Rough Starts

[rgsjue]

My van has 200k. I bought it because of how smoothly it ran, the only problem is it is very hard to start. It usually takes at least 10 turns on the key and vehement pumping on the gas pedal before every attempt to which a friend said that does not help with fuel injection but seems to by me so I will continue.
Any ideas or suggestion would be appreciated, the van start beautifully the rest of the day after initial start up in the morning, just replaced plugs and wires and rotor cap and that had no effect. I hope this is a mechanical or electrical prob that can be fixed? Am I expecting too much from a 200k motor, but it starts so good after morning initial start. Any help greatly appreciated. Randy

[timsrv]

It could be any number of things, but sounds to me like a fuel issue. To get more clues, I would rig up a fuel pressure gauge and let it set overnight, then monitor pressure when you go to start the following morning. If pressure isn't there but comes up after 5 seconds or so of cranking, then I'd suspect the FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). If there is no pressure and it doesn't increase after you start cranking, then you will need to verify that your pump is getting power. If it's got power, but is producing no pressure, then your problem is a fuel pump. Here's a thread that shows how to check fuel pressure: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?589-Testing-fuel-system-replacing-fuel-pressure-regulator

[Danny]

It could be any number of things, but sounds to me like a fuel issue. To get more clues, I would rig up a fuel pressure gauge and let it set overnight, then monitor pressure when you go to start the following morning. If pressure isn't there but comes up after 5 seconds or so of cranking, then I'd suspect the FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). If there is no pressure and it doesn't increase after you start cranking, then you will need to verify that your pump is getting power. If it's got power, but is producing no pressure, then your problem is a fuel pump. Here's a thread that shows how to check fuel pressure: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?589-Testing-fuel-system-replacing-fuel-pressure-regulator


Hey Tim. I've been finding your knowledge invaluable as of late... many thanks to you! I am about to undertake the replacement of my FPR on my '87 4wd 5-Speed and read in your other postings on TVP that its a true pain. Any suggestions before I get started? Drive shift removal?

Thanks!

-Danny-
:bluevan:

[timsrv]

I only did this on a 4wd once and I didn't remove the shaft. If I ever do it again (on a 4wd), I would start by removing the shaft. I just changed the FPR on my 2wd the other day and it only took about 1/2 hr. BTW, there's a killer deal on Genuine Denso OE regulators on eBay right now (I just bought 8 of them). The guy was selling for only $35 each, but after I ended 2 of his auctions he raised the price to $45 :rol:. Here's a link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYOSAN-DENSO-MADE-IN-JAPAN-FUEL-PRESSURE-REGULATOR-TOYOTA-23280-73040-/251810375767?vxp=mtr (and yes, I have received and verified they are OE Denso regulators). Tim

[Danny]

I only did this on a 4wd once and I didn't remove the shaft. If I ever do it again (on a 4wd), I would start by removing the shaft. I just changed the FPR on my 2wd the other day and it only took about 1/2 hr. BTW, there's a killer deal on Genuine Denso OE regulators on eBay right now (I just bought 8 of them). The guy was selling for only $35 each, but after I ended 2 of his auctions he raised the price to $45 :rol:. Here's a link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYOSAN-DENSO-MADE-IN-JAPAN-FUEL-PRESSURE-REGULATOR-TOYOTA-23280-73040-/251810375767?vxp=mtr (and yes, I have received and verified they are OE Denso regulators). Tim


Thanks Tim! Any thoughts on these guys? They appear to be cheaper...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beck-Arnley-158-0283-Fuel-Injection-Pressure-Regulator-/370654036471?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1988%7CMake%3AToyota%7CModel%3AVan&hash=item564cb3c1f7&vxp=mtr

Sacrificing quality here?

-Danny-

[timsrv]

I haven't tried Beck Arnley, but I've tried a couple other aftermarket brands and they sucked. On one (Guaranteed Parts) the banjo surface was not square with the threaded bore and it leaked. I torqued the crap out of the bolt (as much as I dared) with double copper washers on the regulator side and finally got it to seal. About a month later I smelled gas and sure enough, it was dripping again. I took it off and replaced it with an Airtex Wells. The AW looked and fit decent, but failed internally after a few months. Prior to that I had only used OE regulators with no issue. These 2 aftermarket ones were an experiment for me and based on my experience I'd rather just pay the $150 (or there abouts) for the Toyota one (Denso is the OE manufacturer). The deal on eBay is still killer @ ~$45 & I don't expect it to last. I emailed the seller asking how much $$$ for another 10 or so, but he wouldn't come down off the $35. Next time I checked he was asking $45. I suspect he has a limited supply and will likely be out soon...........but who knows. Tim

Edit: I just checked the listing for the ones I got and see it states Beck Arnley in the description and gives the B/A part number..........so there's no guarantee you'll get the OE Denso part (like I did). I've had this happen with other B/A parts before. Sometimes Denso or Toyota will reduce inventory by dumping parts for cheap and aftermarket suppliers (like Beck Arnley) will buy and repackage. I've had this happen before with water pumps and other parts. It's hit & miss though. That other listing might be OE Denso, or it could be some other random brand. As far as that goes, even the listing I linked you to could be............but he does state "Denso" in the auction title.

Here's a couple pics of one of the FPR's I got. They are definitely new (no tool marks or bolt /washer marks) and they Say Denso with the Toyota part number right on them (all I received are the same).

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Fuel%20system/IMG_1047_zps75a53f11.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Fuel%20system/IMG_1050_zpscc6e3d53.jpg

[JDM VANMAN]

Great find on that price, I just ordered 2 of them, I'll post what they send me. On a side note how do you post the larger pictures?

thank you:thmbup:

[timsrv]

I upload to photobucket and post the image tags in my posts. This also allows me to add my TVT tags and do other simple edits. There are other image hosting sites that provide this same service. I like the bigger pics, and the ability to edit. I would encourage other members to do this too, but due to people's tendency to neglect such accounts, it's not uncommon for pics to disappear after a few years. For this reason we prefer people use the TVT on-site hosting. At least then we have control of the pics and you'll never have to worry about having all the pics disappear from a cool thread. Tim

[JDM VANMAN]

Yeah I probably wouldn't keep up with the account, but the big pics are nice. I just received my parts and they look good and do say Denso with the part number on it.

Will this FPR work on the 3Y series motor too? I ordered 2 of them and that thought didn't cross my mind at the time.... Just the awesome price stood out:)>:

thank you :thmbup:

[timsrv]

Yes. 84 - 87 calls out a different part number (lower pressure) FPR. Starting in 88 they increased pressure to help combat heat soak (this is the one on that listing). IMO this is the best FPR for that reason. If you run it on the earlier van, I suggest you also replace the pulsation damper with the more modern one as well. Tim

[mr_josh]

Randy, what happens if you just hold the throttle at about 1/4 and crank it? Your friend is right that pumping in between starting attempts shouldn't do anything except maybe it's affecting a failed throttle position sensor somehow... ?

[JDM VANMAN]

Thanks Tim,

i looked up up the pulsation damper part number and this is what I've come up with 23207-16020 but the OEM price is up there in the $115 range and it looks like it fits many different vehicles--





Model
Year
Trim
Engine
Important vehicle option details


http://www.toyotapartszone.com/images/grey-dot-pop-parts.png
Celica
1986-1987
GTS
4 Cyl 2.0L
3SGELC; ST162


http://www.toyotapartszone.com/images/grey-dot-pop-parts.png
Corolla
1984-1988
GTS, Q
4 Cyl 1.6L
4AGEC, 4AGELC; AE82, AE86


http://www.toyotapartszone.com/images/grey-dot-pop-parts.png
MR2
1985-1988
GT
4 Cyl 1.6L
4AGELC; AW11


http://www.toyotapartszone.com/images/grey-dot-pop-parts.png
Van
1984-1988
DLX, LE, STD
4 Cyl 2.0L, 4 Cyl 2.2L

[timsrv]

I may have been a year off on the higher pressure regulator. It looks like they only used that one in 1989.........but due to the extra pressure, still the best one to use for all years. I've been using these with the aftermarket pulsation damper Standard/Intermotor part #FPD4 (http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Products-FPD4-Regulator/dp/B000VB55S0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405763915&sr=8-1&keywords=standard+fpd4). I've been generally happy with these aftermarket dampers, but have noticed the threads to be a bit rough. As a result, I chase them with an M12 X 1.25 die (http://www.amazon.com/12mm-1-25-Carbon-Steel-Rethreading/dp/B0007CNJ0O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405765676&sr=8-2&keywords=m12+X+1.25+die) & then they thread onto the fuel rail easily. Tim

[JDM VANMAN]

Thank you for the 2 links. :thmbup:

Oooooohhhh that's what a carbon steel hex rethreading die looks like!!!! THANK YOU!!