A/C, power steering, and fan (water pump/alternator) belts

[toytime]

Hi. Hope you can help me out, I'm looking at a 1987 cargo van the current owner removed the power steering pump when a friend told him he didn't need it, the van is listed with that note and also the A/C doesn't work. I stopped to look the van over it has a bit of rust and the windshield needs to be replaced which is no big deal, but I noticed there is a belt missing where the PS pump was located does this belt also run the A/C, if so will I have to replace the PS pump, can I just get a smaller size belt to test it out or will I have to mount an idler pulley to test out the A/C. Also the engine sounds really good it has 170,000 on it just broken in. Thanks for any insight you may have.

[Burntboot]

AC and PWR STR are 2 different belts running parallel to each other, no way to make one work off the other.
Both have idler pullers which are notorious for failing but at least are easily replaced.

If they deleted power steering it is most likely because the pump was leaking and it was easier to delete than spend the money to fix it properly.
Besides it spares the alternator from getting a constant bath in Str fluid (when the pump is leaking)

If you buy the van I would hook up belts to both systems, replace whats broken and live happily ever after.
BB

[timsrv]

On the vans with all power options there are 3 belts. The serpentine belt runs the water pump & alternator, the power steering belt runs only the power steering, and the AC belt runs only the AC. Many of us have run without power steering for short periods of time, and I'm sure some have driven long term without. Personally I find the van much more fun to drive with PS, so I keep mine in good repair. Another reason to fix the power steering is the bevel gear. The steering on these vans passes through a bevel gear. These aren't the strongest and have been known to fail (there was actually a recall on these). Running without power assist greatly increases the load on the bevel gear & could lead to early failure. Tim

[robgagnon]

I read this thread, and look under the car and my AC compressor pulley perfectly lines up with my power steering pump belt. As if I got a larger belt it could run the compressor and the power steering. What am I missing here? There are only two pulleys on the crank: the flat belt and the v belt. This van is a basket case project, so the parts came from here, and there, but the AC compressor was still connected to the car, tied back, and hopefully still charged.

Thanks.

[robgagnon]

Nevermind! I found a photo of the pulley in another thread. My "AC" crank pulley is driving the power steering pump. There are not three pulleys so I suppose this engine came from a non-AC donor.

[beatnick]

Hi, I'm new here, but I just bought a 1986 cargo van and the previous owner drove without power steering because the belts kept snapping on him. The pulley system (the one that isn't the pump) is very tight and doesn't turn by hand easily. My question is, is this something that can be loosened to give it some play? And does anyone know the part # for the belt itself?

Thanks guys!

-Nick

[beatnick]

OK, so I got the new belt from Autozone. The problem is that it is too big for the pulley system, or I just can't figure out where the additional pulley is. All I see for the power steering system is two wheels. The other track I found is for the A/C system and that belt is also missing. I bought this van two weeks ago and I'll be honest, it's in rough shape. But the main issues to keep it going are the power steering system and from what I can tell, the ECU temp sensor. Due to what I could find on the forum with similar posts, its idle from cold start and even warm idle will kill it. I've found that it's either the ECU temp sensor or the Bimetal Vacuum Switching Valve. Does the power steering system only have the two pulley wheels? And what's the easiest way to loosen the ECU temp sensor with limited tools and not taking apart too many things?

Thanks

[timsrv]

Sounds like it's missing the idler pulley. There's a 3rd pulley (small one) just inboard of the PS pulley. It's got a vertical bolt w/12 mm hex head for adjusting belt tension. The 14 mm hex head bolt in the center of the pulley is to lock it in place once it's adjusted. If you're missing this pulley and/or it's mounting bracket, the best thing to do would be to find a van in a salvage yard and take these parts. Toyota may still stock these, but they will likely charge $250 or so. A salvage yard would likely charge $15 or so. If you go this route, there's a little bearing inside the pulley that should be replaced. The part number is 6302-2RS and is easy to find for cheap: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=6302-2RS&_sop=15

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/86%20LE%20rebuild/190519fb-0ab9-48e7-9362-01cec2ba26d1_zpsz4pxjvqt.jpg

[beatnick]

I have the idler pulley that is circled in your picture. What else does it run off of? I may be missing that part There is an area that the belt goes down further that I can't seem to find.

[timsrv]

It's powered off the main crankshaft pulley's outermost belt groove. In the picture below, the PS belt is installed. These are the 3 pulleys it needs to be on:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/86%20LE%20rebuild/IMG_3321_zpscdaeddcf.jpg

[beatnick]

Thanks Tim! That helps a great deal. And of course, another problem arose. Now it won't start. My guess this time would be fuel injectors having too much moisture or condensation. It'll try to turn over with nothing getting to the engine. Gotta love troubleshooting, right?

Nick

[Canoed_son]

Hello Tim,

Glad I was able to locate this thread, as it pertains to the issue I'm dealing with. The small idler pulley you mention here broke off from the engine block of my 85 van. I am having trouble locating the part (bracket) and was wondering where to look? I also wanted to ask your opinion on what you think might have caused this? I will include a picture below. I really am puzzled at what couldve even caused this break...I have driven over bumps/pot holes since i've owned it but nothing major. I would appreciate any input you can provide! Thank you

3990


It's powered off the main crankshaft pulley's outermost belt groove. In the picture below, the PS belt is installed. These are the 3 pulleys it needs to be on:

[timsrv]

Things just fatigue over time, and I'm guessing it's original (32 years old). Who knows how many belts were over tightened, or how many ignorant diy'ers pried on it, hit it with a hammer, etc. If it's still available through Toyota, I'm guessing they'll want $250 for it. These type parts are what salvage yards are the best for (assuming you can find one). You might also check the classified section of the forum and PM some of the guys selling parts there. Chances are good somebody will have one. Tim

[timsrv]

I just looked this up in the EPC for you. Assuming it's the one for the power steering, it's Toyota part #44350-28011. The bad news is it was only used on Toyota vans and the Hilux, but the not so bad news is it was used on every van from 84 - 89. The really bad news is they think it's worth $293.93 :roflmao:. If available, some of those discount Toyota parts sites would sell for around $220, but IMO a part like this over $75 means "unavailable". I think your best bet is to find a used one somewhere. Salvage yards will sell parts like this for ~$15. Even if it has a bad bearing, these can be had on eBay for ~$5.


It's a cheap and common garden-variety bearing that's used on everything. The part number is 6302-2RS. CLICK HERE (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=6302-2rs+bearing&_sacat=0) to check out how many are listed on eBay at any given time. Tim

[Canoed_son]

Tim,

Thank you SO much for the info! Not terribly surprised about the cost...Looks like I will be scavenging through some salvage yards in the Portland area (considering I'm pretty tight on $ at the moment). Would you recommend having a mechanic do this job? I'm worried about how much it might hurt my wallet... If possible, i'd like to do it myself but I assume the engine is probably gonna need to be taken out...thoughts?



I just looked this up in the EPC for you. Assuming it's the one for the power steering, it's Toyota part #44350-28011. The bad news is it was only used on Toyota vans and the Hilux, but the not so bad news is it was used on every van from 84 - 89. The really bad news is they think it's worth $293.93 :roflmao:. If available, some of those discount Toyota parts sites would sell for around $220, but IMO a part like this over $75 means "unavailable". I think your best bet is to find a used one somewhere. Salvage yards will sell parts like this for ~$15. Even if it has a bad bearing, these can be had on eBay for ~$5.

[timsrv]

Tim,

Thank you SO much for the info! Not terribly surprised about the cost...Looks like I will be scavenging through some salvage yards in the Portland area (considering I'm pretty tight on $ at the moment). Would you recommend having a mechanic do this job? I'm worried about how much it might hurt my wallet... If possible, i'd like to do it myself but I assume the engine is probably gonna need to be taken out...thoughts?

Oh no, this is a basic job. Engine definitely will not need to be taken out. You might be able to do the job from the driver's side compartment, but personally I think it would be easier to pull the passenger seat, the right side engine compartment cover, and maybe the fan shroud. With that stuff out of the way it would be easy to replace. The biggest rookie mistake is over tightening fan belts. They actually make a belt tension tool (maybe one of those rental places have one), but IMO a belt has proper tension when it's just tight enough to not slip. For new belts I set a bit tight because they always stretch a bit during the 1st 100 miles or so. Tim

[Canoed_son]

That is fantastic news!! :rol: I will definitely be doing this myself then...also i was able to locate the part on ebay for around $100.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261498016012

I might just go with that for the sake of time and convenience. I appreciate your advice very much! You have been a huge help.


Oh no, this is a basic job. Engine definitely will not need to be taken out. You might be able to do the job from the driver's side compartment, but personally I think it would be easier to pull the passenger seat, the right side engine compartment cover, and maybe the fan shroud. With that stuff out of the way it would be easy to replace. The biggest rookie mistake is over tightening fan belts. They actually make a belt tension tool (maybe one of those rental places have one), but IMO a belt has proper tension when it's just tight enough to not slip. For new belts I set a bit tight because they always stretch a bit during the 1st 100 miles or so. Tim

[timsrv]

Wow! That's awesome information as to what other vehicles this fits. I cross referenced it in Toyota's EPC, but of course they will only list other Toyotas. I will archive the vehicle list in that eBay listing so we can know what other vehicles to take these parts from in salvage yards. Tim

[timsrv]

So I gleaned the list of applications for this pulley off the eBay listing, and turns out it's used on a bunch of other Toyotas. I'm guessing they must be using the same part with different numbers??? Hardly makes sense for them to do that, but when I cross referenced the EPC using that part number, only the van & the Hilux popped up. So, for anybody needing this idler pulley in the future, here's the list of vehicles it's used on:

85 - 95 Toyota 4Runner
85 - 87 Toyota Corolla
98 - 05 Toyota Hilux
85 - 89 Toyota Pick-up
94 Toyota T100
84 - 89 Toyota Van
91 - 92 Ford Festiva
90 - 91 Hyundai Sonata
94 - 98 Hyundai Sonata
92 - 93 Mazda 929 Sedan
90 Mazda B2600 Pick-up
89 - 95 Mazda MPV
93 - 93 Nissan D21 Pick-up

BTW, when I purchased my 1st van back in the late 90's, this idler pulley bearing is one of the 1st parts I needed. I went to my local dealer and was told the part was only available in as a complete idler pulley assembly and at that time they wanted ~$150 for it. I scoffed at the priced, then took the bearing to the motorcycle shop just down the street. The parts guy opened a drawer and took one out and said it was a very common bearing used in motorcycles. It cost me ~$5. It really blows me away Toyota is now asking almost $300 for that part. Tim

PS: I just noticed the eBay listing has ended. I hope you were able to get one.

[djshimon]

I have gone to McGuire bearing in Southeast Portland for a couple of the pulley bearings and they are cheap 5-10$(not Japanese or Swedish:wnk:) and have lasted a few years so far. Bring your old bearing in with you.
Also I may have a spare bracket if you haven't already bought one or taken one off your neighbors Festiva! Sorry I'm a bit late to this party. Post in the wanted section may work sometimes.

[spacecruisers]

Noticed the alternator belt had a longitudinal crack in it, so i bought new alternator and power steering Gates belts from Rock Auto at around $10 a piece. I figured by the looks of it you have to remove the power steering belt in order to get the new alternator belt past it so why not do them both at once. No A/C on this van which I would assume would normally be a 3rd belt.

Is there a write up on how to remove the old belts and get the new ones on? I tried searching the forum for about 30 mins but couldn't find anything. Also, how do I verify proper tension? Do I need to buy/rent/borrow a tool?

I haven't ever replaced belts before, but figure I should be able to do it myself with enough direction :dance2:

[AD2101]

This thread (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?27-Basic-Van-knowledge-for-new-owners&p=19609&viewfull=1#post19609) and this thread (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2325-I-must-be-retarded-(adjusting-tension-on-alternator-belt)&p=13651&viewfull=1#post13651) helped me when I went to change belts. Good luck! :dance2:

[spacecruisers]

thanks for the links. couple quick questions. in this video (http://vid5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/ThePoliticalThinker/StanceWorks/VID_20790831_190747_zpsabhackmh.mp4) from your second link, the pulley for the PS belt is the one at the top of the frame correct? I loosen the center bolt and then the long adjustment bolt on top of/behind it?

as far as the alternator belt it sounds like i just loosen the upper and lower mounting bolts then use the wing nut to adjust tension.

do i need to remove the fan/fan shroud? is that pretty easy to do? i noticed when trying to get at that upper pulley center bolt it was blocking my socket wrench from getting at it.

[spacecruisers]

tried removing the center bolt on the pulley and it won't budge. i think i rounded one of the corners :pissed:

if i can get at it with my impact wrench, i could get it off, but the fan shroud and fan are in the way. i unbolted the shroud but how in the world are you supposed to pull it out??? same goes for the fan. i don't see any way to get them out of that cramped space!

[spacecruisers]

sorry for all the posts - i kept working away at it last night and found a guide by llamavan (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?26-Accessing-the-van-engine!&highlight=remove+passenger+seat) on removing the passenger seat and engine cover. I was able to lift out the fan shroud and get GREAT access to everything. i got the first belt removed and worked away at the alternator bolt before calling it a night. i inspected the pulley bearing (part number 6302-2RS, thanks tim) and it appears to be in great shape so ill leave it.

I'll have to go at it again today or tomorrow. couldn't get down there with my impact wrench (electric) it was barely too big! I'll get out my breaker bar and see if i can work that lower alternator bolt loose. also picked up a new M8x40x1.25 bolt for the upper alternator adjustment block thingy as it was just hanging by the wing nut, the previous mounting bolt had fallen out.

Anyway, i should be able to get it from here. thanks for the guides, those were life savers.:thmbup:

[Megadysart]

When dealing with the pulley/tensioner bolts on my van, I always find that long box end wrenches are EXTREMELY handy. I think the center tensioner bolts are all 14mm.

[spacecruisers]

Im finding that out :LOL2:

i installed the new belts today and there was a loud screech when I pressed the gas pedal so I tightened them both down a little more. I noticed the PS belt was really hot for only running about 30 seconds. I started it again after tightening a little more and the PS belt started smoking and melted around the edges a little so I shut it off! I noticed after letting it sit for about 10 mins the PS pulley was still burning hot. What did I do wrong? I didn't notice any melting on the alternator belt so I think that one is ok.... I don't have a belt tensioning tool and haven't done belts before so I feel a little clueless regarding the belt tension and why it's getting so burning hot....

[Megadysart]

Are you sure the first screeching you heard was coming from the power steering belt and not the other belts you installed? I've never seen belts start smoking but it seems like it's too tight if that's the case. I would just loosen the belts back up and try again. Maybe try installing them and adjusting them one at a time. Good luck! If all else fails make sure you got the right belts. I bought an air conditioning belt from autozone and it was the wrong part number and maybe 3 inches too short.

[spacecruisers]

Yeah the screeching was definitely from the power steering. I found the issue. I'm an idiot....

I had installed the idler pulley itself correctly but had the plates backwards so it wasn't spinning. the belt was just slipping along through it. no wonder it got so hot. :doh:

[Lois85]

Just found this thread - and it sounds like the same problem I am having. I am curious if there is a photo you have of the correct way you installed the plates. I replaced the tensioner pulley all together because the old baring was shot. I am also curious if you can tighten the center bolt of the pulley too tight once the tension is set. I have chewed up two belts already :wall:.

[spacecruisers]

yeah, the wheel should spin freely. i can take a picture later.

[BetsyBrown]

I just had my ps belt melt and snap off mid ride down the freeway. It got very loud when I engaged the rear fan, then I smelt burned rubber and heard it snap off soon after.

No damage I can see, easy to replace

Is the upper most pulley supposed to be spinning on all these models? Mine is definitely fixed in place, and hence the source of the overheating and melting.

I took it apart and it didn't seem to be capable of spinning because of the way the adjuster screw is tapped right into the rod of the pulley.

Am I missing something?

[Burntboot]

Betsy - The adjuster pulley should turn free, if it doesn't, its seized and likely the reason your belt melted off.
My computer is suffering an identity crisis so am unable to attach images, we will have to work with words.

The adjuster assembly is essentially 4 parts.
A mounting bracket, a vertical threaded rod, an arbor (the bit the pulley rides on) and the pulley.
The pulley slides over the arbor and is secured with the washer and a nut, (if the washer is installed backwards, the pulley won't spin -see above)
The back side of the arbor has a threaded protrusion that the adjusting bolts threads into.
So the arbor holds the pulley and the adjusting bolt is to set the belt tension (by sliding the arbor up or down)

Normally you would just remove the nut, remove the pulley and replace and reassemble.
If you cannot get it apart, it may be better to remove the bracket (as an assembly) then dismantle it on the bench.
The nut and even the adjusting bolt can be considered sacrificial, if need be, but the arbor is not something easily sourced, so do your best not to damage it.
Before reassembling, do your self a favour and use never seize on all the threads and a wee bit on the arbor shaft (under the pulley).
That way, it won't be seized the next time you have to adjust or replace the belt.

You may want to have a good look at the alternator belt while your in there, turning on the rear heater introduces an increased electrical load, as such, it has no effect on the power steering belt issue, might be coincidence but worth investigating, just in case something else is unhappy in there.

[BetsyBrown]

Thanks for the reply!

I figured something was up with it, it's been this way since I've owned it. I'm surprised the belt lasted that long!

[BetsyBrown]

I've tried reassembling the pulley 5 different ways and it always refuses to roll when assembled

There's the pulley, 2 outer plates,nut, lock washer, and a mini pulley. Does anyone know what order these go on the arbor to spin freely? I feel like I'm missing a piece here.

Thanks

[djshimon]

Hey BetsyBrown, If you want to come over and look at mine you can. Is the bearing seized on yours?
I can't remember exactly but I think the pulley is between two washers that let it spin freely while being torqued/screwed down.

[BetsyBrown]

i think i am missing the bearing. i have the 2 washers, the big pulley, the smaller brass pulley about half the size, nut and lock washer. Nothing is seized, does not make sense how it spins freely with just these parts when the nut squeezes the washers against the mounting plate.

Id come and check it out @djshimon but i out of town for another 3 weeks

can anyone explain the right part sequence or find a diagram in the manual. no luck on this end. :wall:

thanks!

[Burntboot]

Betsy - I cannot find an exploded view of the pulley assembly and its been a good 6yrs since I did mine so things are at best foggy.

There is a bearing pressed into the middle of the pulley, the assembled bearing and pulley slide onto the arbor (sorry don't remember the order of washers) and is retained on the arbour by the nut. There should be a big cupped washer under the nut but don't remember if the 2nd washer is underneath that or behind.

It should be easy to figure out as the idle pulley needs to be in line with the pump pulley, if the washers are wrong, you should be able to see the belt deflecting.
The belt has to run in a straight line (or it will self-destruct) so that should be your guideline. Once you have everything dialled in, make sure the pulley still spins free of the bracket (belt not installed).

What parts did you buy to repair the pulley?
Unless you go to the dealer to get the assembly, you will likely have to press out the old bearing (from the pulley), match it up at the local bearing store, then press the new one back into the pulley.

[BetsyBrown]

Thanks for the explaination, I am definitely missing the bearing. Can I replace myself? Found a shop that will press it nearby if needed.

Thanks!

[AD2101]

It's easy enough to replace yourself, without pictures or a visual aid handy I'm not sure exactly which bearing you're missing, but when my idler pulley bearing seized I was able to replace it a "6302-2RS" spec bearing.

If the bearing is missing, just clean up the inside of the pulley, line the new bearing up on top of the pulley and use a socket that's as close to the size of the outer race as you can get and help it in with a hammer, no need to outsource something like this. I imagine using a flat piece of wood would also work in lieu of the socket.

Here (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?1880-Diagnosing-Squealing&p=11334&viewfull=1#post11334) was a thread that helped me when I was in a similar spot a while back. Good luck!

[djshimon]

Maybe this will help?
The first pic is left(engine side washer) to right(the nut holding it on) in order going away from the engine.
The second is all the washers and bearings' backside or what you would see if you were the engine facing out but from right to left.
The pictures do not show the depth or shape of the cupped washers-maybe I'll amend this post later for clarity.
Is that confusing?


64876488

[cedarsvan]

Hi all,
I have a 1989 Toyota Van LE 2.2 L and recently the power steering belt snapped (scared me to death on the freeway). Does anyone have any technical advice or photos of the installation/how the belt should normally look? I have the original manual, but it does not show any useful diagrams on installing the belt. Any help is appreciated! Love the site, thanks for everything.

[Burntboot]

Cedar - While replacing the belt will certainly correct that aspect of the failure, you need to determine why the belt failed.
99% of the time it will be a seized idler pulley (the pulley that moves to adjust tension on the Pwr Str belt)


As a side note, you will need to drop the belts that are in front first, alternator for sure, not sure about A/C (if so equipped), been awhile since I was in there.

[cedarsvan]

Thanks Burntboot. I looked at that thread earlier, for some reason the videos/pictures were not loading. I will try looking again. Also, thank you for the advice on the idler pulley. How do I know if that seized/if it did seize how do I fix it? Thanks a ton!

[cedarsvan]

Does anyone know if it's okay to drive without the belt? It is obviously harder to turn but from what I could tell the belt was not attached to anything else except for the power steering.

[llamavan]

Does anyone know if it's okay to drive without the belt? It is obviously harder to turn but from what I could tell the belt was not attached to anything else except for the power steering.

Perfectly OK as long as you're physically able to drive without P/S. On your '89, that should not require much extra muscle. On the '84-'85 vans, it's definitely tougher (recirculating ball instead of rack and pinion).

Gwen

[boogieman]

there was a little debate about extra stress on the bevel gear(part of the linkage toward the front, makes a 90° coupling), but my 87 4x4 came with all the power steering components removed and i dont miss it...it really cleans up the engine compartment as well, making it way easier to access the alternator and thermostat among other things...it helps to have the van moving and your tires properly inflated...

[BetsyBrown]

super helpful, thank you!

[hughdawgmmkay]

Wanted to let everyone know this thread was very helpful to me! I just ordered the bearing from Ebay...looking forward to tuning up my old tensioner.

-Hugh

[cedarsvan]

Oh no, this is a basic job. Engine definitely will not need to be taken out. You might be able to do the job from the driver's side compartment, but personally I think it would be easier to pull the passenger seat, the right side engine compartment cover, and maybe the fan shroud. With that stuff out of the way it would be easy to replace. The biggest rookie mistake is over tightening fan belts. They actually make a belt tension tool (maybe one of those rental places have one), but IMO a belt has proper tension when it's just tight enough to not slip. For new belts I set a bit tight because they always stretch a bit during the 1st 100 miles or so. Tim

Tim,

How do you get the belt over the three pulleys without pulling the engine? Just eyeing it there's a piece right in the middle that the belt can't get over.

Thanks much!

[timsrv]

Here's a quote from the "Basic van knowledge" thread:


The good thing about the serpentine belt is it's obvious what pulleys it rides on (only one serpentine belt). The bad thing is it's the farthest one back. This means the other 2 belts must be removed before you can change it. Since you'll be pulling all the belts you should replace them all. 1st pull the power steering, then the AC (if still equipped), then the Serpentine (if there's anything left of it). The PS & the Alt belt will need to be worked around the fan (coming off and going back on). This can be fun with the fan shroud in the way, but is manageable. Just work it over the fan one blade at a time until it's free. When all the belts are back on tighten them a bit tighter than normal as new belts stretch. If you don't know how tight to make them it's better to stay on the loose side. If they squeal, they're too loose :dizzy:. There's actually a tensioning tool (perhaps available for rent at Autozone or equivalent). There is such a thing as too tight, and you don't want to go there. The alternator belt is easy because there's a wing nut that is tightened by hand. When doing that one, just crank the wing nut as tight as you can (without tools), then tighten the set bolts (upper and lower alternator mount bolts).

For removing the AC & PS belts you will need to loosen the idler pulleys. To do that you'll need to loosen the the set bolts in the front/center of the pulley (14 mm) then use the long threaded 12 mm bolt to loosen/tighten. After the new belts are on & tight, snug up the center "set" bolts. Have fun. Tim

PS: You might try searching the forum for more information. Here's a thread on the subject: https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2115-A-C-power-steering-and-fan-(water-pump-alternator)-belts

To view the post in it's original location, click on the little blue arrow next to my name (beginning of the quote). Tim

[Wrench]

Hey guys! I'm having a little squeal from one of the belts in my van. It only happens in high humidity and / or when the van starts from cold, but yesterday for some reason it was more persistent than usual, squealing quite a bit whenever I idled or accelerated in first. As soon as the van shifted up out of first the squeal stopped. My a/c wasn't on (it never is because I have yet to fix the fan.) I'm guessing this is the serpentine belt? Power steering I wouldn't see the correlation with shifting and I'd notice it more while cornering right? Is it okay to apply belt dressing to the serpentine belt or is it a bad idea? My understanding is belt dressing is super bad for EPDM belts but helps quite a bit with neoprene. I guess if the belts are original, or at the very least old they'd be neoprene, but how can I tell if they've maybe been replaced by EPDM belts? Thanks!

[timsrv]

A belt squeal that's associated with electrical loads (like headlights on and fan running on high) is most likely an alternator belt (serpentine). One that's associated with cranking your steering is typically going to be the PS pump belt (V-belt), and one that's associated with turning on your AC is typically going to be the AC belt (V-belt). I'm not aware of how the belt market is changing and/or materials they are made of, but I don't think belt dressing would hurt (I personally don't use belt dressing). When I'm investigating belt noise, assuming they're all tight, I use silicone spray on one belt at a time. The silicone will temporarily quiet it down a noisy belt and make it obvious which belt is the problem. And as always, when messing around near moving parts, do so at your own risk and be very careful. Tim

[Wrench]

A belt squeal that's associated with electrical loads (like headlights on and fan running on high) is most likely an alternator belt (serpentine). One that's associated with cranking your steering is typically going to be the PS pump belt (V-belt), and one that's associated with turning on your AC is typically going to be the AC belt (V-belt). I'm not aware of how the belt market is changing and/or materials they are made of, but I don't think belt dressing would hurt (I personally don't use belt dressing). When I'm investigating belt noise, assuming they're all tight, I use silicone spray on one belt at a time. The silicone will temporarily quiet it down a noisy belt and make it obvious which belt is the problem. And as always, when messing around near moving parts, do so at your own risk and be very careful. Tim
Hey Tim! I got in there and snugged up all the belts, but I'm still getting squeal. Noticing a pretty clear correlation between the squeal and electrical loads (headlights particularly.) At a glance the serpentine belt appears to be pretty fresh so my guess is I've got a bad idler pulley bearing? Am I right to assume based on what I've read so far in this thread that I could remove the serpentine belt and spin the idler pulleys with my hand to see if the bearings are okay? Access to those pulleys from the top seems nearly impossible so I'm guessing I'd want to jack the van up. I know to replace the belt itself I'd have to remove the other two belts, but if I only need to replace a pulley bearing could this be done without removing the P/S and A/C belts, just leaving the serpentine belt hanging slack off the other pulleys? Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions, I'm a bicycle mechanic and this is my first ever foray into auto mechanics. Thanks!

Wrench

[timsrv]

The serpentine belt does not have an idler pulley, only the AC and PS belts have those. To get decent access you'd need to pull the passenger seat and the access hatch under that. You wouldn't need to pull the belts to check the bearings in the idlers, just loosen them up enough to spin the pulley and feel the bearings.

Before doing that I'd use silicone spray on the belts (as previously mentioned) as that may help you identify. Tim

[Wrench]

The serpentine belt does not have an idler pulley, only the AC and PS belts have those. To get decent access you'd need to pull the passenger seat and the access hatch under that. You wouldn't need to pull the belts to check the bearings in the idlers, just loosen them up enough to spin the pulley and feel the bearings.

Before doing that I'd use silicone spray on the belts (as previously mentioned) as that may help you identify. Tim Pardon my automotive ignorance, what are the pulleys the serpentine belt runs on called? How many contact points are there? One for alternator, one for fan and one for water pump? I'll try silicon spray to confirm it's the serpentine belt.

[timsrv]

The serpentine belt runs the water pump and the alternator pulleys. Adjusting the alternator tightens/loosens this belt. The PS pump and the AC compressor are not adjustable so they use adjustable idler pulleys to keep them tight. Pulleys that are only used for routing and/or adjusting belts are called idler pulleys. Tim

[Wrench]

The serpentine belt runs the water pump and the alternator pulleys. Adjusting the alternator tightens/loosens this belt. The PS pump and the AC compressor are not adjustable so they use adjustable idler pulleys to keep them tight. Pulleys that are only used for routing and/or adjusting belts are called idler pulleys. Tim
Makes sense! Thank you.

[PNW vanwagon]

just replaced all my belts. a few notes for DIYers:

- 12mm and 14mm wrenches and sockets / ratchet
- completed job with just driver's side seat up
- removed plastic guard beneath van for easier access to some belts (two 12mm bolts)
- PS belt came off easy from up top : AC and ALT belts easier from below
- no need to feed AC belt through fan
- i sprayed a little silicone lube on all bolts i'd be loosening and pulley spindles
- AC belt spec'd at auto supply store was too short : went back got next size longer and it worked perfect
- as noted new belts should be installed the very slightest bit tighter than usual 1/2" deflection
- good time to clean pulleys where belts will be seated
- i used a medium extension + short extension to reach the AC tension adjustment bolt from up top
- total time about 1 – 1-1/2 hours

[iMickey503]

Sounds like it's missing the idler pulley. There's a 3rd pulley (small one) just inboard of the PS pulley. It's got a vertical bolt w/12 mm hex head for adjusting belt tension. The 14 mm hex head bolt in the center of the pulley is to lock it in place once it's adjusted. If you're missing this pulley and/or it's mounting bracket, the best thing to do would be to find a van in a salvage yard and take these parts. Toyota may still stock these, but they will likely charge $250 or so. A salvage yard would likely charge $15 or so. If you go this route, there's a little bearing inside the pulley that should be replaced. The part number is 6302-2RS and is easy to find for cheap: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=6302-2RS&_sop=15

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/86%20LE%20rebuild/190519fb-0ab9-48e7-9362-01cec2ba26d1_zpsz4pxjvqt.jpg

I want to say thank you for posting the Bearing number. I'm going to order it at Napa since I know they carry good quality bearings. Or try Baxters and have them push in the bearings at the machine shop here in Oregon.

My mom called me today and told me her belt shredded off. Got there and took of the power steering pulley, and found that it would still drive fine with without it. I had her drive it home and she made it home just fine. I will show photos of the bearing and post them in a week . MAN it seized up The belt got so hot it was like crunchy.

I will post parts that I got and where I got them and hopefully part numbers so it will help someone in the future.

Again, THANK YOU BRO!
-iMickey503

[timsrv]

I've changed that bearing a few times. It's been a while, so I don't remember all the details, but I don't think it needed any pressing. I think it just pops out and the new one pops right back in. That bearing is used a lot on motorcycles, so if Napa doesn't have one a motorcycle shop should. Good luck. Tim

[BoostinBen]

So i am in a similar spot as some of the other folks in this thread where in i need to get my hands on a new power steering drive belt idler assembly.. Long story short i was driving and my water pump / alt belt snapped, I managed to get the van home and went to remove the front power steering belt to get access to the rear alt belt and after loosening the pulley bolt i was still having a really tough time backing off the adjustment bolt on the tensioner.. a few tries and i snapped the bolt off in it .. Then wasn't able to drill it out either so looks like I need a replacement..

Hope you don't mind, I grabbed the pics from page 1 of this thread to help illustrate the part I am looking for .. If anyone has one in a parts pile, parts van etc .. id really appreciate the chance to buy one from a member here.. There is only one van in norcal at the yards at the moment and that is all the way up in Sacramento.. The way things are with work n kids at home at the moment.. well, its a stretch to think ill get a whole day to make that drive .. needless to say its a gamble if that one van even has the part still...

10782

I am really hoping i can get the van back on the road soon .. I recently added a rear bumper with tow hitch and have been using the van to launch my tin boat at my local marina :thmbup: been sneaking away for a couple hours with my son on the Petaluma river a couple days a week .. he (and I) are really missing it .. :)

[BoostinBen]

Well small update . I actually managed to drill out the busted bolt and re-tap the belt tensioner .. I am going to re-assemble tomorrow and see how it looks .. I may still be interested in a replacement depending on how well it goes together if anyone out there has a lead ... but fingers crossed this goes back together and looks like it will hold up.

[dom]

What's the length and thread of the long vertical bolt on the idler pulley? I remember Tim posting it somewhere but I cant find it for the life of me...

EDIT: GOT IT - M8 x 1.25 x 90

[Mtn_Van]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/86%20LE%20rebuild/190519fb-0ab9-48e7-9362-01cec2ba26d1_zpsz4pxjvqt.jpg[/QUOTE]

Tim et al.,
Looks like the best post to add to instead of starting a new one. Having trouble with the alignment of my pulleys. Specifically the AC compressor (see attached pic). It is about one-half pulley width offset to the adjacent tensioner pulley. With the AC compressor bracket bolt-on design, it doesn't look like there's a possibility to shim anything here. Any thoughts or suggestions? I'm concerned about belt failure with such a drastic offset over a short distance. Note that the tensioner pulley and associated crank pulley are pretty close to being aligned. 11473

[timsrv]

More importantly, what is the pressure rating for that fuel filter, fuel hoses, and the clamps? Normal operating pressure for the van's fuel system is ~ 40 psi and that stuff looks to be only rated for ~ 5 psi. If any of that springs a leak things can get very exciting in a bad way. Especially if it blows all at once in a hot engine bay on a hot day.

Regarding the AC alignment, I didn't know it was possible, but it looks like the AC compressor pulley is installed backwards. Check out this pic from one of my parts vans:

11474

[Mtn_Van]

Thanks, Tim. Fuel line is 30R7 with a 200+ psi rating, same as the remote filter (not pictured). Added the clear filter just to see what the gas looks like. Thanks for the reminder, that wix filter doesn't have a high psi rating, so I decided it was best to remove it. 👍

Thanks for the compressor pulley pick. You are correct, it's not possible to install backwards. Looks like the pulley is pressure fit around the clutch pulley core. I think it must've gotten hot and slipped back? Tried to torch it and press it back to position with no luck. Found that the '86- '88 vans offer a separate clutch pulley #88412-22030 potentially available for purchase at a few places. Still trying to figure out the difference between the '86-88 compressors vs the '89, but it's not clear. Any insight?

[timsrv]

The extent of my AC knowledge is pretty much all here in THIS THREAD (https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?3483-Charging-Air-Conditioning-System). It's a long thread (11 pages), but there is some good info and part numbers, so you should take some time to scan/review. On page 4 I made a post that shows the part number for the compressor in my picture above.