Heater woes

[Harbilly]

I blame myself. A chunk of heavy paper went down the vent and for 6 mos the blower fan 'ticks' from the paper.
I kept meaning to clean it out.
I didn't.
Now the motor runs slowly (still ticks, responds to speed settings but is slow in all of them).
Sometimes it doesn't run.
Then, the next day it runs.
I sort of smell a 'burning' outside of the car when I get out on the driver side but can't track it down (may be unrelated).

Sounds like the blower motor, right? (Resister pack failure doesn't cause this I think).
I looked for fuse block issues but I might have missed something. I haven't pulled the fuse or (is there a relay?) relay to sniff or look for burning etc.
If it's the fan motor is this a parts counter thing, toyota, wrecker?
Pricey?
Should I be afraid?
89 4wd with (I'm sorry to say, AC)

Any other ideas?

[timsrv]

It sounds like the motor is failing. The paper and the smell are probably coincidental (it's probably just it's time). These motors have brushes and bushings (which means they have a limited life). Your resistor only controls lower speeds, so even if that went bad the high speed would still work.

On my cargo van the original fan motor went out at around 100k miles. I replaced it with aftermarket (which ran faster) and my resistor failed shortly after (which I blamed on the faster motor). I replaced the resistor but the new motor only lasted about 3 years/30k miles. This last time I purchased genuine Toyota. So far I've been using it about 3 years/35k miles and it's been working great.

Aftermarket motors are readily available as are the genuine Toyota. Aftermarket can be purchased most anywhere for $20 - $50. Genuine Toyota is part #87104-28010 and can be purchased for around $110 from most of the discounted internet sites (MSRP is currently $150.47)

When it comes to changing it you have a couple of options. If your van was not equipped with factory AC, then you've got it made. Gwen (llamavan) has done this job on one of her non-AC vans and reported it was a breeze. If you have factory AC, (like all of my vans) then I'm afraid the job is a PITA. I have done this job on an AC van 4 times now & based on my experience I recommend removing the passenger side headlight assembly (for access). If the knee bar (crash bar) wasn't there in the way, you could just pull the motor straight out from under the dash with the squirrel cage (blower wheel) installed on the motor shaft (there would be no need to remove the headlight). However, with the knee bar in the way, you need to pull the motor out sideways (not possible with the squirrel cage installed on the shaft). With the headlight assembly removed you can reach up there from the intake hole, take the nut off the squirrel cage, and separate it from the motor shaft. After the squirrel cage is off the shaft, you can tweak the motor sideways enough to squeeze it out past the knee bar. One problem will be the shaft spinning while you try to remove the nut. To counter that, remove the blower motor mounting bolts and pull it out far enough to stick a skinny screwdriver up from behind to jam the wheel (careful, it's only plastic).

In my experience the hardest part in all this is trying to align the shaft of the new motor back into the squirrel cage hole. Once you got that back on you're home free.

These pics are of one of my parts vans with the headlight assy and blower motor already removed. In the 2nd picture you can see all the way into the area where the squirrel cage would normally be, and then beyond to the under side of the dash.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/IMG_9602.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/IMG_9599.jpg

Here's the view you get with only the cornering light removed. I did it this way once (reaching up through this hole without removing the headlight assy). I was successful but it was frustrating, took longer, and left me with scratches and bruises to my arm :swear:.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/IMG_9053.jpg

I've read somewhere (I think TVP) somebody saying headlight removal was not necessary, but I think they must have had a non-AC van. If your van has factory AC I think this would require hacking that knee bar (not recommended) or disassembling the dash far enough to remove it (probably worse than doing it my way).

Here's a picture of the Toyota fan motor I used last time around.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/whatever/IMG_9055.jpg

[Harbilly]

Thanks Tim.
Ya, It's factory AC.
I'll track down genuine toyota, here or from 1st.
:bdmd:
Bill

[bald josh]

Maybe this will help...my van has factory A/C but i was able to pull the motor and squirell cage intact from the inside without cutting the knee bar. I undid harness connectors and nuts/bolts that would restrict movement of the knee bar, and just pulled the bar away from the blower, stuck a deep well socket between knee bar and body ( theres a threaded post right there to slide socket over so it wont slip off) after work was done the knee bar popped almost all the way back into place and replacing the nuts and bolts seated it the rest of the way.

[timsrv]

Wow! I had done that too but only used like a 1/2" standard socket (not a deep socket). I had taken out the easy fasteners on the bar too. Just how hard did you need to pull on the bar to get it that far away? I never took my dash pad off, did you take yours off?

[bald josh]

It took some effort, hard to say how much...I was able to do it by myself, pull with one hand and insert the socket with the other. I imagine with a helper to place the socket and pulling with both hands it would be alot easier. Maybe around 40 pounds of pull. that socket is just a standard deep well, i had to flex a little more to squeeze the last of the squirell cage out , if i had just used a little deeper socket it would have been easier. I was worried about folding the steel but it didnt seem like it was going to do that.

[timsrv]

Well there you go. Perhaps I just wasn't aggressive enough. Next time I'll grunt a little harder :LOL2:. Tim

[Burntboot]

Harbilly - probably not an issue but might be wise to double check your fusible link in the black box at the battery.

I only mention because I had a little deja vu, reading your story.
I was getting a burning smell (kinda hot plastic smell) from the drivers side after exiting the vehicle.

Didn't think much about it at the time as I couldn't narrow it down, then I had catastrophic failure of the FL1.25 link.
The burning smell turned out to be from the black holder that was melted beyond recognition.

Since repairing the harness I haven't smelt it again, so it might be worth a look, just to be safe.

BB

[momentum]

Greetings TVT,

The recent snowpocalypse in Portland OR has apparently put a stop to my heater, and is no longer working. Was working fine until yesterday. I need heat and defroster! What to do next? I found this post: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?118-Blower-motor-speeds-lost-Resister-pack-fix ...but am curious if there are any other posts that will hopefully help me navigate all things heater / blower.

In the mean time, I will check "front blower reset button" however, fan does not appear to operate on high.

Thanks in advance.

-Momentum

[mr_josh]

Greetings fellow Snowpocalypse 2.0 survivor. My van is parked in what is now down to 6 inches of snow in front of my house.

If you have no blower action, first thing you have to do is check / reset the breaker and go from there. Usually, though, when a fuse blows or a breaker trips, something causes it. Fuses rarely blow just due to old age- something drawing higher-than-spec amperage causes them to blow. So look for bad fuses / tripped breaker, replace or reset one that's blown, and if it blows or trips again, suspect either a wiring problem or a failing fan motor (or something impeding the fan motor's rotation).

[TotesVan]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to replace the heater blower motor in my '87 4x4 van. The fan doesn't blow in any setting. I thought I'd just put it off until next winter (hey, it's spring) but a recent terrifying, snowy night drive over a mountain pass with no defroster has caused me change my mind. The good news is that the van's 4wd did great! If only I could see the road...:dizzy:

I was told by the PO and two different shops that the motor needs to be replaced, and the part is NLA. I've contacted five different sites today, all the same story, part # 87104-28010 was discontinued. I searched on ebay, rockauto, toyota online parts, and a few other sites and I'm not having any luck. Any tips on where to find one (in PDX), or do I have to go for aftermarket and plan on replacing it every few years?

Thanks for any help!

[timsrv]

Whenever possible I prefer OEM parts, but more & more that's no longer an option. There are still lots of AM fan motors out there & they can be had for ~$25. Here's a link to them on RockAuto.com (http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1987,van,2.2l+l4,1279784,heat+&+air+conditioning,blower+motor,6916)

[bigeo]

My blower stopped working at any speed and I have things ripped (dash panel, etc.) out to replace it, but I would like to be sure that's the problem before I actually pull the blower. I have checked the control switch, the breaker, the relay (in the "unactivated" position) and the resistor block (two of three broken). Seems like if I supply power to the correct terminals on the plug from the motor that connects to the resistor block the motor should spin unless it's toast. I was thinking of using a cigarette lighter plug with the opposite end clipped, wires stripped and tinned as the power supply. Is this a good idea? Can anyone tell me which terminal to apply power to (I'm assuming the other lead goes to ground)

[timsrv]

If you disconnect the motor & put power directly to the motor leads, if the fan comes on, then it's something other than the blower motor. There's more troubleshooting information here: https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?347-Blower-(cabin-heat)-motor-issues

[bigeo]

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Tim. I didn't see the connection to the motor at first and thought I would be applying power to test through the plug to the resistor block. When I noticed the direct connect to the motor, but couldn't find an "upstream" disconnect to tap into, I thought I could still apply power through the resistor plug since two of the wires are the same color code as those going to the motor. I tried that with no results and also tried on my other van with a working blower; same story. Then I dug out my repair manual and looked at the wiring diagram (should have done that first,right?). It was then clear that, even though the color code was the same on two, only one of the wires from the resistor block was the same as the two going to the motor plug. So, then I added spade connectors to the wires from the power supply and managed to finagle them onto the plug on the motor, applied power and, voila, the motor turns. Didn't turn very fast or consistently, but it turned. Tried the same arrangement on my other van and the motor turned fast and consistent. I think that tells me that the problem is the blower motor.
I just ordered a new blower motor which is OEM from these guys: http://toyotaparts.lagrangetoyota.com/ They also had the resistor block.
I found it by googling the part #, instead of searching the usual suppliers' sites. This worked for me when I needed a proportioning valve recently and all the usual suspects told me it was NLA.
Tomorrow I will try to pull the old blower motor without removing the headlight assembly as per bald josh's intructions. Wish me luck.

[llamavan]

Tomorrow I will try to pull the old blower motor without removing the headlight assembly as per bald josh's intructions. Wish me luck.

Does your van have A/C or not?

Gwen

[bigeo]

Yes (unfortunately, in this case), it has AC

[JDM VANMAN]

Here's some pic's when I was at the wreckers and was doing some dismantling of the entire front end-

[bigeo]

Well, my van isn't quite that torn up . . . yet. Thanks for the pics. I've got to say, I'm a little nervous about figuring out what all the dangling plugs/wires connect to when it comes time for reassembly. Seems I was too quick to be smug about finding an OEM blower motor; my order was canceled because, guess what: NLA. Rock Auto here I come.

[JPERL]

Get to Rock Auto soon about 12 closeout pcs remaining across all vendors

[llamavan]

FWIW, the junkyard van photos show a non-A/C van. It's relatively easy to remove the blower motor from these ... with A/C, not so much.

Gwen

[bigeo]

New blower motor (four seasons from rockauto, $18) and resistor module on the way. I got the old motor out, but even with the knee bar pulled back farther than what looks to be the case in bald josh's pics, it still took a fair amount of force and finesse to get it out of the hole. I pulled the back plate off the old motor and one of the brushes fell out. The other one wasn't far behind. Diagnosis confirmed.

[bigeo]

It's all back together and the new blower is blowing at 4 different speeds! A couple of things to mention: I had to pull really hard on the knee bar to make enough space to get the blower motor/squirrel cage in and out. I used a stout piece of wood stuck into the channel to get some extra leverage. A helper would be useful for this. I couldn't get the bolt that holds the top, passenger side of the dash to align. Had to drill a 1' hole through the dash to make that connection. Otherwise it was a pretty straightforward but "awkward" job. Glad that it's done and I hope the new blower motor lasts a long time.

[timsrv]

:dance2: :thmbup:

[cornell]

Jumping on this thread because it seems most relevant.

I am cleaning up my temp spider cables with lube and have come across a problem where the mechanism for switching between fresh air / recirculated air is locking up. I hear a metallic screech as I push the assembly into the open / closed position. My previous spider broke at the switch due to the difficulty of the switch.

7986

Image is upside-down- not sure how to fix that, hah.

My question is - how can I get this thing to move freely again? I've tried lubing the assembly with grease, but I'm thinking it's the door itself from the inside locking somewhere.
Can I access the vent door from the right side headlight?

Thanks for the help.

[llamavan]

how can I get this thing to move freely again? I've tried lubing the assembly with grease, but I'm thinking it's the door itself from the inside locking somewhere.
Can I access the vent door from the right side headlight?


Check out THIS THREAD (https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?5851-HVAC-ducts-vents-and-blend-door). May or may not be the answer, but you'll want to assess the blend door first as a possible cause.

Gwen

[cornell]

Check out THIS THREAD (https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?5851-HVAC-ducts-vents-and-blend-door). May or may not be the answer, but you'll want to assess the blend door first as a possible cause.

Gwen


Thanks llamavan; This is a good start - that cable moves freely on my van. Does the recirculate / fresh air vent also move that door? Sorry, kind of confused about that.

The mechanism I'm talking about is on the side / rear of the blower housing.

[llamavan]

Does the recirculate / fresh air vent also move that door?

It's been awhile since I've poked around that part of the van, but between your description, the EPC diagram, and my hazy recollection, I'm clearer on what you're dealing with. That's a different door than what I linked to (sorry) and I'm thinking that yes, you should be able to access that from the headlight (removing the ducting out of the blower motor case would do it as well, but if you have A/C, my experience is to not mess with that ducting unless left with no other option).

I had to replace my blower motor because some of the factory interior insulation/sound deadening material made its way into that door and clogged up the works. It's possible some of that stuff (or some other, non-OEM, flotsam) has found its way into that door and is keeping it from operating smoothly. The screech sound is odd, though ... are you are finding signs of water leakage into the area under the dash on the passenger side?

Gwen

[cornell]

The screech sound is odd, though ... are you are finding signs of water leakage into the area under the dash on the passenger side?

Gwen


Yes, sadly - I have seen drips of water come through the windshield over there during periods of intense rain. It's probably rusted / corroded in such a way that needs extra lubrication or something.

I'll try the headlight and see what I can reach from back there. Alternatively I'll try to remove the entire casing by undoing the knee bar and fishing around back there maybe.