Dead Alternator, No Dash Lights

[brentlehr]

Just replaced another alternator... I'm on #8 'lifetime warranty' ones in four years and 70K miles... only this time I didn't get the Christmas tree lights on the dash. What gives? I just noticed my voltmeter drop to 12 volts while driving.

[llamavan]

The dash lights won't go on if the alternator's regulator gives up the ghost.

When you turn the key to start the van and get to the position where you get dash lights, the battery light should be on. If it's not, the regulator is shot. Verifying this every time you start up is a good habit. :yes: Guess how I learned this habit ... yeah, on the road in WY (fortunately with a spare alternator) in western-Oregon-style, all-day-long pouring rain. :dizzy:

Gwen

[timsrv]

I went through that "lifetime warranty alternator" phase. After about alternator #8 I got tired of the hassle and got a good alternator. Get one that's been remanufactured by Denso & you'll have one that lasts for years instead of months. If your power steering pump is leaking on it the life will be short no matter which one you get, so make sure that's not happening. Tim

PS: www.rockauto.com has Denso rebuilds for a reasonable price. Tim

[originalkwyjibo]

Tim I'm curious about alternator application. In another thread you wrote "I install a Denso part #210-0272 (http://www.amazon.com/Denso-210-0272-Remanufactured-Alternator/dp/B000C5SF4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405770103&sr=8-1&keywords=Denso+part+%23210-0272)." On the rock auto site this is listed as fitting only 1989. There is currently no Denso listings for '87 or '88 and different Denso part numbers for '86 and '89. Meanwhile Bosch, Pure Energy, and AC Delco list the same one for '86-'89 and Beck-Arnley has the same number for '84-89. I do see some notes regarding an interchange for 60a and 70a. I'm just curious if you know the differences.

[llamavan]

I don't know why the application disagreement — all vans (1984-1989) have the same mount and take the same alternator.

Gwen

[originalkwyjibo]

I knew that physically they're the same I was more curious about amperage or something like that.

[llamavan]

Functionally identical as well.

Gwen

[originalkwyjibo]

This is intriguing especially since it looks like I need one and RockAuto doesn't currently have one for an '88. I'm sure the '89 will work just fine as it has for others on this site but even the Denso website lists part# 210-0122 for '84 and '85 http://www.densoproducts.com/product.aspx?zpid=12193, 210-0155 for '86 http://www.densoproducts.com/product.aspx?zpid=12212, 210-0115 for '87 and '88 http://www.densoproducts.com/product.aspx?zpid=12246, and 210-0272 for '89 http://www.densoproducts.com/product.aspx?zpid=12259. '84 and '85 specs are 60 amp but all the others are 70 amp. The other sparse specs provided on Denso's site are the same for all four part number listings. The prices are different as well. This may require some deeper digging if for nothing else than to satisfy my curiosity.

[timsrv]

Yes, the difference is in amp ratings (60A vs 70A). IMO this is of no concern & I would freely interchange any Denso alternator that was made to fit any year van as long as it was 84 - 89 range. If you make a habit of pulling heavy & constant DC loads, then I might worry a tiny bit about putting a 70A in an 84 - 85 as there is a slight potential of overloading the wire harness of the van. Otherwise I would consider it a non-issue. Tim

[filterway]

The dash lights won't go on if the alternator's regulator gives up the ghost.

When you turn the key to start the van and get to the position where you get dash lights, the battery light should be on. If it's not, the regulator is shot. Verifying this every time you start up is a good habit. :yes: Guess how I learned this habit ... yeah, on the road in WY (fortunately with a spare alternator) in western-Oregon-style, all-day-long pouring rain. :dizzy:

Gwen

Hi Gwen,

when i turn the key to start the van, the battery light is not on (also the radiator light is not on). do you know exactly which part of the alternator cause the battery light not to be on?

thanks a lot

Jerome
1988 4WD LE

[Cadin]

Heya, FWIW, I just had the same issue with a new alt, and it turned out that my engine fuse, while unblown, was surface corroded and not making good contact. My blinkers were doing the same thing at the fuse block.

I would check continuity from the 7.5 A Engine fuse while you're in there. You can jumper the "L" terminal to ground with the ignition "ON", and it will illuminate the light on the dash. Otherwise it would be your regulator as far as I know.

The Denso units are superior, and built far more robustly. Interestingly enough, the Denso alternator in my Honda Odyssey that I just replaced (Same as 90-98 Accords), seems like it would bolt up to the van (What do the Gurus think?) and the 90-93 have the same connector. (The "B" terminal and plug orientation might be a little different angle, but they are much easier to find in good condition in the parts yards.) ((I have both here, I may just try it...))

Edit: Disclaimer: The regulator connector is different, but can be swapped for the three connector style.


Also, Tim, didn't you mention at some point (here or elsewhere (TVP)) that the battery needs to be fully charged to not have the alternator destroy itself upon startup?

[filterway]

I would check continuity from the 7.5 A Engine fuse while you're in there. You can jumper the "S" terminal to ground with the ignition "ON", and it will illuminate the light on the dash. Otherwise it would be your regulator as far as I know.

Gwen, can you explain me more about the "S" terminal, where i can find it?

[Cadin]

Here's the Pic Tim provided for my thread:

(You're looking for: )

L= +12v - Switched - from CHARGE light
I= +12v - Switched - from Ignition
S= +12V - Constant - Sensor

B= +12V - Constant - Batt. Main
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT pics/electrical/alt_diagram_zps907cbf7d.jpg



This will allow you to confirm it's not the wiring, which it sounds like is not the problem anyway; just normal "lifetime" rebuilds doing their thing.

It's hard to put a price on reliability when you are miles from anywhere!

[filterway]

good! now i know where to go!

but, is it something i can perform while the alternator is not removed? it look not easy to reach the terminal

Jerome

[timsrv]

Also, Tim, didn't you mention at some point (here or elsewhere (TVP)) that the battery needs to be fully charged to not have the alternator destroy itself upon startup?

They'll survive start-up no problem, but they do not do well with heavy sustained loads. A dead battery is enough to kill an alternator but it usually takes about 20-30 minutes. these alternators are not built to charge dead batteries. They are only designed to replenish what gets used by the starter & to power accessories (like lights, heater, wipers, etc). The genuine Denso alternators will tolerate charging dead batteries occasionally, but you're pushing your luck. Doing that even once can cause the cheap generic rebuilds to fail (I've seen it happen). My advice is to buy the slightly more expensive Denso rebuilds (actually rebuilt by Denso). Tim

[originalkwyjibo]

You can jumper the "S" terminal to ground with the ignition "ON", and it will illuminate the light on the dash. Ummm, unless I'm missing something, you DO NOT want to do that. The wire to the "S" terminal goes through FL 0.5G and directly to battery positive. This would likely produce a large arc and burn out your fusible link. The "L" terminal is your charge light circuit.

[Cadin]

Ummm, unless I'm missing something, you DO NOT want to do that. The wire to the "S" terminal goes through FL 0.5G and directly to battery positive. This would likely produce a large arc and burn out your fusible link. The "L" terminal is your charge light circuit.

Quite Right! Thank you for the correction, I have amended the above post.

http://i.imgur.com/Y1JT3nc.jpg