No Spark!

[imthedude]

Hey all van was running fine went to leave work, turned over fine but no fire eventually after after cranking awhile it fired ran like roflroflroflrofl then held an idle got her home and can't get a spark, gave her some starting fluid still no spark. Just replaced cap rotor plugs and wires still no spark. Any ideas I have crusty wire that isn't making a good ground thinking it could be the problem will try and post a pic of that. Any help is appreciated I'm a novice I know a little but not a lot. Also can't seem to figure out how to check codes?!

[imthedude]

Finally figured out how to read the code (feel kinda dumb) anyways it reads out 2 codes, number 4 something to do with my cold start connector being broke im assuming, and code 6 rpm signal, pulling the cap off now any ideas of what to look for? also how can you check to see if the ECU is working properly?

[timsrv]

Take a good look at the coil where the contact inside the cap touches it. Make sure this contact on both the cap & the coil are clean & free from damage. The problem you're describing & code 6 point to a bad coil or a bad igniter. No way to tell which one it is over the internet, but I can tell you that coil failures are much more common than igniter failures.

There is a coil test outlined in the service manual but I don't consider it reliable. According to the manual there is no test for the igniter. All they say in regard to testing is "try another igniter" :rol:. Good luck. Tim

PS: That connection in your picture is the sending unit for the temperature gauge. A bad connection here will only render your temperature gauge useless. Code 4 is an indication of a bad temp sensor for the ECU. If your ECU has a bad temp sensor it will make the van run bad, but it won't prevent spark. Regardless, this sensor is important and should be replaced if bad. Tim

[imthedude]

I feel really really dumb right now, I had my brother helping me and for the most part he knows his stuff. That being said we kinda argued when he insisted the plugs fired from the front to the back 1,2,3,4 when reading the manual that is not the case, will try that tomorrow I bet it will fire. Attaching the pick of the coil it did catch my eye looks beat up and dirty, the rotor was beat up aswell replaced it though. A couple hrs ago I thought igniter but not now haha hopefully it's just the plugs and coil

[imthedude]

Thanks for responding!

[thetoaster]

There is a coil test outlined in the service manual but I don't consider it reliable. According to the manual there is no test for the igniter. All they say in regard to testing is "try another igniter" :rol:. Good luck. Tim


Uhhm. so what's the test? In my eyes a shuddy half way reliable test is better than nothing. Not having the manual for the van I would guess that it's a resistance test for the primary and secondary coil? I'm also guessing the manual has defined resistance levels. The reason for me asking is that if you can take the coil out of the equation it makes it either the ingniter(my guess) or the ECU. In my limited knowledge of these vans you would have to be very unlucky for it to be the ECU.

EDIT: Cross posting again. lol Tonight is not my night. If the wires are crossed forget everything I said:wall::drunk:Did I mention I type at the pre-school level?

[timsrv]

It's a resistance test, but it's rare that a good coil will test good (they almost always fall outside the limits called out in the manual). The other problem with coils is it's common for them to fail by becoming intermittent (when this happens they usually will work when cold but not when hot). Of course if that were the case it would at least start cold (so if it's a coil it's probably just dead). Spark plug wires do need to be hooked up correctly though, so this should be verified & corrected (if required). Still, that coil contact doesn't look real good, and something caused that code 6 to trigger. Sounds like you have some things to check and a temp sensor to replace. Hopefully this will resolve your issues.

In regards to ECUs, they can fail but it's rare. It wasn't until a year ago I had my 1st one fail. Van would still run, but it didn't run right. Fuel gauge was also inop. Putting another ECU in solved both issues. That van had been parked for over a decade in a humid environment, so I assume it was a corrosion issue (didn't bother opening it up).

If you're not aware, there's a copy of an 87 factory service manual available for download HERE (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q4u_5zlshRsVDv5v86CiukP7wOD7nKyF/view). Enjoy :) Tim

[thetoaster]

Tim

I wasn't aware of that PDF manual at all. I tried to increase your rep power but I can't as of now. So a simple THANK YOU will have to do. Very rarely do I use caps in the online world. So thank you again for the wealth of knowledge you choose to share.

[imthedude]

I can get a coil for pretty cheap, figure once I get the wires back in the right order, it will fire just fine maybe even run and hopefully the coil will A) easy my mind and B) hopefully sure up the engine code. This has all really opened my eyes to all the little things I need to get fixed asap. It's been my daily driver for almost 4 yrs now and haven't had to fix much been pretty lucky I Guess. Hopefully this sures things up thanks for the feedback! And wll be getting a temp sensor soon its been broke for a year now haha That online manual is very nice I need to print it out! But I do find it pretty confusing sometimes like I said Im no expert and that books thinks I know more than I do! And really wish the manual had actual live shots of the engine with all the different parts labeled, I feel blind trying to troubleshoot this engine because I dont know even know where half the parts are.... All that aside I have picked up some great things from the manual and the forums and a lot of the stuff Tim has posted on here, Ya'll rocks!

[timsrv]

Before changing the coil I would recommend clearing codes, fixing the other known issues, then attempt to start. If it doesn't start, crank for about 10 seconds then recheck codes. If #6 comes back then I would replace the coil. The reason for this is that code could have been there for a long time. It could have even been accidentally put there by a tech cranking the engine with something disconnected or disabled. Tim

[imthedude]

Ok that makes sense just have to disconnect the negative terminal correct? That should reset it? Cant wait to get going on it.

[timsrv]

Disconnecting either battery cable will do it, but it's better to pull the EFI fuse (won't reset your clock). As long as you remove power from the ECU for 15 seconds or more the codes will reset. Tim

[imthedude]

Swapped out the coil what a pan that was with those 4 screws in the back anyways. Anyways still no spark tested the plugs and still nothing. Also tested the coil wires and the coil is getting power. Next will probably an igniter arghh they are pricey!

[thetoaster]

There's one on fleabay right now for 100 even. Maybe TIm has a spare laying around he'll cut you a deal on? I friend of mine had the exact situation your in. Van was running great. Drove back to camp one night and it started to run really rough. Power dropped to almost nothing. He parked it and in the morning it just cranked over and over. He had it towed to a garage near the national park he was staying in. The guys in the shop told him it was the ECU. They quoted him over a grand to replace it. After he got done crying he called me. I told him that the ECU very rarely fails in these things. I'd try to get a used igniter from a junk yard. He lucked out and found one close to where he was. I can't recall the exact price but it was cheap. He went to the repair shop and asked them to install it. They said no. It's not the issue and the ECU needs to be replaced. I called them and asked them to humor me. They finally agreed. After their mechanic installed it the van fired up first go.

There was two things I learned from this. The first is that these ECUs are really pretty solid. The second is never ever take your vehicle to a garage within 100 miles of a national park. lol

[imthedude]

Fleabay! haha I found another one brand new for only 450$! what a crock! Im tempted by the 100$ one but I might need to waiting with funding, ive looked at all the local pick n pulls with no luck... I'm also just a reluctant as to whether that is the complete diagnosis, back to the drawing board tomorrow.. That's a rough story about your friend, I want to take her to thee Gorge in August so I've got a lot of work to get completed quickly.. Good to know about the ECU! I've found a few of those for like 75-100 on ebay but again another 400 part otherwise:pissed:

[timsrv]

That's a bummer. I don't sell parts but I have been known to let people "borrow" them. I put quotes on "borrow" because some of these have been borrowed for a very long time (years on some) with no contact from borrower :doh:. If you wish to borrow a part, all I ask is you send me another good one later when you can find one for a reasonable price. If you agree with these terms, PM me your address and I'll send you an igniter. Tim

[imthedude]

Tim is a good man! Good Karma coming your way!

[thetoaster]

Tim that offer is above and beyond. I made my post as a well intentioned joke. I had no idea that you would even consider being so generous. For that you get my van as soon as it finally dies. I'm not kidding here. When my van up and calls it quits, or I just up and quit working on it, it's yours. I'm in Northish Cali. If you'd be willing to split shipping fees to your local it's a done deal. Keep in mind that the toaster has well over 300,000 and is still running like a champ. So you might have to wait to collect this offer. But when the time comes I'd much rather have it go to you than a scrap yard. Awaiting your verbal handshake and it's a done deal. :thmbup:

[timsrv]

Lol, That's more generous than a simple igniter. I can't wait! Of course there's my wife to consider, I doubt free is cheap enough for her blessing on another van :lol:.

Dude, replacing the igniter isn't too bad..........especially if you already have the passenger seat & access panel removed. I did it once without removing the seat & panel, but it sucked getting the connector unclipped from the distributor & disconnecting/reconnecting it . After that I decided it's easier (and a lot less frustrating) to just start out by removing the passenger seat & access panel.

One thing to watch out for, a couple of the plugs on the igniter can be plugged into themselves, so make sure they are being plugged into the connections on the van (if you plug the igniter to itself & the van to itself, then you'll feel really stupid.......especially if it takes a long time to figure out what you did (don't ask me how I know). :doh: Tim

[imthedude]

Well folks no good news to report:pissed: Replaced the igniter with the one that Tim so kindly sent me! But still nothing. Tried another coil and rotor still no fire.. Everything looks to be connected well, and I have power going to the Igniter. Also reset the computer before giving it a start. Fuel is moving fine. Testing for spark though and I don't have anything! Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated.. Im go back and tinker around arggggggh

[djshimon]

I put in my igniter not too long ago and it grounded on the body(frayed wire) and blew the fusible link. Van had some lights, but would not start and some lights were out. Check the fusible link behind the battery-it's an easy check.

[timsrv]

There's very little left it could be. We're now getting into the "unusual" area. Perhaps a pick-up coil in the distributor? A broken wire somewhere? I think it's time to swap in another distributor........maybe an ECU? Tim

[thetoaster]

Lol, That's more generous than a simple igniter. I can't wait! Of course there's my wife to consider, I doubt free is cheap enough for her blessing on another van :lol:. Tim

My wife will be glad to see the toaster go. The van not me. lol I doubt shipping is cheap so maybe we could look into other options. Here's a thought. I've already decided that my next van will be an 87-89 4wd manual. If there's one that pops up in your neck of the woods I'd buy it if you could take receipt of it for me. I'd pay you for picking it up and going over it. Any work you think it needs would also be covered by me. Whenever you have the time of course. I'm in no hurry. Having just bought a house I see this being more than a year out before I'd be able to get up there. If I get another van before I get the kitchen remodel done I just might be single again. Once the stars align I would pack my wife and some climbing gear in the toaster and take a trip to Squamish or Smith rock. In route I drop off my van to you and pick up the 4wd. I know this is a crazy idea coming through the internet having never met in person. I'm an honest, no BS, kind of guy. All money would be paid upfront on my end. If you would to talk about it more feel free to PM me and I'll give you my email and phone number.

OP sorry for the thread drift and best of luck tracking down where that failure point is. I like Tim's idea of replacing the entire distributor. Here's another story about those.

Back in the day I owned an 77 F250. It was a beast of a truck. The 400M motor was working really well with the new intake manifold and carb I installed. It worked even better after I "converted" it to straight pipes. It had 6 inches of suspension and 3 inches of body lift added by me as well. That truck could spin it's 38" tires going into 3rd and never got stuck off roading. One day I was puling out of a store and onto a one way street. A semi was about a 1/4 of a mile down the road. No worries for this truck. I pulled out and romped through first and second. Shifted into third hard and the motor shut off. Yep it shut the hell off. Oh Crap. I darted over the curb back into the parking lot as a really pissed off truck driver flipped me off as he passed. I deserved every bit of that bird.

Any way, with a failure like that it surely means a snapped the timing chain. So I call a buddy who lives a few miles away and happens to be a mechanic. He picks up his tools and some beer and heads my way. We do some testing and realize it's not the chain. After removing the distributor cap and cranking we both watched something very odd. The engine was turning but the distributor shaft was not moving. Problem solved. We pulled the shaft and it removed effortlessly. However the gear that mates it to the crankshaft wasn't at the end of the distributor shaft. lol We both saw where the scroll pin that holds it in place had sheared. Removing that thing was like playing the kids game Operation. What a PIA. Three beers later it finally came out undamaged.

I headed down the road to another friends machine shop. He specializes in racing motors. I told him the story and he knows the cause right away. According to him the factory oil pump couldn't keep up with the driving and pulled in some air causing a slight pause pause in the system. The weak link in that pause was the factory 2mm scroll pin that ford uses in the distributor. He took it to the drill press and bored it out to a 4mm Chevy size. Yep I know had a Chevy part in my Ford truck. We replaced the distributor and my truck roars back to life. The next weekend I replaced the factory oil pump with a high volume one and never had any issues again.

[imthedude]

Well today was a good day:lol: Over the past month I have replaced all my sensors replaced the ignition switch. Having still no spark:pissed: I let it sit for a couple weeks and didn't even think about the damn thing, I was actually starting to enjoy my beat up pathfinder haha. But I knew it wasn't right to let her sit anymore. So I go back over everything that has been replaced and find something that looks very odd. That igniter Tim loaned me appeared to be plugged into itself, I can't help but laugh because he actually warned me about plugging it in correctly as it's very easy to do, I feel pretty damn stupid. But I guess I learned a few things and its got a lot of new parts! Tim I'll send out your Igniter this week Thanks again for helping me out! Any BTW she fired right up and help a perfect idle after sitting a month!

[timsrv]

Lol, you're not the 1st person to plug an igniter into itself :rol: (that's why I warned you about that) :slap:. I gotta give you kudos for admitting it though (I probably would have kept that a secret) :redface:. So was it the igniter after all? If so please don't send me the bad one :wave1:. Tim

[imthedude]

I pondered the idea but I felt this was dumb enough that I had to share! I am going to test my old one tomorrow I also picked one up at a junk yard the other day! So one way or another you will have a working one back to you!.

[timsrv]

Lol, just kidding around with sending me the bad one (I know you wouldn't do that). Glad to hear it's running. How 'bout them dancing bananas :dance2: :dance1:

[Mackd]

Maybe you guys can help me with a similar problem. I wasn't getting spark so I replaced the distributer, coil, distributer cap, plugs, wires, rotor everything. I exchanged the ignitor. My van was running fine, then died and I am not getting spark again. ideas????

[TVCamper]

It's looking like I need to replace my igniter as well :pissed: I am getting no spark on my van (‘88 Van Wagon LE) and I don’t see any bounce from the tachometer whencranking the engine. Assuming this is a solid indicator of a bad igniter (?), into the world of discontinued parts I dive…


I haven’t beenable to find anything at all online and the parts van I have is an‘84 model so the igniter is not compatible. I’m wondering ifanybody has any leads on an igniter that I could buy?! It would be alife saver I’d really hate to have that be the end of the van.


I’m guessing its avery long shot… but is there any reason to expect that anotherigniter could be swapped in as a replacement, or are the specs prettyspecific and another one could cause big trouble? Since its an NLApart and I know I’ not the first person having to search for one,I’m guessing the fact that I haven’t seen anything about it onthis site means it’s a no go.

Thanks everyone!

[boogieman]

ive read about the 22re truck guys adapting gm style ignition modules...someone smarter than i should figure this out for our vans...

[Mackd]

Hello Newbie -
I just lived through this nightmare on my 88 4x4, and FINALLY figured out the problem. The engine would turn over, but not start due to no spark - uggghhh!!!! I read (can't remember where), to check the ignition switch in the steering column. I purchased a new ignition switch (Rock Auto or Amazon) and removed the plastic cowling around the steering column. And there it was (I did not take pictures - sorry) a few fried wires from the ignition switch. It looked age related (worn out) not from a spontaneous short. I replaced the ignition switch and cleaned up the wires. The thing started right up. Like you, I thought it was my ignitor. I checked my fusable links, I checked fuses, spark plugs, spark plug wires, Dist cap, Dist with pick up coil, Coil, I checked everything I thought might be the problem - it drove me nuts!!! AND replaced all of these parts! I do not regret replacing all of the parts that I did as my ignition system seems pretty healthy now. The ignition switch is cheep too (like $30 on Amazon or Rock Auto). It's also easy to install. Anyway..., check it out. I hope this helps.

[TVCamper]

ive read about the 22re truck guys adapting gm style ignition modules...someone smarter than i should figure this out for our vans...

That'd be awesome, especially since I'm sure they are only getting rarer. I wish that I was the person smart enough to figure it out, but with my level of experience I'd just be asking for trouble! :no:

[Kermit]

good man my toyota van 86 does not have a spark I do not know if it is the dealer or the lighter I would like to do a bench test to rule out that they are not damaged but I do not know how to do it