dash lights do) and they'll come on when I flick the brights for a sec and then the normal lights will stay on. Also there what a while when I would hold the brights on and id hear a buzzing sound near the fuse box area by the glovebox. it doesn't really do that anymore but food for thought.

Lastly, I checked all the fuses when I realized my brake lights weren't working and alas the fuse indicated as "stop" was blown. So I bought a new one on the way home from work two days ago and then yesterday during lunch I checked on the new one to find it was blown already! This is my problem, I need to find the cause of this short.

I figured I'd ask you guys/gals before spending who knows how long tracing all the wires. Hopefully it's a common issue someone can direct me to a common wire that shorts or something.



Thanks for the read!
-Spencer

[timsrv]

The hot side of the brake light circuit only uses two color coded wires........Grn/Red & Grn/Wht. You should do a visual inspection of wire harness where ever you can gain access. Pay particular attention to any wires of the colors mentioned above & trace them as far as you can. Check under the dash where the brake light switch is and pull the tail lights (2 screws each side) and check the wires behind for any damage. Any scotch locks or other type hacks should be remove and repair as required. You should also pull the brake light bulbs and verify the correct bulbs are installed (should be 1157). With any luck your short will be somewhere in these areas. Tim

[rootbeerrain]

Thanks a bunch Tim, that sort of "where to start first" advice is exactly what I was looking for. I'll definitely try those areas.

Interesting update: this morning the usual flicking the brights on really quick didn't get the headlights to illuminate. I had to turn the brights on and off several times until the nighttime lights actually came on. Hrmmm...

[technocj]

Thanks a bunch Tim, that sort of "where to start first" advice is exactly what I was looking for. I'll definitely try those areas.

Interesting update: this morning the usual flicking the brights on really quick didn't get the headlights to illuminate. I had to turn the brights on and off several times until the nighttime lights actually came on. Hrmmm...

After a similar headlight failure scenario, I found a burned connector with melted plastic on the back of the fuse panel. I cut off a piece of the connector, and used a new wire connector to the fuse box, sorry no pics. My fuse panel has 2 severe burn spots, and the wipers started blowing the fuse, I jury rigged that as well. Remove the glove box, one screw holds the panel on, you can pull it out enough to examine the the back. Best of luck.

[timsrv]

After a similar headlight failure scenario, I found a burned connector with melted plastic on the back of the fuse panel. I cut off a piece of the connector, and used a new wire connector to the fuse box, sorry no pics. My fuse panel has 2 severe burn spots, and the wipers started blowing the fuse, I jury rigged that as well. Remove the glove box, one screw holds the panel on, you can pull it out enough to examine the the back. Best of luck.

Yes, good point. Rootbeer, fuse box problems are typically associated with faint smells of burning plastic that you will occasionally notice while you're driving and/or using the problematic accessory. The damage to the back of the fuse block typically looks like this:


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/electrical/IMG_3868_zpsf26lol8t.jpg

There are also some connectors under your steering column that have been known for burning like this. Pull the lower plastic cover off the column and check these out. I recommend unplugging these and looking at the pins inside. Pay particular attention to the flat blue connector under there. Replace or bypass anything that looks burned. Tim

[rootbeerrain]

362736283629
The one on the left in all of the above pictures is the driver's side top brake bulb. it's different from the other three brake bulbs which are the correct 1157 bulbs. It looks really similar, like almost identical. the differences were the printed figures on the side and no embossed wording, and also the bulb was kinda stuck in the socket. I'm not sure if you can tell in the picture but the black base of the bulb sort of cracked when trying to remove it, and it looks like it possibly slightly melted part of the socket around that connection.

could this his little bulb be the problem? I know it's aftermarket but it looks so similar.

p.s.
Is 1157 a toyota part number?

Thanks guys! I'll be pulling the fuse box for inspection tonight.

-Spencer

[originalkwyjibo]

1157 is a standardized bulb designation. It appears you have a 2057 on the left. This bulb is largely the same and essentially compatible but has slightly lower wattage on the low side filament. I have seen these dual filament bulbs crammed in backwards causing the indexing pins to be difficult to disengage. Perhaps this was the cause of it being stuck?

[timsrv]

I doubt that was your problem, but I would still put an 1157 back in there "just because". As Original says, it's possible to cram them in incorrectly, so just make sure the indexing pins are oriented correctly (pins are set at different heights). When bulb is clocked correctly it should easily twist into the socket. The big reason I suggested checking bulbs is sometimes you'll find an 1156 (single conductor bulb) in an 1157 (double conductor) socket. This can allow the single contact (center of bulb base) to short between the contacts inside the socket. That weird bulb you have may not be an 1157, but at least it has 2 contacts. Tim

[Deesh]

Hey All,

I went to get my 2wd 1987 Toyota cargo van inspected the other day and realized my brake lights are not working, fun! The fuse is fine and doesn't seem to be the issue, I got a new brake signal switch and that didn't make them light up either.. so I'm guessing it is an issue in the wire? Any known trouble spots for this?

Also, without having brake lights I'm having a hard time remembers which part of the tail light array lights up when the brakes are depressed... can anyone with functioning lights point me in the right direction? All the bulbs appear to light up for their other uses just no action on the brake pedal. Any ideas would be great!

Thanks a bunch,

Dan

[JPERL]

When the brakes are depressed the red tail lights just get brighter. The lights you see when you turn on the tail lights are the same lights you see when you brake only brighter. Did you by chance check both of these fuses circled in red?

5082

[blakebecker37130]

Check to make sure the dual filament bulb is being utilized. As JPERL states, “the red tail lights just get brighter”. This is due to the second filament activating. I have included the tail light diagram for reference.

5083

Best regards,

Blake

[Deesh]

Thanks for advice, I hadn't checked the tail fuse prior to this but it checked out fine, I pulled the bulbs and they appear to all be okay on both filaments, I'll use that diagram to troubleshoot further. Thanks for the help, I'll keep y'all posted with how it goes as for now I'm just clicking my running lights on when I brake...

[Cali Cruiser]

It may be a good idea to replace the bulbs, even if the filaments appear intact. The contacts on the bottom of the bulb can get squished over time and not have a good connection when placed in the socket.

Also, look at the contacts in each socket on the tail light assembly. If they appear corroded, be sure to clean the contacts. I recently had to use a small Dremel attachment to clean up the contacts on my van.

Finally, if you are still having issues, there is a wire that touches the metal cylinder portion of each socket on the tail light assembly. The metal cylinder can be pushed out the front of the socket with a flathead screwdriver from the backside of the socket. If you do this, simply twist the wire end again and re-install the metal cylinder. The wire should have a good contact with the metal cylinder side when it is put back together. My van had a loose wire that caused intermittent brake light issues until I figured this out. If you need pics, I can try loading some when I have more time.

[Deesh]

I replaced two of the four bulbs and inspected the rest of the dual filament bulbs, running lights are OK but no response off the break lights. I inspected both tail light assemblies and they appear to be corrosion free and with no melted wires or anything obvious.

double checked the fuses and re tried my new brake switch, no luck. the lights light up red but don't increase in intensity with the brake pedal... does this mean there is a break in the line somewhere or is there another reason I am overlooking?


It may be a good idea to replace the bulbs, even if the filaments appear intact. The contacts on the bottom of the bulb can get squished over time and not have a good connection when placed in the socket.

Also, look at the contacts in each socket on the tail light assembly. If they appear corroded, be sure to clean the contacts. I recently had to use a small Dremel attachment to clean up the contacts on my van.

Finally, if you are still having issues, there is a wire that touches the metal cylinder portion of each socket on the tail light assembly. The metal cylinder can be pushed out the front of the socket with a flathead screwdriver from the backside of the socket. If you do this, simply twist the wire end again and re-install the metal cylinder. The wire should have a good contact with the metal cylinder side when it is put back together. My van had a loose wire that caused intermittent brake light issues until I figured this out. If you need pics, I can try loading some when I have more time.

[Cali Cruiser]

Make sure that the two contacts at the bottom of the socket are smooth. This pictures shows a rough finish on the contacts. These contacts should be a smooth copper color or shiny silver. If they are not, gently sand them smooth. Good contacts are important to get the power needed to light up the tail light filament as well as the brake light filament.

[Deesh]

cleaned all the contacts, they were a little dirty but not too bad, shiny now! but still no brake/stop lights, going to take it to a shop I guess?

[Cali Cruiser]

Before taking it to a shop, take a moment to push the metal cylinder out of each plastic socket housing and re-twist the white wire end so it has a good contact with the metal cylinder wall, and then reinstall. All of these little connections can loosen up over time, even when they appear solid.

5093

[blakebecker37130]

Deesh,

use your multimeter, if you have one and check to see if you are getting signal post brake switch. If you are then the issue is post switch and should be pretty easy to resolve. A good meter can be had for less than 70.00 and will pay for it's self quick. I like my Actron CP-7677. It's great for these vans because it has a function to check rpm and comes in handy when doing other tasks like timing.

Best regards,

Blake

[Burntboot]

Another indispensable tool for these kind of repairs is a simple 12V test light.
They can be had for a few dollars just about anywhere, even some of the "better" dollar stores carry them!

They are no replacement for a meter, but they can tell you a lot without having to find your glasses to see if your on the right scale....
Some people are wary of meters as they can appear complicated (and sometimes they are) but there is nothing intimidating about a test light.

Quickly eliminates the many of the variables, like verifying if your new brake switch is actually working, it probably is, but unless you check it electrically you don't know 100% that it is.

[Kirkmccoll]

cleaned all the contacts, they were a little dirty but not too bad, shiny now! but still no brake/stop lights, going to take it to a shop I guess?

Deesh, did you ever resolve your issue? I'm experiencing the same problem.

Some of my wiring seems pretty suspect as well. When I press down on the brake pedal with ignition switch off and key out - my interior fan will turn on?..

I'm replacing the bulbs tomorrow to rule out the burnt out filament possibility.

Kirk

[warmbeercoldwomen]

Deesh, did you ever resolve your issue? I'm experiencing the same problem.

Some of my wiring seems pretty suspect as well. When I press down on the brake pedal with ignition switch off and key out - my interior fan will turn on?..

I'm replacing the bulbs tomorrow to rule out the burnt out filament possibility.

Kirk


Kirk,
Did you ever figure out this problem. I'm having the same issue and cant seem to trouble shoot!
Much appreciated.

Riley