Standard to LE (add tach) and LE to standard cluster swaps

[ninz30]

So I've come across an le van cluster with a tac... My cargo has no tac and was planning on installing an aftermarket gauge. But I'd think it be cleaner to install an le cluster with the tac. Before I tear into this ADDED project I'd like to know if it's even possible to wire this up. Any help is appreciated!

[Burntboot]

Not only is it possible it is relatively simple to do.
First, throw away the manual on this one, go by the notes on the printed circuit board itself.
(I had several packs on hand, but even the one in the vehicle didn't match up to what my wiring diagram said it should be)
Several wires need to move from this plug to that one. I made a chart of the 2 separate packs and then did a one wire at a time change and crossed off the changes on the diagrams as I went, seemed like a waste of time until the first interruption, by the 6th interruption I was really glad I "wasted" the time making the diagrams as I never would have been able to accomplish what I had set out to do, without the backup notes.

I would also highly recommend cleaning the pack while its apart and replacing all the bulbs. I didn't bother doing the LED upgrade and am happy with the factory lighting, with a clean pack and new bulbs, I actually have to turn the dimmer down a bit.
BB

[ninz30]

Cool, thank you! When I get around to doing it maybe I'll do a write up.

[samtrak]

update to this?

the camry of the same era was a plug and play swap for the whole gauge cluster. wouldn't it be nice if things were so easy?

[Trackbike]

I have an instrument cluster from an early 1985 LE with a tach and was wondering if it will work in my 1986 cargo van by just changing pins in the plugs

[Old one]

I went the other way, from a 87 tach cluster into my 84 DX. I changed pins to correct positions, had to find rpm wire going to computer, splice and run a new wire for tach signal (found the wire going to the computer under drivers footrest near left footwell), finally change oil pressure warning light sensor to different one that outputs for the pressure gauge. There may have been a different type connection that need to be spliced for the pressure sensor, can't remember. Good luck.

[bikerjosh]

Quick question, as I get ready to swap out my cargo non-tach cluster with an LE one. The only connection I was scratching my head about is one labeled "IIA" integrated ignition assembly, I'm assuming this is the wiring coming from the distributer for the tach signal, but wanted to check before I tear into this?
thanks

edit: yes, IIA is the pin for tach siginsl wire.

[boogieman]

so, how many wires are we talking about? is this a full day job?

[Burntboot]

Its been a long time since I did mine but I remember it being a pita, mostly because nothing lined up with the manual and its REALLY hard to read the circuit board and I took my time and I never seem to be able to do just one thing straight thru without a distraction or 20.

I would think that a normal person could git er done in a couple/few hours though.

Maybe 1/2 doz wires need relocating and you gotta run a new wire to the dizzy.
Oh and then theres the new oil pressure sender in place of the OP switch and run another wire for that.

[boogieman]

started making diagrams to get this going but realized i may have an issue, my van is an 87 4x4 manual and the cluster is from an 89 2wd auto...question, do the speedos have the same ratio? i know ill lose my 4wd light, but thought maybe id wire it thru the o/d light..

[bikerjosh]

started making diagrams to get this going but realized i may have an issue, my van is an 87 4x4 manual and the cluster is from an 89 2wd auto...question, do the speedos have the same ratio? i know ill lose my 4wd light, but thought maybe id wire it thru the o/d light..

You shouldn't have any problem with the speedo. As far as hooking up the overdrive light to 4wd, that is a good id.

[boogieman]

so the speedos all have the same ratio? also, i dont have a IIA connection on my le LE cluster, im curious where its getting the tach signal, i do have an ig+ and ig-....oil pressure gauge will use same wire as idiot light, so no need to run another wire there..

[Burntboot]

I put an auto inst pack into my std and haven't noticed a difference, speedo is accurate with 205/70r15's

You have to run a wire from the dizzy to the pack for the tack signal. Its been a long time but I seem to remember having trouble finding IIA, I think it ended up being labelled differently on the circuit board, wish I could remember

That oil pressure gauge is not compatible with the non-LE sender, non-LE's use a common wire/idiot light for level and pressure and it is only looking for signal (on/off)
The proper LE style sender is required and a new wire too, as the gauge is looking for a range of signal.
The old wiring will still be utilized for the level sensor which now gets it's very own idiot light
I just taped off the old wiring at the sender, in case I ever need to swap it back.
BB

[bikerjosh]

Actually it isn't bad at all. Once you get the hang of releasing the clips that hold the individual wires in the harness plugs. I have a cross over diagram a made showing what wires move from which plug to the other plug. Used my 87' FSM and a little trial and error to make it. I did this from a 4wd cargo 5spd, with a clock cluster into a 4wd LE cluster from an auto van. Tach hook up is easy one new wire to run from engine to cluster.
After I made the swap, I found a 4wd 5spd LE cluster, that I have yet to swap in, so my LE 4wd autotrans cluster w/tach will be for sale soon.
I'll dig around for my chicken scratch diagram tonight when I get home.
Josh

[ShapeShifter]

Actually it isn't bad at all. Once you get the hang of releasing the clips that hold the individual wires in the harness plugs. I have a cross over diagram a made showing what wires move from which plug to the other plug. Used my 87' FSM and a little trial and error to make it. I did this from a 4wd cargo 5spd, with a clock cluster into a 4wd LE cluster from an auto van. Tach hook up is easy one new wire to run from engine to cluster.
After I made the swap, I found a 4wd 5spd LE cluster, that I have yet to swap in, so my LE 4wd autotrans cluster w/tach will be for sale soon.
I'll dig around for my chicken scratch diagram tonight when I get home.
Josh

Hi Josh, We recently chatted over on Expeditionportal.

I thought (for some reason) the stock tach worked from a cable. If its wired, that should easier. If you can share the crossover that diagram that would be really helpful! There is a cluster with a tach on ebay right now for $45 plus $21 shipping. Im not sure if that's a good deal or not.

[Burntboot]

SS - you have to be careful with a cross-over diagram, while it may well be just the ticket, it may also cause immense grief.

When I did mine I had several clusters on hand and no 2 clusters were identical.

Also be aware that the oil pressure/level circuits are different:
Clusters without a tach have 1 idiot light that is shared for both level and pressure
The pressure sender is basically on on/off switch

Tach clusters have the idiot light only for level, but have a gauge that displays pressure and requires a variable signal to accurately display.

Making it all work as the factory intended means installing the proper oil pressure sender and running a new wire up to the pack.
It isn't hard to do, and the sender is close to the distributor, where you will tag in for the RPM signal, so the 2 wires can be run at the same time.

[bikerjosh]

Is it a 4wd cluster, or having the 4wd light? Not sure I think I paid 35-40 from the PnP pin Stockton, CA for mine. I’ll have to look for the diagram tomorrow, sucked into yard work.

Hi Josh, We recently chatted over on Expeditionportal.

I thought (for some reason) the stock tach worked from a cable. If its wired, that should easier. If you can share the crossover that diagram that would be really helpful! There is a cluster with a tach on ebay right now for $45 plus $21 shipping. Im not sure if that's a good deal or not.

[bikerjosh]

Full disclosure I didn’t hook up the oil pressure gauge other than to the idiot light since I have aftermarket oil pres,water temp and volt digital gauges.
My oem oil temp gauge goes through random cycles from top of gauge to bottom periodically hanging out at one extreme or another. I think it might be reading biorhythms now.:roflmao:


SS - you have to be careful with a cross-over diagram, while it may well be just the ticket, it may also cause immense grief.

When I did mine I had several clusters on hand and no 2 clusters were identical.

Also be aware that the oil pressure/level circuits are different:
Clusters without a tach have 1 idiot light that is shared for both level and pressure
The pressure sender is basically on on/off switch

Tach clusters have the idiot light only for level, but have a gauge that displays pressure and requires a variable signal to accurately display.

Making it all work as the factory intended means installing the proper oil pressure sender and running a new wire up to the pack.
It isn't hard to do, and the sender is close to the distributor, where you will tag in for the RPM signal, so the 2 wires can be run at the same time.

[Burntboot]

I ended up using a cluster from an auto & 4WD van.

The auto cluster has a light for overdrive, another for trans temp, and I can't remember what other differences.
The wiring diagram in the manual didn't match up to any of the packs I had on hand, including the one it was born with and should be the same as my manual, but no.


With both packs in front of you, make a diagram of the connectors on the circuit board, every one is marked
It was a long time ago but I think in the end, I only moved 5 or 6 wires and all were long enough to reach their new locations.
BJ is right about releasing the locks, they are a pain but once past that hurdle its pretty straight forward.

I would assume that a 2wd pack would work, you just wouldn't have a 4WD indicator light (circuit).
And in that case, you might be able to repurpose another unused idiot light in the pack, to work in its place.
But I would resist the urge to make modifications before getting the rest of it sorted and functional.

Its really not hard to rig the O/P gauge and unless you have auxiliary gauges, I would highly recommend making sure to get that part sorted out.
I also really like the idea of the separated functionality, rather than having just one light for both level and pressure.

[bikerjosh]

Here is the diagram I PM'd you about. 7439

[ShapeShifter]

Here is the diagram I PM'd you about.

Hey thanks for posting this! I hope I can put it to use. I haven't looked yet but others have said it may be completely different from the two I have :cnfsd:

-

I'm a little discouraged but I guess this is how this van is going to be. The main reason I wanted to tear the dash apart was to get to the driver side washer nozzle that has broken off and squirts straight out in front of the van. Hilarious when parked at a cross-walk, but useless for the Colorado winter road spray.

I figured while Im taking the cluster out to reach the back of the nozzle, I would swap to a tach cluster. Well, the washer nozzle is hidden behind a secret, nearly inaccessible panel that looks like a major disassembly of the entire front end to get to. I am more than capable of doing this but is far more than I wanted to tackle.

To this Im sure someone will say, "Welcome to the van club". Id rather you hit me in the face with a bat.

[bikerjosh]

:dance2:yeah, I've read about the odyssey to get to the windshield sprayers. Reminds me of the times I was at junk yards and either saw 'hood won't open' sprayed on the front of the van or the front sheet metal cut out from someone trying to get a part from under the dash in about an 1/8th of the time.
Here are the two pages of my 87 service manual that I got the data from. I was going from 87 non-tach 4wd cluster to 87 tach 4wd cluster.7444
7445

[ShapeShifter]

Slowly getting to it. I have an 87 FSM , and an Electrical book too. Ill delve in to them once I get the washer thing fixed.

For fun, here are what I have: Top is '88 5 speed cargo 4WD, bottom is unknown cluster from ebay. Only listed with a range of years. It has a tach but no idea if it was manual, auto, LE, 2WD, etc.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/uBEL2k.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmuBEL2kj)

[bikerjosh]

If you take a pic of the fronts it should be pretty easy to tell AT/5spd 4wd vs 2wd etc-Josh

[ShapeShifter]

My '88 5 speed 4x4 is on the top. Mystery cluster on the bottom. Any ideas what it's out of? It looks alot like the one in the '87 FSM.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/9PGgbL.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn9PGgbLj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/xRoXWq.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnxRoXWqj)

[bikerjosh]

Lower one is from a 2wd AT equipped van, LE likely. IMO

[Burntboot]

If you really wanted to know what it is from, shine a flashlight into the idiot light holes and note what "warnings" are indicated.
But it really doesn't matter what its from and for what its worth, mine looked exactly like the manual too.
(automatics have an overdrive light, 4wd auto's have a trans temp light + O/D light, not sure what other differences there are)

That said, the only thing that matters is the icons on the printed circuit board, if you map the wires associated to the plugs, you will find out what wires have to move to new positions. Once that is done, clean the pack inside and out, replace all the bulbs and install.

[ShapeShifter]

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but its not working. As soon as I connect the battery, the check engine light comes on even without the key in. I also started the engine and the tach is no go. I ran the tach wire to the C-8 pin per manual, but the icon is not IIA, its IG-. I don't see an IIA icon on my new cluster.

I did everything slowly and carefully and double and triple checked everything. Any ideas?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/4rdQMv.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn4rdQMvj)
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/921/FWpU5y.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plFWpU5yj)
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/V5h2MQ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poV5h2MQj)
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/fyJv8s.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnfyJv8sj)

[Burntboot]

It's been a long time, but I remember similar issues.

For what its worth, I found some notes.
These were the changes to the harness plugs for the new pack:

A6 (Seat belt warning) From B6
A7 (Oil Press) New wire from New sender

B1 (water temp) From C8
B4 (charge) From B5
B5 (Ign) From B4
B7 (efi ecu) From B1
B8 (Dome) From B7

C3 (door courtesy) From B8
C4 (fuel warning) From C3
C5 (rad warn) From C9
C6 (gauge) From C7
C8 (IIA) New wire from dist
C9 (light rheostat) From C10

D1 (oil level) From B3

[ShapeShifter]

That's identical to what I have. sigh... I guess Ill check the wires again in the morning.

Do you also have the CEL light up on its own before you figured it out?

[Burntboot]

I didn't have any other issues, that I remember.

There was talk some time ago about diodes in the instrument pack and LE and DLX's are in different locations but I never had the issue so it may be pack dependant.
Can't find the thread I was thinking of, but this one covers it too, possibly worth looking into??

problem with warning lights at startup (https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2629-problem-with-warning-lights-at-startup)

[blakebecker37130]

I believe I sold this to you. My records show me shipping one recently to your town. It’s out of an 86Le 2WD.

7509

I believe this vin plate and the van year make and model was provided in the description.

[blakebecker37130]

Auto trans

[Krab Krust]

Just picked up an 87 4x4 auto LE cluster to go in to my 88 manual 4x4, forgot to grab the proper oil pressure sender off the LE motor and i am having trouble sourcing a new one. anybody have a part number or location where they bought a decent one? found one listed at napa for like $60 seems a lot for a small amenity
thanks

[Flecker]

Just picked up an 87 4x4 auto LE cluster to go in to my 88 manual 4x4, forgot to grab the proper oil pressure sender off the LE motor and i am having trouble sourcing a new one. anybody have a part number or location where they bought a decent one? found one listed at napa for like $60 seems a lot for a small amenity
thanks

If it's just the oil pressure sending unit, they can be had for less than 10 bucks. The AT/ Manual ones are the same I thought...

Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C81MRA/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Screws into the same boss near the dizzy on passenger side of engine.

[Krab Krust]

If it's just the oil pressure sending unit, they can be had for less than 10 bucks. The AT/ Manual ones are the same I thought...

Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C81MRA/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Screws into the same boss near the dizzy on passenger side of engine.


I need the one that's for the oil pressure gauge on an LE, I thought they look a bit different, larger and more round. the one on the LE van was much bigger diameter and so was the one on my truck when i switched to the sr5 gauges and had to swap from the dummy light sensor to one that actually read pressure. the picture is just an example of what my truck had with the dummy light and what i switched to to run the factory sr5 oil pressure gauge. Guess what i'm asking is are you sure that the one on amazon you sent the link for works for the LE oil pressure gauge?It says in the description its for automatic trannies. And you're right i'm not sure why there would be any difference in this part auto to manual. thanks for the reply Flecker



8533


Im also seeing sending units both being listed as working for the van that have two terminals and one, was under the impression it only had one?

85358536

[Burntboot]

You indeed need the larger unit, a sending unit, not a switch.
That link took me to PS-160 which is not the correct part for a gauge, though it would work fine for idiot light models.

It is a single pin unit and you will need to run a new wire from the new sender to the new pack

And yes, pressure sensors are significantly more expensive than pressure switches.

[boogieman]

1077210773

finally getting around to this swap, i have 87 4x4 manual cargo(no tach), swapping in 1987 4x4 manual not sure if it was LE or DLX...

i do not have IIA as others have noted on my tach cluster, but do have an IG- which does seem to go to the back of the tach. i guess i will try to take the wire from the distributor test port? to this but i dont want to fry the tach if this is wrong..theres also an orange single wire connector on back of tach cluster that im unsure of...could this be tach connection?
looking at the fsm, it seems the tach gets signal from ignitor?

ok, orange wire must be the different light style of oil level, it had a yellow/black wire going to it..this will get the 'oil w' connection as i think im going to T the sender outlet to include the idiot light as well as guage

[boogieman]

1077510776

well ok, that wasnt too bad and im stoked to have a tach!! so i T'd the pressure gauge sender and idiot light and plugged the old idiot light connection into the orange wire single connector to the oil level light so its still doing double duty as oil level and low pressure...

yes, IG- is the same as IIA

could probably tap into the ignitor for tach signal but i guess just as easy at the dizzy test port seeing as you have to run the wire for the oil pressure sender in the same area

there was a total of 10 swapped wires and a few other connections/splices

my notes..maybe could help someone...