Manual shift issue; hard to get into gear

[robgagnon]

It's an 1987 manual. The symptoms are that sometimes, but not always, it will be difficult to get it into first gear and second gear and will require jiggling the stick around a little to get it in. Other times it will not want to go into reverse, that the gears are still spinning so of course I don't want to grind it so I turn off the engine and restart in reverse.

I do not think I have an issue with the clutch disengaging enough, I have experienced that symptom on other cars.

I expected to pull the center console and find a lose nut or something on the cable but no that isn't it.

I have the repair manual and have read the part about setting the linkage using a rod, but I admit I have not checked it. The manual is a little vague if you are me, or I am dense, or inexperienced, because if I put a rod in there, how do I "feel" what is correct neutral on the transmission?

So, what is my likely problem here, and how do I take it to the next step of diagnosis? Is there anything like the selectors inside the tranny that can be loose and cause issues like this.

The van has low miles and I don't know how long it has been like this, since I am a recent buyer. I have another van that shift fine so I know what it is supposed to feel like.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Rob

[robgagnon]

PS, there was request for help on a MT shift adjustment - just search for
MT Shift Linkage AdjustmentBut there was no answer on the post, and I would be interested in the answer to that question.

[Burntboot]

With the console off and the transmission in neutral, there are 2 holes on either side of the metal bracket that retains the shifter.
If everything is good, the shifter holes line up perfectly with the side holes, I found a long screwdriver that perfectly fit the holes.
That said, cable length adjustment (just like parking brakes) isn't something that should be adjusted.
If it's off, best to find out why and correct whats really wrong.

Given your symptoms, I would be looking for a problem with the hydraulics.
You're not getting sufficient travel, thats why its hard to select gears (but easy once shut off.)
Continuing to drive it under those conditions will wipe out the friction materials quickly.

You might get away with flushing and bleeding but you should be prepared to replace master and slave.
There are several threads referencing all you need to know.
BB

[originalkwyjibo]

One thing that may help with diagnosing possible hydraulic issues is pumping the clutch. Just like brakes a small leak, whether internal or external and visibly dripping, may be temporarily overcome by pumping the peddle thereby temporarily increasing pressure. Try doing this when shifting to reverse and see if it helps. Set up your scenario for a difficult engagement to reverse and then instead of shutting off the engine, pump the clutch peddle several times and try again. Try this with first gear too. If ease of engagement improves it is likely a hydraulic issue. Shifter adjustment while seemingly vague is as stated in the manual. Put the shifter in neutral and if the guide pin doesn't slide right in then adjust the cable accordingly. I agree with burntboot though, if it was working and now it's not, even if it is remedied with a cable adjustment, something caused it to happen and the root cause should be investigated. By that I mean maybe it is hydraulic or maybe something made contact with the cables or mounting brackets from underneath and bent them or a bracket came loose. Perhaps a cable is chaffing on something and beginning to fray. Hopefully this is of some help.

[scotty]

I pulled out my transmission and had it worked on, then installed it with a new clutch plate, master cylinder and slave. It shifts into the other gears just fine, even though the clutch seems like it needs to be adjusted a little. It won't shift into 5th or reverse at all, engine running and not. It also seems like the shift lever isn't moving as far to the right as it did before. Any ideas?

[scotty]

I asked in another forum and got this reply...

"ok in that case i was right and wrong. they is a set up holes in shifter that needs to to be alined in nutral . they is a set of holes in shifter in floor and on trans that you have to be able to pin at the same time to set travel. who knows motor mount a or trans mont may have moved trowing things off."

ANyone know what these adjustment holes are called and how to set them?

[Burntboot]

That quote is referencing how to adjust the shifting linkage.
Generally speaking it should never need adjusting but it wouldn't hurt to check it.
With the centre console off if you look straight down you'll see a hole on either side of the shifter (8mm IIRC) if all is adjusted correctly, you should be able to slide an 8mm "pin" from one side through the shifter and out the other side.
Would also be a good idea to check the ball and sockets on the ends of the cables, sometimes the boots can rip, then crap gets in and they stiffen up.

If it was a clutch issue, you should still be able to shift into 5th and reverse with the engine off.
I would be tempted to think its something internal.
What work was done on the tranny?

Hopefully someone else will chime in with better news

[originalkwyjibo]

I stripped down a 5 spd for a 1977 Triumph TR7 when I was a teenager. When reassembling I installed a interlock spool backwards that caused a similar problem. I would check all your linkage for binding and then contact the tranny builder to see what they say.

[scotty]

It was rebuilt...bearings and synchros replaced. The gears were good. The rubber boots on the ends of the shift cables looked pretty bad. If i pull them off and try and get it into 5th by moving the lever at the tranny, which way do i push it?

[originalkwyjibo]

You could try disconnecting the cables at the transmission and then make sure the shifter and cables move smoothly and with full range. If this proves successful then have someone move the shifter from left to right in neutral then back and forth through 5th and reverse while you watch from underneath to see which way to move the selector levers. I just helped someone else with a shifting issue that wouldn't allow easy or sometimes full engagement of 1st, 3rd, and 5th gears. It turned out his mechanic put the control cables under the shifter bracket(It's a diesel and the control cables come up under the front of the shifter whereas the gas version the cables come through the engine cover from behind the shifter.)instead of in the slots where they go and then told him, "I have an extra clip and I don't know where it goes." This made it so the cables were effectively too short.

[scotty]

I went under there and got someone to move the shifter, first while it was connected and then after i removed the cables. It looks like the longer lower lever is supposed to move further forward to get it into 5th, but i can't get it to move. I haven't moved the cables since the tranny was pulled, and it was shifting fine before. So, i'm guessing something is wrong internally. The guy who worked on it said it was shifting manually through the various gear positions, but i wonder how he would know that? I had it in the car with the cables hooked up and couldn't really figure out what position the levers should be in. Oh well.

[Burntboot]

Sorry to hear about all the trouble.
When I had mine rebuilt I had a heck of a time finding the gears.
Something was done internally that was different than before, ended up maxing out one cable adjustment and minimizing the other, took several days of fiddling about to get things so that the adjusting tool fit without binding. Luckily I didn't have to pull the tranny out, I suspect they forgot to mark where the levers were supposed to go.
Hopefully you don't have to do the Re&Re

[scotty]

Yeah, thanks. I wish it was adjustable, but if i can push it into place without the cables attached, i think it's gotta be something internal.

[ingmire]

Yesterday I had to use a lot of muscle to get my van into gear. I believe it was like this for 1st, 2nd and 3rd. It feels like it could keep me stuck in neutral, though it hasn't yet. Then other times it allows me to shift regularly.

my van is currently idling high 1500 (at stop when warm). Even though I have the idle adjustment screw turned all the way down. I believe this high idle is causing a stutter when shifting into first. To 'remedy' the shutter I have been riding the clutch a lot.

Does my hard shift issue sound like a clutch replacement is in order? If so is there a thread anyone one knows of here with info?

can anyone recommend a way to get my idle where it's supposed to be (750 I believe) other than the idle adjustment screw.

thanks!

[Ian R.]

I notice when the van is idling higher than spec it makes shifting into gear difficult from a stop. I'd check the codes and for vacuum leaks. At least before worrying about the clutch. Try and get the rpms down. Does it shift easily when the engine is off?

[djshimon]

Check your master cylinder fluid-it's the same reservoir as the master brake fluid but there's a separator in there which makes it hard to tell if one is lower than the other. It's hard to tell if you're low on fluid unless you give the reservoir a little shake.
Did you turn the idle screw both ways to try to lower the rpm's? Your timing may be off if you can't lower your rpm's with the idle screw.
And yes, check codes.

[YodaIsAGungan]

This same issue started happening to me yesterday on my Diesel 89 TownAce 2C-T. Started out when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. then progressed to all the other gears.

Any follow-up on what the problem was?

thanks!

[Megadysart]

I've had issues on and off with 1st and reverse being hard to shift into. Sometimes if I step on the clutch pedal and wait for 5 seconds or so it'll shift right into gear like it's supposed to. I've replaced my clutch master cylinder with 2 units from rock auto and one from autozone. The 2 from rock auto leaked within 6 months and the one from autozone wouldn't bleed at all and I couldn't get a clutch pedal no matter how I bled the system. I finally caved and I'm ordering an OEM one in a couple days. I'm hoping I haven't done any significant damage to my synchros or blocker rings or anything else inside the transmission but I'm gonna probably end up rebuilding it this year as well as get a new clutch. :?:

Anyway, check around the clutch pedal and under the dash for leaking brake fluid, and check the clutch slave cylinder for leaks as well (it's on the passenger side of the transmission).

Good luck,

Danny:silvervan:

[mairbear]

Heeyyyyy ..... I finally had the moolah for a freshly rebuilt transmission for my '86 5 speed cargo. Also took the opportunity to get a new clutch, resurfaced flywheel, slave cylinder and rear seal installed by my local mechanic. He allowed me to buy my own parts and installed them which made it a lot more affordable.

However, the clutch is not a smooth as I'd like. Its not always happy going into first... whereas sometimes it slides in perfectly. As well, in reverse, I get some resistance on occasion... But mostly going into first when starting up or downshifting. ... when this happens I relax the pressure and try again and it eventually goes: sometimes after second attempt and sometimes have to fuss with it.

This was not the result I was hoping for after buying the best possible parts new online... I love this van and look to baby it especially since this is a

Any ideals where it may need attention? Master clutch cylinder? Gear box? Poor install? I did take it back and they check for air in the lines, and tightened something up and it was very nice after that but didn't last.

Thanks always to the Van-fam ... always great to see y'all around. Thank you

[timsrv]

What gear oil are you using in the transmission?

[mairbear]

Thank you for the reply

Called mechanic he says he followed recommendation and says it was likely kendall 75-90 .... any recommendations on that?

In the initial time after install, 1st, 3rd and reverse were resisting shift.... definitely worse off than the previously installed clutch.

Took it back for some attention and the mec pumped the clutch and it looked like he was trying to eliminate air in the lines but found non. Then he made another adjustment in the gear box and sent me on my way. Was great for a while but now it really refuses to go into 1st at times and I really have to fuss with it, which is obviously disappointing.


Before the update, the clutch pedal used to clip and make a snapping-like sound. That has gone away after new clutch and slave cylinder replacement but now 1st is so unpredictable and mediocre.

Thank you

[timsrv]

These older transmissions use "soft yellow metal parts" and some gear oil will not play nice with them. If you're using a std type gear oil, make sure it is GL-4 or GL-5 compliant. If you're using a synthetic, make sure it says it's "synchro safe" for transmissions with "soft yellow metal parts" as the synchros are particularly vulnerable to the effects of some GL-5 synthetics.

Read this thread for more information:

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?223-Clutch-Replacement

If it's not a gear oil induced problem, then it's likely a mistake made somewhere in the mechanical work you had done. Good luck on getting it sorted out. Tim

[Burntboot]

Tim's advice is spot on and needs to be investigated
Kendall carries a couple of variants but they all carry the following disclaimer
Perhaps I haven't hit on the right product but I couldn't find any without the following info.

From Kendall's site
Applications

Service fill of conventional differentials in passenger cars and trucks
Top-off only of limited-slip differentials in passenger cars and light trucks (1)
Service fill of differentials, final drives and transfer cases in some off-highway equipment
Non-synchronized manual transmissions in trucks, buses and heavy equipment where the manufacturer specifies an API GL-5 or MT-1 gear oil

(1) Note: For complete drain and refill, many limited-slip differentials may require the manufacturer’s specified gear lubricant or supplemental additive. Refer to the owner’s manual for specific requirements.

[adonis Balladares]

I had similar issues and I adjusted the push rod of the clutch master and now shift beautiful like brand new.

[SeattleSquatch]

Tim's advice is spot on and needs to be investigated
Kendall carries a couple of variants but they all carry the following disclaimer
Perhaps I haven't hit on the right product but I couldn't find any without the following info.

From Kendall's site
Applications



Service fill of conventional differentials in passenger cars and trucks
Top-off only of limited-slip differentials in passenger cars and light trucks (1)
Service fill of differentials, final drives and transfer cases in some off-highway equipment
Non-synchronized manual transmissions in trucks, buses and heavy equipment where the manufacturer specifies an API GL-5 or MT-1 gear oil

(1) Note: For complete drain and refill, many limited-slip differentials may require the manufacturer’s specified gear lubricant or supplemental additive. Refer to the owner’s manual for specific requirements.


I found this bit of research that might be of interest. It's a study of gear oils sponsored by Amsoil:
https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?7582-Transmission-oil-vs-Differential-oil-87-Toyota-Van-4wd&p=44660#post44660


Pg 16 of the attachment on my post gets into Copper Corrosion Tests across 14 brands which I think would be relevant to what's in the syncrhos?

-Steve