Power steering system noise?

[timsrv]

For some unknown reason Toyota engineers decided to put a fine mesh screen inside the power steering reservoir. When the screen clogs up, as is common on a 20+ year old system, the result is cavitation at the power steering pump. Cavitation will make the pump noisy and / or the steering jerky............especially when the van is cold. The best way of fixing this is to flush the system, clean the filter, and put fresh fluid back into the system.

I'm not sure what the factory recommended procedure would be for this, but as long as you get the old out, clean the filter / screen inside the reservoir, and refill with new fluid you should be in good shape. I empty the system by pulling a pressure line from the rack, then start the motor and use the pump to spray it into a bucket or drip pan (warning this can be messy :shock: ). After it's all out, you may wish to put a quart of new fluid in the reservoir just to rinse things out. Leave your drip pan in place and let the new fluid puke out like you did with the old. Don't worry about letting the system run dry (it won't hurt anything).

The tough part in all of this is cleaning the screen /filter inside the PS reservoir. IMO Toyota was not thinking straight when they put that thing inside a reservoir that was not designed to be taken apart :cnfsd: . It can be taken apart and cleaned, but since it involves bending metal tabs, you're probably only going to get away with it once or twice before another reservoir would be needed.

Here are some pics of a reservoir I took apart for cleaning of the screen / filter.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/01-4.jpg


It's tough at 1st to unbend these tabs. I used a 90 deg scribe from the side to get them started. It takes some force and some patience, but once you get it to this point a large slot tip screwdriver will finish the job with ease.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/02-3.jpg


This particular reservoir came from a salvage yard and sat around dry for a while. Yours will probably look a little different inside.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/03-3.jpg

I used a big bucket and some mineral spirits paint thinner to clean. I poured the paint thinner in the bucket, then threw the parts in and sloshed it around. I took the parts out and blew dry with compressed air. I ended up putting the reservoir back in the solvent/thinner and I repeated rinsing/drying until I was satisfied with the results. That spot you see is a stain on the bottom of the reservoir (not junk on the screen).
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/04-3.jpg

Re-crimping the reservoir lid.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/05-3.jpg

All ready to be installed.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/06-2.jpg

When it comes to filling back up, Toyota calls for Dexron II (which is NLA), so Dexron III is the next best choice. Stay away form the newer Dexron fluids (like Dexron VI) as they are synthetic and may or may not be compatible. This is a recirculating system and is also self priming / self purging. This is nice because there is no need for any special care when refilling or servicing. Once the pressure line is hooked back up just start the engine and start filling the reservoir. The pump will suck the ATF easily. Pause every few moments and listen. When the pump stays quiet without you pouring, shut off the engine and top off using the dip stick inside the cap. Start the van again, turn your steering wheel from stop to stop (to get any errant air bubbles), shut off and recheck fluid level. Add more fluid if required and you're done!

If you are cheap and lazy, and only care about shutting up that noisy pump, an alternative way (short-cut) could be to forget about everything I just said and simply poke holes in the reservoir screen with a screw-driver :LOL2:. Of course this is defeating the purpose of the screen and you would be releasing all the grit previously captured back into the system. This method would also most likely shorten the life of your power steering system. Have fun. Tim

PS: Since you're servicing your power steering system anyhow, it might be a good idea to check the pump for leaks and repair (if required). Here's a couple of good threads on that:
http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?317-Power-Steering-Leak
http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?451-Power-steering-using-alot-of-fluid!
https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2607-Removing-power-steering-pump

[Flounder]

There seems to be a fair amount of room beside the PS reservoir. Wonder if it's possible to put an inline filter in the PS pump suction line? It's plenty long. Have to look at doing that...

[timsrv]

Just keep in mind that this is a suction line and any restriction here will make the pump more prone to cavitation. I think that's why they put it in the reservoir (the best location with most surface area for a screen). It's just too bad they didn't make it easy to access. I'm not saying an in-line filter wouldn't work, I'm just saying restrictions on suction lines are not good. Tim

[Cornato]

I think my pump is leaking and it's noisy as hell and a little jerky when cold. So I bought the seal rebuild kit from RockAuto like mentioned in another thread (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?317-Power-Steering-Leak). And am going to replace all the seals and clean out the screen and bleed it a few times.

If that doesn't fix it, then f*&k it. My first 2 Toyotas never had power steering. That's how I can crush pecans with my fingers. :lol:

Will update hopefully soon with progress.

[Spindrift]

I think I am going to try this. Where exactly is the hose you pull to drain? Not a 100% sure where the rack is. :dizzy:

[timsrv]

The rack is a few inches in front of the bottom of your radiator. These lines can get rusty and stuck so be sure to use a tubing wrench. If these lines are too rusted, rather than risk damage you may wish to forego the flush. The screen in the reservoir catches most of the particles anyhow, so just cleaning that should be good enough. Tim

[Spindrift]

I just realized I need to get that big expensive hose before I attempt this because I have a feeling mine will crumble.

Question: Is all ATF Dex II red in color? The reason is. My reservoir was really low so I put fluid in (ATF Dex II -red) and now when I check it it isn't so red. I think the stuff that was in there was brown because now I have redish goldenish brownish.

[timsrv]

Dexron II was red but is NLA. Dexron III supersedes Dexron II so use that. Anything running for 25+ years in a closed system will turn brown. A system flush is preferred but if you have stuck pipes on the rack I wouldn't worry about it...........just cleaning the filter should be good enough. Tim

[Spindrift]

Looks like some spam got in. Anyway it reminded me to follow up on my power steering noise. It turns out it was the alternator because when I replaced it the "power steering" noise magically went away.

[honeybadger]

Most high mileage vehicles seem to have a whiny power steering pump so maybe I should be used to it but it is highly annoying. Is there any way to get rid of the noise without a completely new power steering pump?

:silvervan::redvan::yellowvan::greenvan:

[foreverly]

It means you are not getting enough fluid to the pump either because

1. not enough fluid / you have a leak
2. a restriction in the system - a kink in a hose, dirty filter, a contaminated hydraulic system
3. air getting into the system - a hole in a return or reservoir hose allows air into the system.

With that said, I think the power steering systems on old Toyotas are a bit week. I've never had this level of power steering problems on any other vehicle I've driven.

[fuquan]

I think my pump is leaking and it's noisy as hell and a little jerky when cold. So I bought the seal rebuild kit from RockAuto like mentioned in another thread (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?317-Power-Steering-Leak). And am going to replace all the seals and clean out the screen and bleed it a few times.

If that doesn't fix it, then f*&k it. My first 2 Toyotas never had power steering. That's how I can crush pecans with my fingers. :lol:

Will update hopefully soon with progress.

I have thought about running my van without power steering so that I don't have to deal with the leak - just drain the system, pull the belt and be done with it - but the steering rod and U-Joints look pretty small to me. On previous vans those U-Joints have even had play in them. Any thoughts on how much stress manual steering would put on the 25+ y/o steering linkage parts?

[timsrv]

That's a good point. Running without power steering increases stress on the moving parts ahead of the rack. These vans aren't known for heavy duty parts here. In fact, there was a recall due to gearbox failures. That being said, I've run these without power steering before and things seemed solid enough, but that just was a temporary thing. It's conceivable that running that way long term could create a safety issue. Tim

[toytime]

In a previous post I reported the PS hose was dry rotted and broke off in my hands… so why not search the forum for tips and Timsrv had a great post filled with instructions on how to clean the screen in the PS reservoir Tim if you read this you were right on undoing the tabs will make you want to take the easy way out but I kept my patience and it was well worth it, the screen looked like it had coffee grounds embedded in it also I didn’t undo the pressure line at the rack but I did empty the system when I removed the reservoir I simply placed a small jug in its place and collected the goop there no wonder the PS pump wines the fluid is like loose mud….. the rest went just as you said I’m glad I didn’t resort to poking holes in the screen Thanks for sharing your technique. Ralph
18131814

[Burntboot]

I did this same thing a couple of years ago but when I looked at the lines at the rack there was no way in hell I was going to disturb that mess of rust and scale. I did flush the system but did it a little differently.

I took the feed hose to the reservoir and re-routed it into a large waste jug.
The suction hose got routed into a large jug with fresh fluid.
It was a little messy but worked well enough and saved the headache of messing with the hard lines.
BB

[timsrv]

I keep forgetting that some of these vans get messed up with rust here. They don't salt the roads here so my vans typically stay pristine in these spots. Tim

[Burntboot]

Sounds like paradise to me.
I can't imagine what it would be like to live in a place where things don't rust.

I live in a land where most cars do well to see their 10th birthday and 15 is considered "ancient".
I can count the number of pre `95 DD's around here, on one hand (and 3 of those are mine).
BB

[timsrv]

Most people around here dump cars after 10 - 15 years too, but it's not because of rust. Usually it's neglect or them just wanting something new. Like the 06 XB I checked out on Saturday. Had 95k miles on it & still the original coolant :dizzy:. I'm guessing the gear oil was original too. Tim

[Usaviator]

Im in a little bit of a bind here. This problem started out when I accidentally added oil to my power steering reservoir. Luckily, it didn't take much at all before it was topped off, and something raised a red flag in my head and checked the manual and UGGGH wrong one. I'm also lucky I never started the engine. I removed the reservoir, completely cleaned it out of all gunk. This actually turned into a good thing and now my reservoir and screen is nice and clean. However, I was reading about what kind of fluid to add to the reservoir. Tim, you recommended Dexron III, but this post was from 5 years ago. Now I guess you can't find Dexron III anymore (at least according to the guy I talked to at autozone). He did say that Dexron IV was in now and they make synthetic and mineral versions of it. My bind that I'm in now is that I need to get to work and this is my one and only vehicle. I am going to head to autozone and pick up the Dexron IV. You had mentioned to stay away from Dexron VI (6). Did you mean Dexron IV? Under the time limit I am currently under, I need to get something to put in there. The Dexron IV mineral seems like my best bet for now, so I'm going to add it. If you think its a bad idea though, I may end up draining the system and refilling it with something better. It can't hurt to flush it anyways eventually, but let me know if you have any input on this.

[timsrv]

If there is a Dexron IV, then I'm unaware of it's existence. Of course I buy in bulk and only buy every 5 years or so, so things could have changed. I am also unaware that Dexron III has been discontinued and seriously doubt that it has........but again, I could be wrong. Whatever you purchase, just make sure it's backwards compatible and will mix with Dexron II & III. Tim

[toytime]

I used DEX/MERC from Advanced Auto and it's working fine. Ralph






2482

[timsrv]

Yes, anything that says Dexron III compatible is good. I always feel better when it says Dexron II compatible too, but since Dexron III supersedes Dexron II, then I can accept it's worthiness :wnk: :wrthy:. Tim

[Usaviator]

Ok. I was a little confused at first with the roman numeral system. I know that VI means 6, but in the natural numeric order, I thought you were referring to 4 because it superceeded III. Funny enough, the guy at Autozone made the same mistake and said they only carry dexron 4, but when I got there, all they had was dexron VI. I figured out that it was exactly like you said - dexron VI. Anyways, enough of the numeric confusion.

What I bought was Autozone ATF Dexron VI (also says GM compatible) When you said it should be backwards compatible, I freaked out a little and hoped that a transmission flush wasn't something I had to now worry about, but I read the back and sure enough it says "This fluid is also suitable for use where Dexron II, Dexron III, JasoM315, Toyota WS or Toyota T-IV fluids are recommended."

Phew....

[Rufus]

I got about 550 miles into my first trip from Council Bluffs, IA back to Fort Worth and my power steering pump started whining. I figured that it was low on fluid so I pulled over and bought a quart of Dexron III to add. When I pulled the cover off of the access panel I saw that ATF was coming out of the reservoir all around the cap. The cap was tight so it was just blowing past the seal.
The pump itself was dry as a bone on the exterior and so I could only surmise that it had failed internally from sitting for so many years. I ordered a new pump and installed it in the van in the hotel parking lot last night. The new (remanufactured) pump from Autozone whined a bit and doesn't work properly. It feels as though I don't have any power steering at all. It doesnt whine and it runs quiet but it is still blowing ATF past the reservoir cap seal.
I did a search on the forum and about the only thing I could see was possibly the filter screen in the reservoir being clogged, however I would think that if it is blowing fluid back out the reservoir that it would push the stuff back up and out of the screen unless the fluid being pushed out is coming from above the screen already.
I have a 1900 mile trip ahead of me in a week and a half and I want to have this fixed before I go. Help?

New (remanufactured) pump
new belt
Fluid not flushed before installation
Reservoir not removed and cleaned out
43,000 miles (total) on van
Fluid blowing out of the top of the reservoir past the cap seal
No power steering felt at the steering wheel
pump not whining

[Rufus]

Can someone post a picture of where the drain on the rack is? I would like to get at it when I remove the reservoir this afternoon.

[timsrv]

I'm not aware of a drain, I always just took a line off it.

[Rufus]

Sounds good. So the line coming out of the bottom of the reservoir and going to the top of the pump is the low pressure inlet and the line with the banjo fitting at the bottom of the pump going to the rack and then back into the side of the reservoir is the high pressure return side, right? This would make sense if the screen were clogged. No ATF would be getting through the screen, and everything returning would be returning above the clogged screen and have nowhere to go but up through the cap. Sound logical?

[timsrv]

Yes, all you just said is correct. Of course I haven't seen it coming out the cap before. If the screen is clogged, there will be cavitation at the pump, so the volume it moves will be reduced to whatever can flow through the screen. Because return flow and output flow are matched, it shouldn't overflow unless it's overfilled..........although I suppose that's possible in some situations. A clogged screen & pump cavitation typically result in diminished/jerky performance when system is under demand (maneuvering in tight quarters) and the pump will make noise. Tim

[Rufus]

Problem solved. My troubleshooting worked.
Here was the problem:
The reservoir screen had become completely clogged from sitting for such a long time. It had a black, tar-like goop completely covering the screen of the reservoir. So the pump would attempt to draw fluid down from above the screen but could not due to the blockage. The return line was above the screen and was doing its job and returning fluid to the reservoir. Since the screen was blocked, fluid wouldn't go through it and adding fluid only made it overflow faster. This would cause it to vent out past the cap as that was the path of least resistance (thank God, better than the middle of the high pressure-return line) and wouldn't let the pump operate properly.
This is a very simple power steering system. The filter screen in the reservoir is truly the Achilles heel of the system. I think that Toyota expected people to occasionally remove the reservoir and flush it out, and that's why it is so easy to remove. I wasn't able to get the tabs pried back to remove the cover so I just bought some good chlorinated brake cleaner and filled the reservoir up, agitated it, scraped as much tar off of the screen as I could with a flathead screwdriver, and repeated the flush a few times until it was clean. I then let it dry, and ran a bunch of Dexron III through the reservoir to purge any remaining solvent out of it. Two 12mm bolts and two hose clamps and the reservoir comes out. Easy as pie.
I did all this in the hotel parking lot and the only casualty were a few white hotel towels. Real "field maintenance".
The power steering system now works properly and as intended.
Time to get the AC charged up (anybody know if shops still use R12?) and I will be ready for my road trip!

[timsrv]

Wow, I've never seen one clogged so thoroughly. Over the years I've had a few that started making noise, and that was my cue to clean that screen. So now we know the reservoir will overflow if the screen gets bad enough :)>:. That's awesome you got it fixed.

I'm sure there's still some shops that do R-12. I stocked up on that stuff a few years back. I also got a high end R-12 recovery/recycling machine when they were practically giving that stuff away, so I'm set for life. When I replaced the compressor on my van 2 years ago I was able to suck it all out, run it through my machine in the "recycle" mode, replace my compressor, then put it back in :thmbup:. Today we broke a temperature record (was over 80°) and I was cruising in style with my AC blasting :dance2:.

Next time I run that machine I'll have to takes some pics, perhaps a video, and make a thread. BTW, the experts say that converting over to the R134A is the best way to go, but I like my R-12 (too set in my ways to change now). Tim

[Oldskool1988]

Howdy everyone! Long time reader. First time poster. Proud owner of Luna Cos Mika, 1988 2wd
nice to meet ya'all.

Power steering pump overflowing:
Here is what is happening. When I turn the vehicle on there is a loud noise from the area of the power steering pump after letting it run for a couple minutes I turn the vehicle off, and the reservoir Starts permitting fluid to bubble out.
My apologies if this has already been covered, I tried to search but the service does not seem to work well with my iPhone. Thank you so much for your help

[Oldskool1988]

I was able to get the reservoir off, and indeed it was very mucked up. The problem now, is that the inner screen appears to have come loose and all but one tiny section. My next question is, if I put it back together with the screen as is, how long before terrible things happen? And if I need a new reservoir, do you know if they are still available? Thank you so much

[bwischhover]

I hate to bring this thread back from last year, but I think I am having this problem now with my 1987 2wd Van. Though I am more than happy to do the work, what is to prevent this from happening again down the line after I clean out the screen? With that in mind, is there any type of replacement reservoir that anyone has tried that works more efficiently/ doesn't have this problem?

[timsrv]

I've had this problem on 3 vans now, all with over 150k miles. Cleaning the screen took care of the issue on all 3. 2 of them don't get driven much, but the 3rd is my daily driver and I've driven it almost 100k miles since cleaning and the problem has yet not reoccurred (knock on wood). Keep in mind this is a closed/recirculating system, so unless you introduce foreign material when adding fluid, there's not really anything to clog the screen. As the system wears it will produce some debris, but unless you have a component failure, I think you're looking at 10+ years and over 100k miles before it should become an issue again. Tim

[spacecruisers]

I bet mine probably needs to be cleaned, it makes a whine on tight corners. Where is the screen located exactly? In the reservoir? Do you remove the reservoir to clean it? Thanks for the tips.

EDIT: I just saw there was a 1st page to this thread - cleaning the screen was literally the original topic! Now I feel like an idiot. Sorry guys! :doh:

[bwischhover]

I've had this problem on 3 vans now, all with over 150k miles. Cleaning the screen took care of the issue on all 3. 2 of them don't get driven much, but the 3rd is my daily driver and I've driven it almost 100k miles since cleaning and the problem has yet not reoccurred (knock on wood). Keep in mind this is a closed/recirculating system, so unless you introduce foreign material when adding fluid, there's not really anything to clog the screen. As the system wears it will produce some debris, but unless you have a component failure, I think you're looking at 10+ years and over 100k miles before it should become an issue again. Tim


Thanks for the insight Tim! I will update when I complete the work.

[Ace MM]

I will be the guinea pig for having no screen.
I think it was already damaged\gone.

I replaced the fluid. Was very dark.
Drain and repeated a week later.

Been a few months and no whining.

[delriotom]

You have a tremendous amount of information here that helps with other Toyota vehicles (not just vans,) notably: my 1993 Geo Prizm (Corolla clone) which has that stupid screen mesh at the bottom of the reservoir along with a diffuser. Since I have the mechanical aptitude of a German Shepherd, I have deferred all my maintenance to a capable mechanic just across the border in Acuna, Coahuila Mexico. Apparently, the Mexicans don't seem to have a clue about this screen mesh problem, and I was wondering if any of this information was available in Spanish. All the Spanish language videos that I have been able to find deal with flushing the fluid properly, but remain mute about cleaning the screens. I've tried to tell this guy, but I had to threaten to get another mechanic until I finally got his attention. Any Hispanics out there? I would appreciate any help. Muchas gracias por ustedes ayudos. (And I apologize if I screwed that up, my Spanish is only slightly better than my mechanical aptitude.)

[Tan Van]

Yes, all you just said is correct. Of course I haven't seen it coming out the cap before. ... ... Because return flow and output flow are matched, it shouldn't overflow unless it's overfilled.... .....although I suppose that's possible in some situations. . Tim

well, I've seen it now... ...Wednesday night, I pushed a little bit sideways on the (molded) steering-fluid return hose, so I could check my engine oil ... ... Started it up yesterday morning, and, I noticed some steering-pump noises, so, I shut it down to look around. It turns out the garage floor has a red puddle of steering fluid. I examined the van for the source of the leak and found 2 wet areas.

Firstly, it was a bit wet where I found a sneaky crack in the underside of the factory return-hose...(a dry + weak spot in the old hose that finally let go after being shoved out of the way for 31 years to permit easier access to the engine-oil dipstick)

Secondly, the whole reservoir was soaked. And, the reservoir was topped out, "bubbly", and had obviously been blowing out through the closed steering fluid cap !!!

My thought is that, the crack in the return hose may have been pulling air into the system and, the pressure of being "over-filled" (because of the extra air), causes it to blow out of the cap.

So, one thing to check if you ever find your reservoir filled to the top and overflowing from the cap is the airtight condition of your return lines.


Solution: new return line for power steering fluid.



https://parts.evanstoyota.com/images/parts/toyotaOEM/parts/fullsize/A1_MCE051_44348A.png

Part Number: 4434828040


didn't feel like waiting for the part, so, of couse I used "gates" bulk 5/8" hose---
didn't like the way bulk hose wanted to route itself, so, I made this too--

6954

[timsrv]

Yes, the pump sucked air, whipped it into the oil, compressed it, then it expanded when it came back to the reservoir. Result = messy overflow. Keep in mind there are different grades of hose. Some are intended for hot antifreeze and some are intended for hot oil. If you used heater hose for this it may or may not hold up. Always best to use the stuff that's made to do the job. The good news is there is only low pressure/low stress on this particular hose. Very creative with the copper BTW :wnk:. Tim

[Burntboot]

TV - Have you cleaned the screen in the reservoir?

What Tim says is true but if the screen is plugged, it will also cause the reservoir to be soaked.
I get the impression that you have linked the leak to the wet reservoir.

I have only seen 2 conditions where the cap has leaked while having an intact seal, when the screen is plugged or when the system is severely overfull.

[originalkwyjibo]

Just to clarify, the hose you are referring too is NOT the return hose but the suction hose to the pump. When you moved the hose to check the oil it likely cracked as you've already figured out. The crack in the hose would allow the pump to suck more air rather then fluid from the reservoir causing the fluid to be bubbly from the air now being introduced. Meanwhile, all the fluid in the system got returned to the reservoir from the pressure of the pump(Whether fluid or air pressure or likely in your case both.)pushing through the system where, combined with the increased volume of the bubbles, would have caused your overflow. Also, like Tim said, make sure you use the proper oil rated hose as transmission fluid in particular will quickly degrade coolant hose.

[Tan Van]

Yup... you're right on... of course, it is a suction hose !!! that explains the air !! (I called it a "return hose" simply because I was too lazy to think it through) . The Toyota molded hose is about $107.00 and it is in the plan to buy it within 6-12 months; i just bought the 2 molded PCV + valve cover hoses from Toyota and they fit great, so, once I recover financially from that, I'll get the steering hose... I should be fine till then..

the rubber seal in the cap of the reservoir won't hold any real pressure... its basically there to stop "splash" from oozing out...

The copper pipe will work for now, and it would have been permanent on my old '86, but, this '87 is too nice to leave like that

Also, Tim would have no respect for my van if I left it that way permanently.:nono:

(ps- the screen is basically clean)

[jdweasel47]

Two months ago, I replaced some very worn original front suspension parts, 30+ years old on a 87 2wd Van, the front was super loose. The new inner/outer tie rods, upper/lower ball joints, 2 new upper a-arms, 1 new lower, and a new bushing in the other lower arm. New shocks last year too. Well-----the ride and change was amazingly good, no noises, super tight feel. Now, the rack and pinion has literally exploded out both ends, the inner tie rods boots are filled with fluid and leaking out profusely. I ordered a rebuilt rack and pulled the power steering belt until it comes in, my van is my DD. My theory, all new parts and the resulting firmness was more than the old rack could handle! The 1/4" of movement in every direction of the old parts kept the old rack seals alive, new parts literally killed it!

[fastcanoe]

89 TV. 152k

HELP!

OK, so I opened up the PS reservoir and took a flat head and scrapped the gunk from the screen after my PS was making increasingly more and more noise. The last time this was done it helped settle the noise tremendously. So I scraped out a bunch of gunk, checked my levels and took it for a drive. It seemed to be better.

Then the following morning I started er up and Noise-City! Whiny cranky noises, worse than before. I shut it down, opened the hatch and there was fluid everywhere. I cleaned it up and discovered the lid seemed to not be sealed if I had turned it all the way CC and had leaked out the top. So I backed it off a little bit to where it felt the most snug. This was after I topped off the level with fluid (DEX III Equivalent) again. Started it up and it seemed better. Drove to work where it sat for about 12 hours. Started it up that night and it was fine.

This morning, I started it up and again it was loud and cranky, whining super bad. However this morning I did not have an opportunity so look what was going on and drove to work (was running a little late). By the time I got off the bridge and was driving through town, I realized I had pretty much lost most of my power steering. I could smell some fluid leaking and when I parked, I sure enough it was leaking.

I haven't opened it up yet. What could be going on?? I felt confident the lid was on snug and the fluid level was correct, if not on the less side of full.

Any suggestions as to whats going on? Did I clog a line when I cleared out the gunk? Did I just fry my PS pump?

Thanks in advance.

[timsrv]

These pumps are tough/resilient, so I doubt there's any issues there. I think the problem is you "scraping" may have forced some of the particles into the screen which resulted in more thoroughly clogging it. There's really no substitute for removing and cleaning as described earlier in this thread.

Since it's a recirculating system, fluid needs to flow at equal volumes throughout the system. If the screen is plugged, returning fluid will not be able to flow to the pump at an equal rate, and will be forced out of the "vented" fill cap. If the pump cannot get enough fluid it will cavitate and make noise. The problem is exasperated when the fluid is cold because the viscosity is thicker under those conditions. You need to thoroughly clean the screen with solvent then blow it out with air. Considering the "gunk", I would also recommend draining/flushing the system and refilling with new Dexron III ATF. Good luck. Tim

[fastcanoe]

These pumps are tough/resilient, so I doubt there's any issues there. I think the problem is you "scraping" may have forced some of the particles into the screen which resulted in more thoroughly clogging it. There's really no substitute for removing and cleaning as described earlier in this thread.

Since it's a recirculating system, fluid needs to flow at equal volumes throughout the system. If the screen is plugged, returning fluid will not be able to flow to the pump at an equal rate, and will be forced out of the "vented" fill cap. If the pump cannot get enough fluid it will cavitate and make noise. The problem is exasperated when the fluid is cold because the viscosity is thicker under those conditions. You need to thoroughly clean the screen with solvent then blow it out with air. Considering the "gunk", I would also recommend draining/flushing the system and refilling with new Dexron III ATF. Good luck. Tim


Thanks Tim. If I drive it home tonight (about 10 miles - half freeway/half city) will i do any (more) damage or will I be OK?

[timsrv]

These pumps are resilient. I had a big leak from a pressure hose once. I was lazy and drove for almost a year with no power steering. I didn't bother removing the belt & just let the pump run dry :dizzy:. When I finally fixed the leak and filled it up everything was good again. I continued using that pump for several more years/miles without issue :wnk:. Tim

[timsrv]

For what it's worth, I'm more concerned with the "gunk". This makes me think the system was contaminated at some point. Perhaps somebody put synthetic and/or some non-compatible fluid in there. Gunk can be the result of incompatible fluids trying to mix.

[Tan Van]

"it's usually a good idea to listen to Tim"...

only 4 weeks after using the 5/8" hose that I had lying around, the hose was starting to fail. Clearly it was heater hose. The entire length and circumference of all the rubber was glistening; completely wet with steering fluid. It was weeping right through the entire hose. Wouldn't have been much longer for complete melt-down. Solved with NAPA Power Steering hose. Still tight and dry as a bone.

I have to admit that when I first read Tim recommending the correct type of hose, that I thought it was just a "Tim-technicality" and I would be fine for at least a year. Guess not.

[timsrv]

"it's usually a good idea to listen to Tim".......

:D Sorry to hear about that hose failing, but I can never get enough of that statement :rol: :wave2:

[fastcanoe]

For what it's worth, I'm more concerned with the "gunk". This makes me think the system was contaminated at some point. Perhaps somebody put synthetic and/or some non-compatible fluid in there. Gunk can be the result of incompatible fluids trying to mix.

It was pretty caked. As satisfying as it was to scrape around down in there and pull up scoop after scoop of sludgy gunk, I did begin to wonder if this was just 28 years of residual build up or if something else had happened. I guess I have a weekend project ahead of me.

Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated.

-Terry

[fastcanoe]

It was pretty caked. As satisfying as it was to scrape around down in there and pull up scoop after scoop of sludgy gunk, I did begin to wonder if this was just 28 years of residual build up or if something else had happened. I guess I have a weekend project ahead of me.

Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated.

-Terry

Update on this I didn't end up taking it all apart. I let it settle for a few days and scooped out some more gunk and debris. Topped it off and it's been fine.

[spacelegovan]

Thanx for posting this Tim, My van's ps pump is whinning and needs some tlc, this will really come in handy !!:greenvan:

[bunzeyz08]

I've had this problem on 3 vans now, all with over 150k miles. Cleaning the screen took care of the issue on all 3. 2 of them don't get driven much, but the 3rd is my daily driver and I've driven it almost 100k miles since cleaning and the problem has yet not reoccurred (knock on wood). Keep in mind this is a closed/recirculating system, so unless you introduce foreign material when adding fluid, there's not really anything to clog the screen. As the system wears it will produce some debris, but unless you have a component failure, I think you're looking at 10+ years and over 100k miles before it should become an issue again. Tim

I recently experienced the whiny power steering problem as well. I was on a the way home from a road trip and after reading this thread figured it would be OK if I got it home and addressed the cavitation problem. Once I arrived home the power steering wasn't working at all AND there was no longer a cavitation noise. Have you heard of or experienced this at all? I still need to take everything apart and clean the reservoir but was curious if that would be more indicative of a PS pump problem rather than a reservoir screen clog issue.

Thanks!

[Burntboot]

Without a hands in inspection its rather hard to speculate, but...

If it was whining, then it stopped making noise and you lost power assist, you likely have a leak and lost all the fluid.
Time to open the hood and take a good look around and report back with your findings

[bushcat]

I'm about to finish this task of cleaning out the screen and I will post the results here when I'm done. I had one question in the meantime. Instead of using the rack that's brittle near the radiator to flush, can I just put the two hoses that connect to the reservoir in a bag and start the engine and drain that way? It's not a low point but it would help get more out than what's in there now.

[timsrv]

Yes, However you deem appropriate for your van. I have the good fortune to live in a place that does not salt the roads, so removal of a rack fitting is typically easy for me. If yours is rusted, you don't have the proper flare wrenches, and/or there's any other reason you don't want to chance damaging, then do whatever you see fit. It's not that important how you remove the old fluid, it's just good to flush and replace every few hundred thousand miles. IMO, if it's dirty enough to clog the screen, then it's worth flushing. Tim

[bushcat]

Wahoo!

So I flushed the system using the hoses that connect to the reservoir. I'm not sure if I was able to get everything out but I got more out than just cleaning the reservoir. It was messy and if I were to do it again, I would have used a bottle on both the lines. The noise is gone! And boy was that noise loud before I did the cleaning, flush and refill. Really excited how much of a difference this made to the steering and noise and how easy this was to do.

I started using a flat head on the screen, don't do that! I quickly stopped and switched to an electric toothbrush, it worked really well.

Here is a picture before:
8133
8134
And After:
8135
8136

[JDM VANMAN]

Wow!!! Look s like getting a SonicCare for the tool box is in order!:thmbup:

Nice job and thank you for posting the before and after photos!

JDM

[iq_artwork]

Hello everyone,

So I'm getting some noises when Im turning my steering wheel and there is a small small leak at the top of the pump. I'm planning to clean my PS reservoir / screen and change my o-ring. I have a question please and I'm adding some pictures here as well. Is my "pressure line from the rack" like Tim mentioned in his first post, where i have cycle it with green in my picture?

Thank you very much!

991499169915

[iq_artwork]

Hello everyone!!


I was able to drain my old fluid (and it was yellow dirty dark, I think my old mechanic added dot 3 or something else). Then I cleaned my PS reservoir and changed the small hose connected to it. Flushed it with a ATF DEX-III/MERCON and filled it with a clean one again. So after that my PS pump sound really weird..


Any help will be more than appreciated, thank you

[Burntboot]

Being yellow it was likely (hopefully) Power Steering Fluid
When you cleaned the reservoir, what did the screen look like and did you clean it too?

"sound really weird" is a little too broad, could you narrow it down a bit (grinding, sucking air, howling, squealing .....)
If you can't describe it adequately, perhaps post a video?

[iq_artwork]

Burntboot thank you for your quick reply,

When I removed my PS reservoir it's was really dirty, I used a Paint Thinner with a toothbrush to clean it. When I opened the cap, the screen was broken in half and I took it off so I can clean everything inside as well. I noticed for '84 Vans the screen is one part with the reservoir and not 2 different parts like I saw some pics here.

I couldn't find the way to upload a video here, but I'm adding a link with the noise. Attached some pics
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpvoizxredy2t4g/IMG_0098.MOV?dl=0


Thank you!

9936 9937 9938 9939

[Burntboot]

FYI - Your reservoir looks the same as the later ones and neither are intended to come apart.

The "lid" is held on with metal tabs bent under, unbending the tabs is all thats required to separate the housing and access the screen.

[iq_artwork]

Burnboot, yes I removed the cap with a screwdriver and I cleaned the inside of my reservoir as well. I noticed with my PS reservoir, the screen was connected around the metal and it wasn’t 2 different parts like pics I have seen here, also it was broken in half. So I decided to take the screen off and cleaned the bottom of the reservoir..
Now I’m looking for a new reservoir with screen or keep my fluid clean by flushing the system more often.. unfortunately I didn’t take a pic with my screen broken.

[stolz]

Hey guys,

I've been having some power steering issues lately but a few months ago I read this thread and cleaned out my power steering reservoir and it fixed the issue.

I then started to have intermittent issues again, every once in a while it would go out for a few hours at a time or days. Driving on bumpy dirt roads would usually fix this, confusing right.

So I pulled the reservoir again today and it was dirty again so I cleaned it out.

I flushed out all the old fluid as I was running normal power steering fluid in it and filled it with Dexron III and now it's making this noise and no power steering is evident.

So my questions are:

What do you guys think the sound is, sounds like an air leak of some sort or a suction problem?

Should I be able to even have the reservoir cap off and the liquid so calm like this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1DzQ7QoxUo

[timsrv]

Yes, there should be movement of the PS fluid & for whatever reason yours is not moving. Possible causes could be a clog or severe restriction somewhere else in the system. The reservoir screen is the most common, but if you already checked/cleaned that then it's gotta be something else. It's possible the pump has failed, but IMO I don't think that's very likely. Check the hose that goes from the reservoir to the pump to make sure it's not kinked. I would also make sure it's rated for hydraulic fluid/oil (not regular heater hose). If it's not rated for hydraulic fluid/oil, then it's possible it's breaking down. Since it's a suction hose it's also possible the interior may have collapsed and is blocking flow. I'd also check all the metal lines down at the rack to make sure nothing shows physical damage (like bottoming out on a rock or something and crushing one of those). If it's not the reservoir screen and it's not the hoses/lines, then that only leaves the pump and the rack. Hopefully it's not one of those. Tim

[stolz]

Hey Tim,

Thanks for the response. I drove around for a few days and it started working again, so I pulled the reservoir for a third time and it had some more gunk in it.

I cleaned it out and now it's working perfect and the fluids flowing much faster, seems like it needed to be flushed through to get all the old gunk and fluid out and now it's happy with Dexron III.

[stolz]

Alright so I’m having power steering issues again, but now that I looked up the part number of the hose going to the power steering reservoir the hose they gave me at the local auto shop is rated as a fuel line and not a hydraulic line, maybe that’s the issue now?

[Diy2k]

Reserve-pump hose doesn’t need to be anything fancy since it holds no pressure.

[timsrv]

Pressure ratings are not that important, but it does need to be rated for the type of fluid it carries. If it can handle fuel, I suspect it can also handle Dexron ATF fluid, but I would want to be sure. FYI, never use heater hose here. Tim

[JDM VANMAN]

The power steering return hose started leaking as well the hose was replaced, new O-ring, new fluid and cleanup.


https://i.imgur.com/dPTvpZu.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/XTymJbe.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/Zrp8EIh.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/3Xqh5N0.jpg


This is the OEM original hose, it was as hard as a rock with no flexibility, it was so hard I broke it over my knee like a stick.


https://i.imgur.com/YkEUSPt.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/S2ZdZhH.jpg


Hose clamp embedded into the hose-


https://i.imgur.com/iHPPhJt.jpg

JDM

[Warhound_Titan]

Hey, gang! Its been a long time but I'm finally working on my '89 4wd again.

Sometime last year I disassembled my power steering reservoir to help with some intermittent whining and loss of steering.
This did help tremendously however I did notice at times when the van was idling the ps-pulley would seize up, so I decided to replace the pump itself.

Fast-forward a year and I finally got the pump switched out and the lines flushed with new Dex-III!
I've spent HOURS bleeding my steering system to get any air out (I installed a temporary clear tube so I could watch the AFT fluid as it cleared)
I've inspected the lines and nothing is obviously kinked or has failed and the new pump isn't leaking anywhere and there is no noise.
When the wheels are off the ground the wheel turns buttery-smooth but when I've got wheels touching there is a ton of resistance in the system.
I've got the reservoir filled to appropriate levels but I have noticed that the reservoir fills faster than it empties.

The ps pump was a remanufacture and I'm beginning to think that its a dud. At least that's what I'm hoping for at this point!

Before I go ripping it out again I've got some suspicions...

1) the inside of one of the lines has collapsed. I haven't replaced them so as far as I know they are OE and maybe are restricting flow or letting air into the system.
2) I really botched the pump install and maybe ruined the banjo fitting? Doesn't seem likely..
or 3) I need a rack-rebuild :(

Anything you could offer at this point would be so appreciated!

[Burntboot]

WT -Sorry to hear of your troubles.
I am confused by a few things you stated:

"I did notice at times when the van was idling the ps-pulley would seize up, so I decided to replace the pump itself."
-So, if the idler pulley was seizing, did you replace it too when you did the pump?

"I've spent HOURS bleeding my steering system to get any air out (I installed a temporary clear tube so I could watch the AFT fluid as it cleared)
I've inspected the lines and nothing is obviously kinked or has failed and the new pump isn't leaking anywhere and there is no noise.
When the wheels are off the ground the wheel turns buttery-smooth but when I've got wheels touching there is a ton of resistance in the system.
I've got the reservoir filled to appropriate levels but I have noticed that the reservoir fills faster than it empties."

So you have fluid flowing thru the system? (as seen by the bubbles in the clear tube)?
If the reservoir is filling faster than its emptying, does that mean it's pushing fluid out of the reservoir cap?

For starters you need to verify if the pump is building pressure.
Place key in ignition to disable steering lock and try to turn the steering wheel with the engine off and not how much effort it takes.
Now start the truck and turn the wheel again, if its significantly easier, then the pump is working.

You did mention that all works well when its jacked up.
That is totally normal as there is no load on anything but it is important to make sure that you don't have another problem hiding.

It is possible to have a a ball joint be seized in its compressed position but appear to be fine when unloaded.
I have only seen it once but it sure was a lot of fun to diagnose.
You need to have it jacked up but with the weight of the van on the suspension (stands under front control arms near as possible to the wheels)
(doing all 4 would get the truck level and closer to emulating "normal" loading condition) and recheck to see if it all moves free.

[Warhound_Titan]

Hey, Burntboot

Thanks for the response. To answer your questions...

The idler pulley was not what was seized. WHILE idling the pulley on the pump-shaft would seize up which is why I chose to replace the PS-Pump itself.

Correct, I do have fluid moving throughout the system, however it doesn't feel like any pressure is being produced. The reservoir is filling faster than its emptying and if I try to turn the wheel too fast the reservoir will overflow.

It doesn't seem like the pump is producing any pressure comparing when I turn the steering wheel when the van is off vs on.

Thank you for the suggustion that it could be a ball joint. I'll see what I can see. It sure would be nice if the 4wd vans still had control arms or ball joints available!

Hope that cleared some stuff up!
Cheers.

[Burntboot]

If you aren't noticing significant difference in steering resistance with engine on or off you definitely have a problem with the power steering.
No need to chase front end stuff, other than for peace of mind.

What kind of hose do you have between the reservoir and the pump? And what is its condition?

[Ian R.]

Anyone ever have power steering system making a rattling/loud ticking ( almost like a stuck lifter) type noise? Mine has had this noise ever since I owned the van. A little background, the PS fluid is full with Dex III, I have changed the idler pulley, and tried different tensions on the PS belt. I know it is the PS cause I have taken of the belt and ran the motor and the rattle goes away. Maybe the belt was tensioned to much for to long and wore out the PS pump bearings? Curious to hear if anyone has had this problem and resolved it by replacing the pump?

[Ian R.]

Well I took a closer look at the PS pump. I found that there is a dent in the PS pump pulley v-groove. This dent makes a bump where the belt slots into the pulley. I think the noise that I am hearing is chatter from the belt tracking over the dent in the pulley. A new pulley is 170$ uggh! There is a van at a salvage yard near me, but they won’t sell the pulley alone and want 120.00 for the pulley and pump.

[originalkwyjibo]

Can you file/sand out the dent? Just make sure there are no sharp edges.

[Ian R.]

I had not thought of that! I ended up buying a new one. It came in today, hope it works!

[originalkwyjibo]

Dang. I sharpen things with files and grinding wheels for work so my brain automatically goes to "Can I fix it?" on those types of things first.

[Ian R.]

Well to be honest I thought about hammering it out. But that usually does not end well.:roflmao:

[Ian R.]

Well I took a closer look at the PS pump. I found that there is a dent in the PS pump pulley v-groove. This dent makes a bump where the belt slots into the pulley. I think the noise that I am hearing is chatter from the belt tracking over the dent in the pulley. A new pulley is 170$ uggh! There is a van at a salvage yard near me, but they won’t sell the pulley alone and want 120.00 for the pulley and pump.

The new pulley resolved the noise. Wow what a difference! While I was at it I replaced the PS return hose with 19/32 PCV hose and took apart the reservoir and cleaned the screen. After I was finished the PS pump was making a terrible noise and found out that I had foamed the ATF fluid. I ended up needing to go through the process of removing the air in the lines. The manual describes the method pretty well. It took starting and stopping the motor 10 times to get most of it out. It took about 2 extra quarts of ATF fluid to complete this process. I think STP ATF fluid STPDEXMERC1Q is a good product to use when looking for a substitute for DEX II. It says suitable for applications where DEX II and III are called for.