How to pass CA smog???? [Archive] - ToyotaVanTech Forums

timsrv

11-22-2013, 11:13 PM

The HC's and EGR modulation are likely connected. These vans use a BVSV (Bimetal Vacuum Switching Valve) to activate the EGR modulator. This component is also notorious for getting brittle and breaking. When it breaks this creates a vacuum leak AND prevents the EGR system from functioning. Here is a picture of the BVSV:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/IMG_0659.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/IMG_2266_zps8c3c96ef.jpg

The next thing you should check is codes. If there are any stored in the ECU these could be important clues.

Things that can cause high CO are:

Dirty air filter
Bad TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)
Bad O2 sensor
Bad ECU temperature sensor
Bad AFM (Air Flow Meter)
A leaky injector

Things that can cause high HC are:

Broken BVSV
Improper ignition timing
Bad distributor cap
Bad rotor
Failing coil
Failing plug wires
Worn out spark plugs
Vacuum leak(s)
Failing catalytic converter
Low compression in 1 or more cylinders

If you get a code for bad TPS or O2 sensor, then I'd replace these and have it tested again. If the van is overdue for a tune-up or an air filter change, then address these things 1st before taking it back for another smog test. Good luck. Tim

coronan

11-24-2013, 09:14 PM

I'll come up with a full inspection this week.

This is off the top of my head...
Compression was low last time I checked (110psi). I just made a leakdown tester but haven't used it yet.
Plugs were recently changed. But I do have a misfire around 2000 rpm with no load.
My BVSV is broke, but I bypassed it so the modulator should have vacuum regardless of engine temp.
I run injector cleaner frequently but have never checked the pattern.
TPS was replaced a few years ago.
02 sensors were replaced last year.
Is O2 voltage output an indicator of it runs clean? What voltage should I look for, for best emissions?
MAF was replaced 1 year ago.

trestlehed

11-25-2013, 02:08 PM

2 years ago I had my van smogged. It barely passed, the tech said it was running a little rich.
Fast forward to last month. My mechanic buddy Steve, while doing the new head and exhaust manifold
called me and said he couldn't believe that my van passed smog 2 years ago... Because the EGR sensor connector to
the exhaust manifold was broken off.

Anyhow, that's one more thing you can add to your smog trouble-shooting checklist.
Good luck!

coronan

11-25-2013, 02:40 PM

Thanks T!
Its cool to see the TVP community migrating over here!

I had somone swap in an 89 engine and body harness for me after an engine fire.
Turns out the O2 sensor is not even plugged in.

What i believe is the receptecal for it is a 2 wire connector; hanging behind the battery. Did the 89 use a heated O2 sensor?
Is this the proper place to find the precat plug? Can i just jumper 1 of the wires for the 02 output?

coronan

11-25-2013, 03:41 PM

O2 sensors:
My book lists the 87 o2 sensor harness to be no color assigned.
The 89 harness lists a "sub o2 sensor" to be 1 brown, 1 black.
I couldn't find the primary in the wire diagram.
1181 1188
I have located the "sub " connector behind the battery.
1185
I also located a one wire harness connector in front of the battery (white wire, female connector) I think this is for primary o2 but but my 87 o2 sensor connector is also female.
1183 1184
I suppose the right thing to do is check continuity to the proper pin on the ECU.

coronan

11-25-2013, 03:53 PM

I wonder why my EGR modulator gets no vacuum???
1187
While this fixed my vacuum leak at the time it also rendered my EGR disfunctional.

I will run a longer hose so that it is not kinked. This will make the EGR function before the engine is warmed up. And save me a trip to Toyota. (How much does the stealer-ship want for a Thermostatic VSV Tim?)

timsrv

11-26-2013, 12:37 AM

Yeah, establish continuity from the ECU pin to the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor is close enough for you to even run a new wire without too much effort. It's been a few years since I purchased a BVSV, but I'm guessing they'll want around $50.

coronan

11-28-2013, 10:40 PM

Almost Done. I'll get the rest checked out next week.

The next thing you should check is codes. If there are any stored in the ECU these could be important clues. CEL - Code 5 = O2 sensor open circuit.

Things that can cause high CO are:

Dirty air filter - Cleaned November 2013
Bad TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) - Replaced December 2011 with used, Tested 11-27 Working
Bad O2 sensor -
Bad ECU temperature sensor - Is this on the ECU board???
Bad AFM (Air Flow Meter) - Replaced December 2011
A leaky injector -

Things that can cause high HC are:

Broken BVSV - Bypassed
Improper ignition timing -14* BDC shorted
Bad distributor cap - Looked good no Carbon Nov 2013
Bad rotor - Looked good no Carbon Nov 2013, replaced Feb 2013
Failing coil - Primary = 1.4k ohms Secondary = 9.0k ohms Both with in spec.
Failing plug wires = Replaced Dec 2011
Worn out spark plugs - Plugs color looked good, gap was 0.051, I cleaned and regapped to 0.048 hand have a little more power. I realize this is larger gap than OEM.
Vacuum leak(s) - Checked with carb cleaner and none by ear.
Failing catalytic converter - Cat has blueish color in side and i can see through the honey comb.

timsrv

11-29-2013, 12:55 AM

The open circuit on the O2 sensor is reason enough to fail the CO test, so get that worked out & it should solve your CO issue. The ECU is the engine computer (sits behind the the panel nearest to your left shoulder). An ECU can develop issues that lead to high CO, but since we know the O2 circuit is faulty I'd ignore that possibility for now (not likely anyhow). The possibility of a leaky injector is hard to check, and since we already know the O2 is messed up, I would ignore that for now too.

A bypassed BVSV might make the van run a bit rough when cold, but should not affect hot running or have a negative effect on emission testing (just make sure the van is hot & check that vacuum hose to make sure it isn't kinked). As for other possible causes of high HC, your timing isn't terrible, but it should be set to 12 deg BTDC (with the check engine connector jumped). Rechecking timing after the jumper is removed will tell you the electronic advance system is functioning correctly (should jump around 20 deg BTDC). If timing doesn't change, then the TPS could be at fault (not sending the correct idle signal to the ECU). With the TPS, adjustment is critical (a new TPS that's not adjusted correctly is no better than a bad TPS). If you don't know last time spark plugs were changed, then replace them. I prefer the Denso triple platinum plugs as these are OEM and are supposed to last 60k miles.

Cats fail due to being clogged up (running extended periods with open O2 sensor circuits can cause this :doh:). Internal damage such as broken ceramic mesh can also prevent the cat from doing it's job (but not as bad as having a clogged cat). One more thing to consider in the "vacuum leak" category is mixed up or improperly routed vacuum hoses. Check the vacuum hose schematic and verify they are going to the correct ports. Having high HC's due to low compression is not very common. Not much you can do about it anyhow (short of a full rebuild), so unless it's bad enough to make the van run rough, I'd probably ignore that and concentrate on the things you can fix. It sounds like you're well on your way to completing the list & I'm guessing it will pass once you're done. Good luck. Tim

Edit: The above information on timing only refers to 86 - 89 Toyota vans. For 84 - 85 vans, please refer to post #34 (this thread).

coronan

11-29-2013, 03:20 PM

Thanks Tim,
Smog Tests are expensive. I only want to do this once more.

Regarding the high HC:
The only thing I changed is the BVSV which powers the EGR. Hopefully This is enough.

Regarding High CO:
If i remember right O2 sensors are only $20. I may throw one at it for piece of mind.
I knew i was running in open loop; and hoped i was getting some needed extra power out of a richer mixture. I'm aware running old gas will foul the sensor. I'll check the voltage coming out of it.

I'm curious to see the spray pattern on the injectors after so many miles. I already have a jig made up to push injector cleaner through the injectors. This guy did a pretty good write up....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp-ECEpN52k

timsrv

11-29-2013, 03:47 PM

Thanks Tim,
Smog Tests are expensive. I only want to do this once more.............

CA must be quite different than WA. Here (in areas that require the test), the initial fee is $15 with 1 free retest (must be done within 365 days of 1st test). If it fails the 2nd test you can get a waver. Here's a copy/paste from the DMV.org website:

If your vehicle fails its emissions inspection, you will be required to have the vehicle repaired to bring it into compliance. However, there's a limit to how much money you have to spend on this. If you've spent more than $150 on repairs and you car still fails a retest, you might be eligible for a repair waiver.

FWIW, not only does a richer mixture make your engine run dirty, it also kills fuel economy and performance. Over time it will also kill your catalytic converter. In short, there is no good that comes from a bad O2 sensor.......except maybe avoiding the initial expense and hassle of getting it fixed, but in the end it will cost you more. Tim

PS: Testing injectors isn't too difficult. It's removing them from the van that sucks. If you go to that much trouble you should take them to a professional for cleaning/testing. Most places will charge around $80 for all 4. The other way is replacing with new, but I'd still want to have them tested to verify performance before installation. Tim

coronan

12-02-2013, 09:05 PM

Wow.
Major power loss after hooking up the O2, reset the ECU and cleaning the egr modulator.
There was a noticeable change of the exhaust when the egr was hooked up. Unhooking It brought some power back but not all.

timsrv

12-03-2013, 12:39 AM

:cnfsd::cnfsd::cnfsd::dizzy:

Burntboot

12-03-2013, 11:30 AM

Did they swap in the computer from the 89, when they did the harness/engine repairs?
How much of the harness was replaced?

skibum

12-04-2013, 01:56 PM

I went in for a smog test and had really high hydrocarbons. Turned out my catalytic converter was hollow. I had a new cat (California spec) installed and went back and had no hydrocarbons. I had it installed in Carson City, NV, for a couple hundred bucks. It also helped the "backdraft" fumes that I would get when the windows were down. What Tim said, too, I paid for the first test, but the second one was free. This was in South Lake Tahoe.

Good luck!

hikersteve

12-04-2013, 05:54 PM

hey just a note i was having trouble passing smog in ca and figured out that the smog guy was running it as 90's car instead of mid 80's truck.

this gives you about a 20 point cushion on hcs. and 10 on the other so check. some of the guys are pretty :cnfsd: so might want to make sure they are running as proper vehicle.

i did do alot of repairs in trying to pass, i had a malfunctioning egr and it was because the port coming off the air chamber(top of the engine) that feeds into egr was clooged. Had to remove and have cleaned. you cant poke it out because there is a sharp turn in the port. there is a plug that can be removed to clean out but it faces back of engine compartment so dont know if it is possible to do with air chamber on engine

also did o2 sensors, recomend getting oem, as universals are junk and arent plug n play. they are so bad when i went to get oem from oreilys cause the new ones made my van run terrible the gal that worked there refunded my money for universals, even though i had installed the parts and just threw them away right in front of me.

not sure if anyone brought these points up jst skimmed through thread

hope it helps

coronan

12-05-2013, 01:30 PM

I discovered a clogged hard line yesterday too. I tried to clean it with compressed air and carb cleaner, I even let the carb cleaner soak for an hour. It didnt want to budge. I bypassed it with extra rubber hose.

The pressure test on the EGR was very difficult. It's hard to tell if the controller breaths or not even blowing on the hose by mouth.
Does anyone else have experience with this test?

"INSPECTION OF EGR MODULATOR"
1208

I replaced the 02 sensor this morning with a bosch.

Unfornutately when I got tested for smog it was not done by a STAR station. Now the van has been labeled as a "gross poluter" and can only be tested by a star station.

Anyone considered registering their Van as a "CLASSIC VEHICLE"???

coronan

12-05-2013, 02:02 PM

According to the manual the EGR modulator applies 3" vacuum at 3500 rpm and high vacuum with the R port hooked strait to the manifold.
Mine does.

But the smog test is run at 2500 rpm. my egr will not be active.

Anyone else see a problem with this.
I'm confused.
:wall:

hikersteve

12-05-2013, 09:51 PM

so the actual port off air chamber was clogged on mine not just a line if. your egr is not workin or failing i would check that.
your post are from reno and your tryin to get smogged in CA??
if your talking about classic car in Ca forget it i dont even think they reached the seventies yet. in washington its 25 yrs then no emissions, but cali has some stupid system to figure out and when i asked at dmv, because i have a 84 carb. sr5 wagon the lady just laughed and said it was like 1967 or older wh ich wasnt any nominal timeframe like 20 25 or 30 years. I will try and get a pic to show you port i am talking about tomorrow

coronan

12-06-2013, 02:05 AM

EGR valve with vacuum applied kills the motor at idle = works
Egr modulator applies vacuum to egr valve at 3500 rpm = work
I'm not sure if it passed the pressure test.

I go for smog again tomorrow. I've tested everything but the cat. Universal Cats were cheap on Rock Auto.

I'm moving to CA. Believe me; I'd love to keep it in NV but it's not realistic.

The new O2 sensor helped improve power a lot. More power down low and all the way to 4500 rpm. (at least for the van)

I blew out all ports. The a hard line running to the BVSV was clogged.

I found out today in CA classic cars are only pre '75. :bdmd:

hikersteve

12-06-2013, 10:51 AM

ya i knew the year was ridiculous on classics, remember make sure they are running your van under mid 80's truck specs, seriously ask them what vehicle class they are running under, and dont tell them you got the cat in NV they will fail you straight away.make sure you drive a good 60 to 80 miles before you take it in. better nice and hot. make sure and put liquid wire on any exposed wires(end of fuel injectors, wires on front of engine or off of main harness) they will fail you for that to. where are you going for test. im in grass valley and rays radiator is a star location and one of the mechanics there had one of these vans in the past and he was cool about it. alot of times they will nit pick you on exposed wires and other little stuff because it is difficult to do a couple standard test (egr and such) on these vans.
My advice would be dont divulge any info about repairs you've done either (cat, o2) because anything they can do to not have to do test they will jump on. most mechanics/testers hate these vehicles because of engine location and the primitive computer which combined make them actually have to do "mechanical work"!
good luck

skibum

12-06-2013, 02:51 PM

I got a California cat in Nevada. It did come with a certification that I needed to give to the place doing the test. Ends up that since I'm a Minnesota resident with a California vacation home, I didn't have to even smog. Just make sure that if a Nevada shop put the cat in that you have the certificate.

coronan

12-08-2013, 11:28 AM

Getting a CA cat is tricky in NV. The only vendor that will sell one is Summit Racing and Oriley. Summit wanted only $93 for a Magnaflow. (MPE-334106) Everyone else wanted $130 to 200!

I know I have low compression. Which will cause high HC; but I don't have time for a rebuild right now.

skibum

12-08-2013, 01:17 PM

Here's a link to the shop that installed the cat for me. I had to call ahead, and the guy ordered the cat. It only cost me around $200, if I remember right (installed). The shop is on Hwy 50, on the way out of Carson City, heading toward Dayton. It's a bit of a drive from Reno, but I had a good experience at the shop. The place is called "Tires For You" and the link came from a "Carson City muffler shop" search.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=carson city muffler shop&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CIQBEKACMAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fplus.google.com%2F10775588862147 1898053%2Fabout%3Fhl%3Den%26socfid%3Dweb%3Alu%3Aun known%3Alocalgroupedresult%26socpid%3D1&ei=MrakUreNEov3rAGH7oGYAg&usg=AFQjCNF3vlfRiyPqjV-TZOO6-kkr_wLADg&sig2=vDIMt3W5v3YiT4Wz3iltkA&bvm=bv.57752919,d.aWc&cad=rjt

There's a Pick and Pull out there, too, so if your timing is good they sometimes have a TV there.

Good luck!

coronan

12-09-2013, 05:54 PM

Here is the new exhaust. I cut the header as close to the y pipe as possibl, adapted from 2" to 2.5", moved the cat forward 19"and maintained 2.5" to the rear axel, them necked back down to 2". Summit had everything for $160. It took 3 hours for me to fab in 15*f weather. Not bad.
1214

I have always felt the cat was too far rearward to receive hot gases. New cars literally have them wrapped around the motor.
I have maintained 2" clearance to the battery. And 1" to the transfer case. Heat shielding may be considered in the future. I'm not worried with the current temps.

Driving to work today it is noticeably quieter on the hi way. The glass pack muffler I already had in place was a little louder than preferable.

coronan

12-10-2013, 12:38 AM

@ sku bum:
Thats a pretty good deal! If i didnt have the capability to weld my own; I would do that route.

Ever notice the van doesn't use a flex pipe???
I noticed but was on a budget so, talked my self out of adding one. If hard pipe is good enough for stock, Its good enough for me.

skibum

12-10-2013, 08:30 AM

That's a nice looking set-up.

coronan

01-01-2014, 06:45 PM

I finally passed smog.

The moral of my story is its amazing what a new Catalytic Converter can take out of emissions. I should have done this first.

Here is the recap:
Back in November I failed smog with High CO and HCs Idle and 2500 RPM. I was basically double the limits.

Things that needed repair were the EGR and O2 sensor.

Next Test:
1239
Passed Idle emissions, Failed HC at 2500 rpm. Still a gross polluter.

Installed new cat:

Next Test
1238
Passed with flying colors!!!

madcow41

04-05-2014, 01:43 PM

this is just another reason why u gotta love TEXAS we don't have none of that crap to deal with from what I have read its a big hassel for any car I wish everyone the best wit this and hope it gets better to do this outthere

ToyotaVanNut

02-26-2015, 06:18 AM

Hi, I have to go in for Smog and a friend recommended putting in 91 (I usually put in the cheapest available, which is 87 here) but will changing it or mixing it hurt the van at all? I am in California where the smog test is apparently more strict! Any tips on passing it are beyond welcomed too!!

Burntboot

02-26-2015, 12:58 PM

Best way to pass emissions testing is to make sure then van is running well.

Check for stored codes.

If any repairs are pending (oil change,plugs, filters...) do it now.

When it comes time for testing I have found some benefit to running Seafoam in the fuel (as per directions on the can)
I have never had it hurt anything and it does seem to help.
YMMV.

ToyotaVanNut

02-27-2015, 03:10 AM

ToyotaVanNut

03-04-2015, 05:48 PM

Hi! So the Van (1985 Toyota LE) failed smog :( I was wondering if anyone had any tips. The only ways in which is failed was the rev was too high and that it was producing too much NO.

So my questions are, how can I turn down the idle?

How can I produce less NO? Any tips or tricks or special ways to pass would be greatly appreciated!

For the NO, I was going to try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jVYZaY-Jj4
but, we do not have that open port on the van, correct?

Doctor Injector

03-09-2015, 02:34 AM

I have many customers send me there fuel injectors because they are running lean and uneven, which can and alot of time does lead to high nox.

I know of a van owner who failed the ca smog test on the dyno because it idled to high in gear so they applied the E-brake and that lowered the RPM so they could pass the test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq-0oqv5On4

originalkwyjibo

03-09-2015, 03:21 PM

I used to always reach back and turn on the rear heater fan while they weren't looking. This brought the idle down just enough to pass the Washington test. Not an issue after I replaced my TPS though and now I'm exempt.

ToyotaVanNut

03-13-2015, 01:16 AM

Hello,

I have failed smog today for the 2nd time with the 1985 Toyota Van. It is a high NOx problem. The first test was $48, this second one was $40 and when it failed it was a $60 diagnostic. They said it was a bad EGR system and offered to buy a bunch of parts and fix it for a grand total of $600 and 3 days.

I cannot afford this and I also am about to leave on a mandatory trip around the Southwestern US tomorrow at noon, so in about 14 hours. I am in California. The highest allowed for NOx is somewhere around 1000, and I'm at 1900.

Does anyone have ANY tips for passing NOx? I will literally do anything, but I need to get it passed so I can leave.

Another question: if I don't pass, will it be one fix it ticket? Will I be okay driving around 7 states for the next 16 days, or will my van be impounded?

Thank you for ANY help. If there is some secret trick just PM me privately, ANY help is appreciated.

Burntboot

03-13-2015, 09:26 AM

Have you checked for stored codes?

timsrv

03-15-2015, 06:42 AM

:whs:. Always check codes 1st. Failed EGR operation is the most common cause of high NOx. On the van, it's likely you have a broken BVSV (Bimetal Vacuum Switching Valve). If the nipples are broken off, a temporary fix can be to bypass using a short piece of vacuum line. The 1st picture shows location, the 2nd picture shows one that's bypassed. If yours is broken and if you bypass, make sure the vacuum hose can make the turn without kinking. The one in the 2nd picture is kinked or on the verge of kinking. If the hose kinks, it will not allow EGR operation. Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Engine/IMG_2266_zps8c3c96ef.jpg

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1187

BoostinBen

08-17-2016, 01:10 PM

I just went to check my BVSV .. and while I'm not sure it was actually leaking until I touched it.. it snapped right off, you weren't kidding about them getting brittle :doh:

So is it ok to bypass it as shown in this thread? I am assuming it only means that the EGR will operate white the engine is cold as well as once warmed up .. any downside to this bypass? or should I spend the 40 bucks on a new one????

coronan

08-17-2016, 01:13 PM

I have been running the EGR all the time for 2 years.

My van runs fine cold and hot. Winter and summer.

Dnice

03-07-2017, 06:27 PM

Hi all,
Recently my van was running poorly. I replaced the plugs, wires, rotor, and distributor cap which made the van run great. I was going to replace the TPS but never got to it.
Soon after, I took it in to get smogged and it passed- with the exception of the timing. They said it was off. Hmmm. Ok.

So I took it to a service place by my house. They readjusted it (and said it was a PITA and that I got off easy with their original quote of $100) and I drove back to smog.
Smog guy passed it and I took it home. Problem is, it doesn't run as good as it did before the timing adjustment. When its cold it runs really bad- no power, lag, hesitiation, etc. But when its warm, not great either. I feel like it runs through the gears really fast and it has very little pick up off the line. I have to hammer the throttle to get it to move and there is little to no snap in the acceleration.

So, is this likely an issue with the timing? Maybe the guys didnt set it right?
What about the TPS? Would this make a difference if I replaced it? Does setting the timing with a bad one require a resetting of timing with a new one?
And finally, can this be done easily at home? Not sure I want to pay another $100 or more if I can do it in a few hours at home (timing that is).

Thanks for any and all help,

Dennis

JPERL

03-07-2017, 09:51 PM

Dnice

03-08-2017, 10:40 AM

The base timing will not be correct if the TPS is faulty. I recently just went threw something similar. Mine is 1989

I cannot figure out how you passed smog if the timing was incorrect since my smog test was an automatic failure for being 15 degrees too advanced and it too ran great with the timing advanced however it would not pass smog because of the timing being advanced which produced High N0x gases. The Van failed on incorrect timing and High N0x. Hydrocarbons were actually really good

In order to pass smog they had to retard the timing to 8 degrees BTDC which is in spec, however my Van ran like how you described your van, low power, except mine ran like crap with the timing set correctly in my case.

In order for my Van to run well the timing has to be advanced 15 degrees and so I suspect there is something with the distributor, but since the workaround has been advancing the timing I will stick with it as I am getting no detonation , no pinging and no noises. When its time for smog again, I just retard the timing again

My van passed all of the emissions related stuff but failed due to the timing being off. I assume the timing was off since I had changed the distributor cap and rotor. Then the guys in the shop timed it with a faulty TPS and that led to the poor performance?

JPERL, do you think if I replace the TPS and have the timing adjusted, the van will run well and be within spec to pass smog? Is it difficult to do the timing myself? Thanks for the help!

JPERL

03-08-2017, 07:10 PM

If you did not remove the distributor itself or loosen the mounting bolt to rotate it, the timing was not impacted by replacing the cap and rotor wires, etc. Highly unlikely.

A bad TPS will cause the following

Hesitation or poor acceleration
Bad MPG
Ignition timing being off
Surging or hunting idle (sometimes stalls) Surging is where the idle rises and falls repeatedly and will stall when the idle falls to low before surging upwards again
Quick deceleration can cause stalling usually a red flag that something is up with the TPS because it is slow to respond to the fact that the throttle has closed and the fuel cut signal to the PCM is late

the TPS is not that expensive but is absolutely crucial that it is adjusted correctly otherwise an incorrectly adjusted brand new TPS will cause the same symptoms as an old bad TPS. I would replace the TPS if the history is unknown being that the TPS is one of those items commonly overlooked. Many times unnecessary ignition components are replaced to remedy a TPS issue on an old vehicle.

Get the TPS addressed first because a bad TPS creates domino effect symptoms such as bad timing, poor acceleration, hesitation etc..

Timing is not hard to set. What makes it hard is locating the timing marks especially if the timing cover is caked in oil and grime.

You need a timing light (cheap one about 25 bucks)
a wrench to loosen the distributor to turn it to adjust timing
a jumper wire to short terminals T and E1

Dnice

03-09-2017, 10:22 AM

Thanks! Gonna replace the TPS and go from there.
I will post results when I get it done.

helena

03-21-2018, 06:07 PM

After moving with my van from Manitoba to California I am almost ready to brave the smog test. I have held off on getting it done while figuring out an idle problem that would have guaranteed failure. Now that I've finally got her idling for cold starts there seems to be nothing else major that would effect it. Since we do not have smog tests in Manitoba I am unsure of what other components I should test before bothering to bring it in. What maintenance/ repairs/ component testing can anyone recommend for helping my chances of passing?

PNW vanwagon

03-21-2018, 07:22 PM

can't help with CA smog specifically as i'm in oregon. but i have seen a few youtube videos that have very good tips and tricks for getting temporary really clean emissions readings by tweaking a few things and using some fuel additives.

meh

03-21-2018, 09:39 PM

The good thing about smog in CA (I am from Texas originally, where they don't have smog tests) is that you can go and get a test done. If you don't pass a certain requirement, you can fix it, go back to where you smogged it and they will retest it free of charge (within a certain amount of time). You only have to pay for the initial test. Just a thought.

bikerjosh

03-22-2018, 10:36 AM

Also if you are worried about it passing, some places you can have them do a "pre-test" to get readings. Basically they don't transmit the findings or log you into a database. I have done this in the past when I was pretty sure a car wouldn't pass, but didn't want the "gross emitter" tag attached to the record until I could fix it.

JPERL

03-22-2018, 07:49 PM

Vans generally pass smog more often than they fail. Owning many of these over the last 30 years, The most I have had to replace to get a passed inspection, was the catalyst and the EGR modulator. But that was in only 2 out of 5 Vans. If the vehicle was reasonably maintained you should pass relatively easy.

2 important Items

Make sure your Van idles at the correct RPM. For example, If it idles at 1K rpm it will not pass the visual inspection, regardless of whether it is putting out emissions within range.

Ignition Timing is very important. If the Timing is too advanced that will raise your NoX emissions

Misformary

04-01-2018, 10:07 PM

What is the TPS?
Thanks for the help!

SoORYotas

04-01-2018, 11:16 PM

This is the Throttle Position Sensor located on the back side of the Throttle Body. Throttle Body is the device attached on the passenger side to the intake manifold and on the drivers side to the black flexible rubber hose connected to the Mass Air Sensor and that to the Air Filter. Beck-Arnley (Italy) is the best replacement as this is NLA Toyota stock. Tim has posted several threads and videos on how to clean Throttle Body and then mate and set up the TPS to the Throttle body. Search!

Dnice

05-08-2018, 02:36 PM

Quick Update. So one year later, it’s back to the smog shop. Once again, passes smog but the timing failed. Van still running poorly and I just want to get it registered. I decided to finally replace the TPS. Was actually pretty easy, I did it without fully removing the throttle body-but of course didn’t get to clean it either. But having two kids and a busy life makes for quick repairs. Anyway, van was running better now that the TPS was replaced. Took it to a shop where the guy was familiar with the vans to get it timed. I got a good price since I took out the passenger seat and access panel for him. He said the timing was retarded way too much. Previous guys probably didn’t know what they were doing and didn’t jump the plug when setting it. He set it to spec and WOW! I forgot that the van ever ran this great. Smooth starts and no lag on acceleration- even when cold. Runs through the gears and shifts when it should. So much power and speed that wasn’t there before. I’m in love all over again. I’ve had this van for a while and don’t really drive it much, I think it’s time to do some more work on it and get it on some adventures.

So if your van needs timing, make sure the TPS is good and take it somewhere that knows what they’re doing (if u can’t do it yourself).
Thanks.

Mojoworkin

05-19-2018, 12:21 PM

Sooo.... What's the deal with buying a vehicle out of state and bringing it to California?

Reg'ing does not seem to be a problem, but what about smog stuff? If it was not a car originally destined for the Golden State, does it need all the bits and pieces and pass the tests?

What of it?

Thanks!

RG

SoORYotas

05-20-2018, 02:53 AM

Rg,

IF it was built for Calif. specs it should be good. The state of tune will define whether it passes the state testing or not. There are some threads about meeting CA emissions standards. Good thing is if the vehicle you are buying fails I believe the vehicle can be turned to a junkyard for $1500.00 from the state of CA. My comments based on other posts on this site about CA vehicles. Good luck!

theojo

07-27-2018, 01:30 PM

Hey Tim long time.

does your statement to jump the connector apply to 1984 as well? I just had my smog done and the tech showed me that in his book it does not say to do that. Nor on the sticker. It says 8 BTDC with vacuum hoses removed from distributor and sealed. So it was 20 degrees advanced doing it his way with out the plug jumped and I had to pay him extra to retard it to 8. Although if I recall where I used to take it they did it with it jumped And I haven’t touched the distributor in the past 2 years. Now the acceleration is anemic and it dies at idle until it warms up.

The open circuit on the O2 sensor is reason enough to fail the CO test, so get that worked out & it should solve your CO issue. The ECU is the engine computer (sits behind the the panel nearest to your left shoulder). An ECU can develop issues that lead to high CO, but since we know the O2 circuit is faulty I'd ignore that possibility for now (not likely anyhow). The possibility of a leaky injector is hard to check, and since we already know the O2 is messed up, I would ignore that for now too.

A bypassed BVSV might make the van run a bit rough when cold, but should not affect hot running or have a negative effect on emission testing (just make sure the van is hot & check that vacuum hose to make sure it isn't kinked). As for other possible causes of high HC, your timing isn't terrible, but it should be set to 12 deg BTDC (with the check engine connector jumped). Rechecking timing after the jumper is removed will tell you the electronic advance system is functioning correctly (should jump around 20 deg BTDC). If timing doesn't change, then the TPS could be at fault (not sending the correct idle signal to the ECU). With the TPS, adjustment is critical (a new TPS that's not adjusted correctly is no better than a bad TPS). If you don't know last time spark plugs were changed, then replace them. I prefer the Denso triple platinum plugs as these are OEM and are supposed to last 60k miles.

Wrapping the exhaust with stuff won't change things. Cats fail due to being clogged up (running extended periods with open O2 sensor circuits can cause this :doh:). Internal damage such as broken ceramic mesh can also prevent the cat from doing it's job (but not as bad as having a clogged cat). One more thing to consider in the "vacuum leak" category is mixed up or improperly routed vacuum hoses. Check the vacuum hose schematic and verify they are going to the correct ports. Having high HC's due to low compression is not very common. Not much you can do about it anyhow (short of a full rebuild), so unless it's bad enough to make the van run rough, I'd probably ignore that and concentrate on the things you can fix. It sounds like you're well on your way to completing the list & I'm guessing it will pass once you're done. Good luck. Tim

timsrv

07-28-2018, 03:53 AM

Hi theojo :), Yes, it's been a long time :yes: Glad you found your way back.......even if only for a short while. The advice to which you refer was given to the owner of an 87 van, but I should have stated it only applies to 86 - 89 vans. Jumping the "Check Engine Connector" disables the Electronic Timing Advance (which is necessary to properly set timing on vehicles so equipped). Since 84 - 85 vans used the older style vacuum advance, jumping the connector is not necessary.

As you correctly pointed out, you would pull the vacuum line to the diaphragm on the distributor and plug it.........then set and/or check the timing (with that line plugged). It's also recommended to verify engine is idling @ 950 RPM or below while checking/setting the timing. To verify the advance is working, after the timing is set/locked @8° BTDC, reconnect the vacuum line and check again to verify it jumps up to ~ 20° BTDC. Tim

theojo

07-28-2018, 09:00 AM

Yeah I should lurk on here at least more often and help out the newbies as you do. It’s just that my van so rarely needs help that I have no need.

Younare of course correct as I read in the FSM after my initial post. Perhaps the fellow failed to disconnect the vacuum tubes in his initial test since he got exactly 20 and it had been running fine. I’ll check that.

thanks

LightBlueToy

08-29-2018, 07:52 PM

I think I am having a similar smog / timing issue. Van has been running fine. Smog place failed the van due to the timing being at TDC instead of the van spec of 12 degrees. The actual emissions numbers were good, I have a new cat from 6 or so months ago. I paid them to adjust the timing and redo the smog test and it passed. But now i can hear the engine making a raquet/pinging? underneah me in every gear. Should I just pay someone to put it back to TDC for the next two years? I don't have a timing light.

I also have a new TPS from about 6 months ago, don't think its related because the van has been running fine.

Burntboot

08-30-2018, 01:35 PM

LBT - You should just go buy a timing light, they have become quite inexpensive in the last 10 years.

Sadly, things like setting timing, adjusting carbs or doing house plumbing with copper, are all "things of the past" and many of the current practitioners are not well versed in the "old ways".

originalkwyjibo

08-30-2018, 03:48 PM

Keep in mind there have been a few people that have had harmonic balancers that have rotated which moves the timing mark from it's correct location. If the inspections are looking at correct timing based purely on that mark than your timing may in fact have been correct even though the tech and your timing mark say it isn't.

boogieman

08-30-2018, 04:39 PM

LightBlueToy

08-30-2018, 06:00 PM

man, i feel sorry for you cali guys...damn van passes emissions and they still mess with you...dont you have to remove the passenger side engine access panel to even shoot a timing gun on the harmonic balancer?!?

The first time they failed me was because the hose coming off the air boot that originally went to the A/C idle up diapgragm was plugged with a bolt. My van didn't have A/C when I bought nor does it now. The smog guy said it was EGR on the printout. Saw that after he told me it failed of course. When I said I didnt think that hose was emissions repated he started talking about how the state is cracking down and giving citations. I wasnt mad at the guy. Just the whole situation. The second time I went back is when he said the timing was off. So I had to drive there 3 times total, polluting all the more, take off work, pay more, be punished for not being able to afford a car from 2015. I wish I hadn't forgot about that damn hose at least.

Its not like I WANT to pollute or think its all a sham, but it starts to feel like a slap in the face over and over after a while. By the way, my hydrocarbon numbers went up and almost made ir fail smog the second time after they fussed with the timing.:doh:

bikerjosh

10-16-2018, 01:29 AM

Burntboot

10-16-2018, 09:24 AM

Glad I don't live in Cali.

Considering that we never cared about evap systems till '95 it seems bizarre that they even bother looking at that side of things.
How the heck do they even test that system?
All that said, there isn't much to check.
If it were me, I would pull the top of the air filter box and get in behind it with a mirror and light and see if you can get a look at the topside of the canister.

Granted you don't live in the rust belt so may not apply, but from underneath mine looked brand new, topside where the alum cap attaches to the steel body was an entirely different story
Worth taking a look.
BB

Sperrunner

07-20-2019, 07:09 PM

I been trying to get my van legal to pass smog but seem to be having a hard time. ive done a very basic tune up on the van ie plugs, air filter, fuel filter, fresh fluids. And tried to smog but failed horribly. Nox was way to high as well as the HC fluctuates anywhere from 15-2000. tech said timing and idle is off. Well i got the timing set to 12° but its till idles in about the 800-900 range. It all spits put the exhaust. After doing so the nox has come down to acceptable ranges and passes at idle and 15mph but is still to high at 25mph.

I dont feel like its the convertor due to the fact servers recorders show its only a few years old. I feel like it has something to do with either egr or the o2 sensor but im kinda stumped.
Ive tried blowing out the egr and it seems clear though i did get alot of dust out of one line. Also I found the bvsv has broken off and has been by passed.

My next step is to replace the o2 sensor I guess and try running some injector cleaner though the engine to see if that helps. But idk where to go from there if it doesn’t

VanCo

07-21-2019, 10:39 AM

bikerjosh

07-21-2019, 10:51 AM

Ok, after calls to half a dozen smog places and getting turned down, with excuses from pre 90’ cars are too tough to get an accurate rpm reading, to people knowing these vans or rather how to access the motor and denying it out right I found someone local.
Took my van in today, and getting everything dialed in went through the test, passed the sniffer, rolling test, got to evap test and failed. Tech explained it was losing pressure somewhere between filler neck of gas tank and pipe to charcoal canister.
Looked (searched, but no success) in forum any ideas what is causing van to fail? Tech says it is either leak at filler neck, somewhere on tank or the rubber hose from tank to charcoal canister.
thanks

Realized, I never updated this post. I pulled an evap canister from a van at PnP and removed all the hard & soft lines from fuel filler to tank and then from tank to canister. Pressure tested hard lines, and replaced all the soft lines. Passed no problems.

@Sperrunner , i have had cars that were tough to pass before and might have some ideas. Feel free to PM me. Learned some tricks from Corvette forums.

Sperrunner

07-21-2019, 11:20 AM

Can you post a pic of the numbers on the smog sheet?

The catalytic converters on these vans are set way back. If the replacement cat isn't OEM quality it won't heat up properly, and won't last. I run fiberglass header wrap from the manifold collector all the way to the cat. This helps keep the cat hot, and working properly. I originally did this for smog reasons and it helped tremendously.
I dont have the original sheets on me but at 25mpg my nox was about 3800. After a tune up and proper timing i got the nox to about 1500 at 25 mpg. Which is the speed im worried about rn because at 15mpg im now in acceptable ranges.

As for the cat it looks after market judging by it being welded in. And its sits above 23rd the way back in the exhaust system.

Sperrunner

07-21-2019, 11:23 AM

Realized, I never updated this post. I pulled an evap canister from a van at PnP and removed all the hard & soft lines from fuel filler to tank and then from tank to canister. Pressure tested hard lines, and replaced all the soft lines. Passed no problems.

@Sperrunner , i have had cars that were tough to pass before and might have some ideas. Feel free to PM me. Learned some tricks from Corvette forums.
I passed the evap test. But im failing due to nox. And I think it had something to do with the engine not running perfectly. I can’t actually get the engine to idle at 750 with 12° of timing.it idles like 850. Its also popping out the exhaust.

VanCo

07-21-2019, 11:45 AM

If your HC and CO are good at both 15 and 25 then it would seem the engine is running efficient.

NOx emissions are effected by increased cylinder temperatures. Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) helps by reducing cylinder temps, as does proper ignition timing. Another obvious way to reduce inside cylinder temperatures is to keep the engine cool at the proper operating temperature.

In order to reduce emissions even further (once it is established that the engine is running properly) a catalytic converter is used. When the cat is heated, the various metals and precious metals react with harmful emissions and convert them into less harmful emissions. A properly working and heated cat can clean up the emissions of even a poorly running engine. This is why (for emissions reasons) it is important to make the engine run perfect before condemning the cat.

If your engine temp, EGR, and timing are good, I would suspect the cat. If its legal in CA I would try the header wrap on the exhaust prior to getting a new cat. Just my two cents.

Sperrunner

07-21-2019, 12:03 PM

VanCo

07-21-2019, 12:09 PM

Yeah, fix the EGR system. Sounds like it isn't functioning. I like seafoam, works great. Replacing the O2 won't hurt, but if your HC, and CO are good I would guess it's not needed (replacing them periodically is good insurance anyhow). I used a narrowband O2 gauge to monitor mine, cheap and shows you how fast it's responding.

Sperrunner

07-21-2019, 12:16 PM

VanCo

07-21-2019, 12:44 PM

I know you've covered some of these, I'm just listing everything I can think of.

Idle pop, and random high idle HC:

Cap, rotor, wires, timing
Vacuum leak
Computer doesn't know it's idling, check TPS
Slow O2
Bad carbon build up, slow drip the seafoam into a vacuum line like an IV

High NOx at speed:
Timing too advanced
EGR
Catalytic converter

You may also want to make sure your timing marks are correct on your balancer.

jfenwick

06-21-2020, 02:52 PM

Getting into trouble with CA smog here on my 1984 Toyota Van.
It didn't pass. It barely failed on NO, and it was smoking. It also has smelled weird for a while.
It appears to be burning oil. The smog guys said I should do a compression test and a cylinder leakdown test. The valve guides might be messed up.
Other people have said the rings might be worn out. Of course I want to fix all that stuff, but unfortunately I don't have much time left before the certification needs to be renewed.
I guess what is happening is oil is leaking into the exhaust.
I put some 91 in the engine and the Guaranteed to Pass stuff. I'm going to drive it on the highway a lot and try to burn through the whole tank and see if that cleans it up.
I also picked up the Lucas Fuel System Cleaner but I haven't put that in yet.
I also had someone tell me you could cut the cat off and clean it, but other people have told me that won't work, it's not like, a reusable component. I can weld so if it's actually something to try I could.
Of course I want to take the whole engine apart and fix the leak, but I need to get this to pass with the time I have left.
Anyone have some input? Are all those weird cleaning additives like Guaranteed to Pass and Lucas BS?
Or does anyone want to buy this thing? Because if I can't fix this I might have to junk it.

JPERL

06-21-2020, 03:30 PM

run 20-50W. I have been using this in my high mileage vans for 30 years. What is the mileage? If your engine runs rough or stalls I would do a compression check. If you have readings below 100PSI in any cylinder that cylinder is effectively dead and not burning the fuel mixture and that being dumped into the exhaust will raise your NOX emissions. Start with Cylinder 4. My 3Y failed the emissions like yours is doing (back in 1993)and I had 90PSI in cylinder 4. Got to the point I had to feather the throttle to keep it running

theojo

06-21-2020, 04:53 PM

I’m in CA with an 84. Mine doesn’t smoke but runs very rich. You can smell it at idle. Yet it passed 2 years ago with a CARB legal Catalytic Convertor that I got from Rock Auto for around $200. Also the rich smell went away. Until I changed it back to the old CC 3 days later knowing it would be destroyed by the unburned hydrocarbons. I’m pretty sure my original injectors need cleaning. Poor gas mileage.

some places check the smoke more than others. My guy revs it and then runs around to the back to check. So try 50 weight For the smoke and a new cat for the Nox.

edit. Unfortunately the only CARB cat they have now is $436 at RockAuto

jfenwick

06-22-2020, 11:17 PM

Oh man everything has been so hectic, it was actually the HC it failed on and I wrote that wrong a couple posts back.
Ok I switched it to 20W-50. I've been trying to burn through the whole tank of 91 before I go back.
I might also clean the MAF sensor before I go back.

Diy2k

06-23-2020, 01:28 AM

On the same boat. Ordered an 02 sensor , tps sensor, egr gasket,Air filter,and plan on cleaning the TB. If all else fails I’ll get the CAT cut off and have a universal one welded. The Magnaflow is anywhere from $110-150, plus a weld job for 50$ at a local place.

I’ll update you guys once all the work is done.

JPERL

06-23-2020, 01:57 AM

yeah that makes more sense that if you are burning oil your HC emissions will go up. Don't bother with higher octane I have never seen that make a difference in our vans. I might even go as far as suggest one of those Lucas treatments where it thickens the oil unless you notice a significant difference running the 20w-50 if it still smokes with 20w-50 you have nothing to lose adding the Lucas oil treatment to get one more smog pass out of the engine. In another 2 years if you want to keep the van you may want to consider a new engine or another van. I would do a seafoam treatment through the intake to get rid of as much carbon as possible

theojo

06-23-2020, 09:49 AM

If you do eventually need the Cat make sure it is for California. The cheapest one Magnaflow I see for CA is $360 for a universal. I’d go with the direct fit from RockAuto in that case for $430. The smog tech will definitely check the number on the new cat.

Diy2k

06-23-2020, 12:13 PM

https://www.amazon.com/MagnaFlow-447206-Universal-Catalytic-Converter/dp/B007C800XU

How about this one?

theojo

06-23-2020, 04:38 PM

If it’s what it says it is. It should have the Carb # stamped on the shell. If not you can return. Hot exhaust has the Magnaflows much higher.

Diy2k

07-09-2020, 12:47 PM

Hey guys!

I’ve been calling and doing nothing but research on the CAT for the past two weeks. I did happen to find one that is approved and cheap. On top of that it’s from Autozone so they crossed referenced numbers and verified it fits.

https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/catalytic-converter-california/ap-universal-catalytic-converter-california/368799_1161171_0_234589

jfenwick

07-09-2020, 02:02 PM

Just make sure you have access to welding equipment!
I got quoted $450 for replacing a CAT so it makes sense there would be one cheaper than what is on Rock Auto.

theojo

07-09-2020, 08:08 PM

Order # D-280-94 will work. It’s listed in the Carb database for 84 Van. $120 At AZ is a good deal.

MY order for the direct fit was d-193-105

ChetsJug

12-17-2020, 12:18 AM

timsrv

12-17-2020, 02:58 PM

Why do you think California neighbors Oregon and Arizona have 2-year registration? So Californians only have to go every other year to either smog ther car or or pick a county with no smog and get one of those PO Box business address to send your mail to. they will forward it to your house when it comes in you just drive to Arizona register your car & go home. Az & Or insurance is a lot cheaper too.
home

I'm not sure what the penalty would be or even if they look for this sort of thing (regarding smog), but I do know they hunt people down who do this for reasons of tax evasion. I realize that these vans are not worth a lot, so perhaps it's not an issue, but, when it comes to having a PO box in another state (simply for vehicle registration) can be risky. I work in the RV industry and some of the vehicles I work on are very expensive (some north of $200k). I personally know of 2 different customers that are WA residents who got busted for doing that. Both had gotten PO boxes in OR so they could they could register vehicles there to evade WA state sales tax. Big mistake. The penalties for this are huge and both parties suffered greatly. I'm not saying this will happen, nor am I making any recommendations. I'm simply saying that doing this type of thing can raise a red flag and put you at risk. Tim

theojo

12-21-2020, 02:04 PM

I’ll confirm Chet on this. I’ve done both.

Was living in SF around ‘74. 67 bug. The state came out with a law that I needed a PCV. So drove it up to Oregon and registered using friends address.

Currently my DL address is SF but use a PO Box in a non enhanced zone for reg to avoid having dyno test and NOX smog test.

Topic at hand. Got it smogged 3 weeks ago. Knew it would fail badly. Can smell unburned HC at idle and mpg sucks. But it’s my workhorse and I currently just don’t have the time to remove
the throttle plenum and replace injectors. So again temporarily replaced the original 370K cat with the new CARB one mentioned in earlier post. Passed with 0.0 CO at both idle and 2500 speed test. Idle HC 10, 2500 speed 6. They allow 150/180. So that’s on a 30 mile round trip CAT in 2 years time. Should last my lifetime.

I’m sure the penalty is severe for these things but when you live in a state with never ending new rules and regs there are not enough enforcers to catch all the scofflaws. And hopefully like in Wash only go after the big boys.

theojo

12-03-2021, 09:45 PM

Just wanted to edit my last post. I donÂ’t need a smog for another year but it will be an informative experience and I will of course advise here.

Because after many years of very poor gas mileage and a terrible smelling rich mixture coming from the tailpipe, I finally figured it out. It was actually from the advice of the mechanic who did the last smog. He couldnÂ’t figure out why it passed so cleanly yet ran so poorly. If you read my last post you know why. Anyway he suggested a vacuum leak. So after a year I had a little time yesterday.

So with a can of acetone carb cleaner I sprayed all the hoses. Only place that caused an increase in RPMs was near the EGR. Particularly where it connected to the intake. And that was it!!! The gasket had turned to brittle, thin, black paper with a small section missing. When I had cleaned out the carbon blocked EGR around 20 years ago, knowing me didnÂ’t put in a new gasket. Now it runs like an actual car. Not some big gas guzzling truck. IÂ’m sure some of you know the feeling when you get your baby back!

So hereÂ’s the deal. Evidently a very small leak near the EGR location, or perhaps anywhere, is just enough to not throw a code or cause stumbling or erratic idle but tell the computer to pump gas into the cylinders.

Now back on topic. Next November when the smog is due, IÂ’ll keep my old catalytic converter in place rather than swapping it for the day. Just to see how much abuse from raw gas an original 35 year old converter can take. It sure smells clean now.

timsrv

12-04-2021, 03:50 AM

That always puts a lasting smile on my face when I finally solve an annoying problem.........especially when it's one I've been living with for a long time. It's easy to convince yourself you're dealing with something complex and then put it off indefinitely, only to eventually find out later it's something simple. When these vans run good they are a real joy. It's amazing how much difference there can be in driving pleasure with some simple, easily corrected issues. I once drove without power steering for ~ 2 years. When I finally took the time to address the issue it ended up being a stupid o-ring and power steering pump actually still worked when I put fluid back in the system after repair. I had let it run dry for ~ 30k miles :dizzy:. I still remember how much I started loving the van again after I finally got off my ass and fixed it. :thmbup:

theojo

12-04-2021, 12:14 PM

Tim. Exactly I had foreseen removing the plenum and all to repair the injectors. Imagine if I had done that to to no avail? Compounded the depression.

However last year I had actually put a fuel pressure gauge on the rail and monitored the drop as I activated each injector individually and saw identical readings. No leak down etc. So didnÂ’t go there.

This time I was fortunate to be able to remove the EGR tube at the exhaust with an open end wrench so could pull the EGR with the tube attached up and out. They should make a tool for that. Kind of like an O2 sensor tool.

8/83 is my manufacture date. That is coming up on 39 years! In the movie ,Pretty Woman, there is one identical to mine, maroon, on Rodeo Drive. They were a big deal back then among the rich and famous evidently. Now just among a club of us greasy DIYers.

Ian R.

02-16-2023, 11:16 PM

Hello All, I recently moved back to California from Oregon and needed to get my 1988 5spd 4x4 California Emissions Van smoged. It failed:no:. Below are the test results.

11963

The way I interpreted the results are it failed the 15 mph test for NO. I was with my kids at the shop and was distracted when the gentleman was explaining the results.

Here are the things I have done to the van in the last 2 months preparing for the smog test: compression check 160 PSI on all for cylinders, replaced TPS and set it properly with multimeter, replaced coil, rotor, cap, wire, spark plugs, air filter, FPR, set timing to 12' BTDC with check engine terminal jumped (when removed it jumps to 20' BTDC).

About five years ago I replaced the catalytic converter (not a CA cat) and both O2 sensors in Oregon and it has about 5000 miles on it since.

The van runs good (average 21 mpg) but not perfect, it feels like it has a slight miss at idle (~900 rpm). If I try to lower the RPM to 800 with the idle adjust screw it runs rough (shakes). My thought is it has to do with the EGR system by looking at the service manual and way it failed smog and the symptoms it is having. I am trying to diagnose what part needs servicing. Reading the steps to check the EGR system I am a little hung up on the below set.

11964

It says to connect the R port directly to the intake manifold with another hose. I am not sure which port to use. I removed and caped the hose that connects the highlighted filter below and attached it there. The engine did not start miss firing. I also used the same port to applying vacuum to EGR Valve in the next step. The engine did not run rough or die. I am doing this wrong? When I apply vacuum to the EGR valve with a large syringe connect to a piece of hose I can hear/feel the valve moving inside.

11965

The EGR Vacuum modulator and BVSV check out. The van does not have cooling issues and reads just above 1/4 on the temp gauge, but I dont know if that correlates to the combustion temperature not being too hot creating access NO.

Any pointers on how to do this test properly? Thanks again! Since moving back to california working on the van has been my only real hobby. Which is why I have been back on TVT..:rol:

Headhunter38

02-18-2023, 05:12 PM

Your catalytic converter is probably worn out or clogged. I just went through this last year with my van to get it to pass ca smog. All the emissions systems were working as normal but it wouldn't pass smog until I put a new cat on. My van had similar emissions numbers as you did and similar mileage, really high nox and barely too much on the others. Take your cat off and look at the internals look for clogs or damage to the honeycomb structure. If it's the original one it's gonna be real tough to get off so start with some cycles of soaking the bolts with penetrating oil and driving the van around.

Ian R.

02-20-2023, 10:14 PM

Thanks headhunter38 for the tips! The cat is on this of possible suspects, I did replace it five years ago but with a none CA cat in Oregon. (I don’t know if a none ca cat matters). They just are so expensive I was going to wait till all other potential sources of the issue are sussed out.

I have a new erg gasket coming in the mail this week. I plan to take the erg off to inspect and clean. maybe the gasket is shot or the tube is plugged. Wish me luck!:LOL2:

Gareth

02-21-2023, 12:57 PM

You probably got lucky that you passed the visual with a non-CA cat. You may not be so lucky in future years (or even on your re-test), so at some point you may need to replace it anyway with a CARB compliant cat.

Ian R.

02-22-2023, 10:29 AM

Most likely the next visit, as I mentioned to the tech that I had changed the cat in Oregon recently. haha hopefully not...

Ian R.

02-22-2023, 10:59 AM

Any pointers on what port to run the vacuum lines to apply vacuum to the EGR in the second image of post #95? Thanks!

theojo

02-23-2023, 05:03 PM

to test the egr lift hose going to top of egr from side of black plastic cylinder at idle and suck on it. engine should die. if it doesn't, clogged port in intake . I had that when I first bought mine in 2000. doubt if it is egr gasket. mine had a very slight tear in it and caused computer to pump out excess hydrocarbons at all times.

my 2018 direct fit carb cat from rock auto for $250. must have been a close out. now $1400. although welded carb cat is $250.

got these results. although I'm not in a Nox testing area

Ian R.

02-23-2023, 10:04 PM

Thanks Theojo! After doing this it did not affect how the engine ran. It would seem that either the EGR is stuck closed or clogged. With the engine off, and sucking on a tube attached to the port, I can hear the diagram moving inside the EGR. I got the EGR gasket in today. So this weekend I'll attempt to clean the EGR.

theojo

02-24-2023, 01:28 AM

Well mine is an 84 yours is an 89. Might be somewhat diff for 89. Tim would know. In this thread I mentioned how I removed tube from exhaust to egr. Then just lift out Egr with tube attached. If you can blow through tube with vacuum on small hose then egr is not blocked
Maybe you’ll see the carbon blocking the hole of the intake under the throttle body. It might be enough just to break it up to allow a path for the air from the exhaust to get into the intake.

But when I removed mine 23 years ago and cleaned it out. There was a lot
of carbon. No problems since

Ian R.

02-24-2023, 10:23 PM

Update. I was able to get all the ERG components off. They all are working properly. The EGR Valve diaphragm works. The diagram is able to open the valve and hold the vacuum, allowing air to pass through the exhaust recirculation pipe . The ERG vacuum modulator works. It allows air to pass freely through EGR valve port through ports P and R, blows air through the top filter when ports P and R are plugged, and closes the ports when pressure is applied to the bottom where it connects to the pipe on bottom of the ERG Valve.

So I am kinda scratching my head here. If the ERG system components are working, why would the engine not die or run rough when ERG valve is completely open at idle. Could the opening for the ERG to surge tank be plugged? I gave it a healthy dose of carb cleaner and will let it soak overnight. Maybe I will try to blow air through rubber hose covering the opening where the EGR Valve attaches to see if it clear and unobstructed. I should also check the opening on the exhaust pipe.

On one had I am relieved that all the NLA parts are working. On the other hand I cant figure out why it is not recirculating exhaust .:dizzy:

theojo

02-25-2023, 01:27 AM

by surge tank you mean the part of the intake the EGR bolts to? that was my problem. you could get a close fitting hose into that hole and blow to see if air gets through to the intake valves. you might have to turn the engine by hand to make sure one of the valves is open. also could be the port in the exhaust. just turn the engine on and you'll hear it come out of the metal tube going to the EGR

Ian R.

04-20-2023, 04:28 PM

I eventually past CA Smog and thought it would nice to share the progression of emissions improvements as parts were repaired/replaced. While not all variables are held constant, I think it provides useful information those that are trying to diagnose emissions problems

Note that the ignition timing was to spec for all tests.

This test shows what CA smog emissions look like with an egr that is not functioning, a failed catalytic converter, old PCV Valve and 02 senors.
12084

Here are the results with the EGR repaired and functioning as the only change from previous test.
12085

Here are the results with a the EGR repaired and functioning, catalytic converter replaced with a CA cat, new PCV, new O2 senors (up/down stream)
12086