Idler Arm and Gearbox

[tmiron]

I took my van in for an alignment at Midas today. They did the alignment but said my "idler arm and gear box are loose." Are these things I can fix myself? Do I need ones or do they just need to be tightened? On the way home from Midas I noticed that the car is still pulling to the right. I called them and they said it was because of the idler arm.

[Burntboot]

Either the front end is "tight" and adjustments are made to compensate for wear and tear to bring everything into spec
OR
There are parts that require replacement before the alignment can be performed.

I would learn how to inspect the front end myself and effect any repairs that are required.

On the upside, at least you found out where NOT to take your vehicle for repairs.
BB

[timsrv]

Having places like this lie to you is unfortunately pretty common. I've dealt with the Battle Ground, WA Les Schwab for many years and those guys are sharp and always tell me the truth. Shortly after we moved (last year) I took my 91 All-Trac Previa to a different Les Schwab (local to our new address). It had irregular wear issues on the front tires so I knew it had an alignment issue. They agreed to align and install new tires. So about 30 minutes after dropping it off I get a call saying they needed me to come talk to them regarding repairs. When I got there I was told the new tires were installed but they couldn't align it because I had bad tie rods. I knew this to be complete BS as I had just checked for play in the front before taking it down. When I challenged the manager and asked him to show me the problem he gave me some BS story about customers not being allowed in the shop.

So I ended up driving it to the Les Schwab in Battle Ground where the guys gave it a thorough inspection and told me everything was "nice & tight". When I told them about the other store, they apologized and aligned the Previa for free. All I'm saying is if you don't know how to check yourself you are vulnerable to this sort of thing. If you don't want to get dirty, then at least take the van to another alignment place and get a 2nd opinion. Don't tell them what the 1st place said. If they come to the same conclusion then it's safe to say they are being honest with you. Tim

[tmiron]

So, I took it back and complained today. They out it back on the machine and did a new alignment. It was "toe in" still and they had forgot to adjust the "caster". When they finished up it was still pulling to the right. They said it was most likely the idler arm and I told them if they knew it was they idler arm the whole time then why did they even do the alignment?

The guy agreed that if I replace the idler arm and brought the car back with in 30 days that they would do a new alignment for free. I have two questions....

1. Is this even worth it? I don't mind it pulling to one side that much as long as it's not going to hurt the car or my gas mileage.

2. If I do replace it, should I look for a new part or could I get one off a car int he junk yard that has 100K on it?

[Burntboot]

Working backwards - new or used depends on you and you finances but given how cheap they are (A/M <$100)
But first you need to determine if that part is really required.
If something is broken, it needs to be corrected or it WILL get more expensive the longer you ignore it.

Sorry, but I am suspicious of anyone who does an alignment and "forgets" to make some adjustments, especially Toe.
Besides, if there is play in the linkage, you can adjust all day long and it will never be right.
Their story smells and it is time to get a 2nd opinion from ANOTHER shop (preferably not a chain if possible) or better yet, check it out yourself.

Another thing to consider - many other things can cause a "pull", from a soft tire to a dragging brake, among a couple of dozen other things.

[timsrv]

Yes, I agree. A worn idler wouldn't cause pull anyhow.........it might create some slop in the steering, but not pull. A bad alignment or perhaps uneven tire wear could cause pull. Try rotating your tires diagonally to see if it changes. Then go to another alignment shop and get a 2nd opinion. Tim

[toad]

Back in a previous life I used to be an alignment mechanic. Unfortunately Tim's experience is all too common. While there are great shops, there are also bad ones. If the shop can't or won't show you the play in the parts they suggest replacing, go elsewhere and get a second opinion.

The others are correct, a worn idler arm can't cause a pull. But it can cause, as Tim says, slop in the steering, which makes it impossible to set the toe in correctly. If it's either toeing in too much or too little, both tires aren't pointed straight ahead when it's driving down the road, and this can cause the vehicle to wander and handle poorly, and of course its hard on tires. In other words, if the idler arm has play it's a good idea to change it and get another alignment.

I agree -- swapping the tires will tell you if the tires are making the pull and I'd start there. If it's not the tires, the pull has to be either the camber or caster adjustment.

On a side note, does anyone know what the caster setting fromt he factory is for one of these vans? I seem to remember that they came with high negative caster which helps the steering wheel return to straight after going around a corner.

[rkent]

Hey Guys,

This site has truly helped me diagnose and ultimately keep my van alive. Thanks you!!
Does anyone know if the center arm is the same throughout all the TV years?

-Ryan

[nikifix]

Ryan, there are a few guys here looking for that part.....it is only found on 84-85 vans.............important to check it for slop before removal from donor van and important to do a good lube job on it before using it...i cant find it as a new part anywhere........if you do let us know...NIk

[rkent]

Thanks Nik, I have been unablue to find a new one and am waiting for a donor to show up at the junk yard. Thanks for the info! I'll let you know if I find anything.
-Ryan

[timsrv]

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/entry.php?171-center-arm&bt=417

[nikifix]

thanks for that Tim and "Red" thanks you too........

[brentlehr]

Gonna bring this back up.

I've recently replaced all ball joints and inner and outer tie rods, sway bar bushings and end links on my 89 van. Had my van aligned and it came back with the steering wheel about 2 inches off center when driving straight. Took it back and they told me there's too much play in my 'gearbox' to correct it. I feel like this is a bunch of b.s. b/c it was fine before.

Anyway, I do have a little over an inch of free play at the steering wheel. Close to spec but off. Could this be in the bevel gearbox?

I do feel like the van wanders some as well and just doesn't handle as well as it used too despite new tires, shocks, and the before mentioned suspension work. Could this be the idler arm? Or maybe Goodyear just screwed me and I need to go to another alignment shop?

Also, I found the part number for the bevel gear box but not the idler arm. Anyone know it?

Thanks.

[brentlehr]

Ok, I crawled under the van and inspected everything but don't see an idler arm. Am I overlooking something obvious here or are there differences btw the early and late model steering?

But, I think I found my problem. The out tie-rod ends I put on are trash already. The boots are broken and there's up and down play. These were Beck Arnley and have about 2500 miles on them. Makes me concerned about the inner too.

[timsrv]

The center arm/idler arm are only used on the 84 - 85 vans. 86 & up use rack & pinion. More information on it here: https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/entry.php?171-center-arm. To identify your play, have somebody rock the wheel, then get under the van to see where the play is.

FYI, several years ago I replaced ball joints on my 89 van "just because". At the time my stock ball joints had 150k miles on them and they were still good. After only about 10k miles I had a badly failed ball joint, and yes, I had also used Beck Arnley. I learned a lesson about Toyota quality vs aftermarket (at least Beck Arnley). Fortunately I had kept my old joints as spares, and eventually ended up putting them back on. Tim

[brentlehr]

Thanks Tim, that's the plan. The ball joints were special order from NAPA so hopefully they will be okay. Thanks for explaining the idler arm.

[MikeLeavitt]

Hi- I'm new here & just trying to help my Dad fix his 84 Toyota Van. His center steering arm broke. The part is discontinued & we can't find any pick n' pulls anywhere who have the van or parts. I'm at my wits end trying to find this thing.

Toyota Part # 4549029445

I think it's the Center Arm but I've also seen it might be called something else (Bell Crank, Pitman Arm or Idler Arm). It's the L-shaped cast-steel bracket, about 8 x 8 inches, that connects his front-left wheel to the center steering rod. It snapped at one end. I attached pictures & diagrams below.

Last we saw the part was listed for $175. Given how hard it is to find we'd probably be willing to pay a little more, plus any shipping costs. We're next to Seattle, WA on Vashon Island.

Even if you don't have the part, let me know if you know anyone who might.
Thank you,
Mike Leavitt
206-853-0925

4313431242994302429742984296

[timsrv]

Here's something you should read...........also good info in the comments below the original post.

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/entry.php?171-center-arm

[MikeLeavitt]

Here's something you should read...........also good info in the comments below the original post.

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/entry.php?171-center-arm

awesome. thanks so much. I'll edit this post because now I know the freakin name of the part. thank you!!!

[gushaman]

Howdy, if you end up not being able to find one here, you may look at breakers, or junkyards, overseas. Japan, austrailia, canada, and mexico all got more of these vans than we did

[MikeLeavitt]

Howdy, if you end up not being able to find one here, you may look at breakers, or junkyards, overseas. Japan, austrailia, canada, and mexico all got more of these vans than we did
i was starting to wonder about overseas options. hard to believe there's nothing in the U.S. but maybe that's the case. Thanks so much for the suggestion.

[MikeLeavitt]

I've contacted breakers & junkyards in Japan & Mexico. I contacted Toyota & all LKQ locations, aftermarket parts suppliers & pick-n-pull's in the U.S. I posted wanted ads here, Craigslist & the Facebook 84-89 van group. I've searched eBay & Google.

No one has the part.

I'm sure someone out there has an '84 Van that's already being parted out. If you're interested in making a couple hundred bucks on a quick job, let me know so I can help my Dad. We'd be extremely grateful.

[timsrv]

No luck with www.rareparts.com?

[MikeLeavitt]

No luck with www.rareparts.com? (http://www.rareparts.com?)

Not yet. I contacted RareParts & emailed them pictures for a bid. At first they said they can't replace the part w/out a good 'core' (as in, the broken arm itself). They can always rebuild the assembly, ball bearings, pack grease, etc. I can ship them my broken arm to use as a template but re-manufacturing or re-fabricating a new one might cost at least $560 if not more. He was a little hesitant & I kinda had to talk Glen into it so I'm not sure if it's the best lead at this point.

I just can't believe how hard it is to find this f'ing part anywhere on the planet.

[JDM VANMAN]

I'm pretty sure the 84' & 85' share the same chassis and some parts are unique to those years. I saw you were saying something about fabricating the part for $500 plus dollars..... For that much you can get a spare van to pull from??

[MikeLeavitt]

I'm pretty sure the 84' & 85' share the same chassis and some parts are unique to those years. I saw you were saying something about fabricating the part for $500 plus dollars..... For that much you can get a spare van to pull from??

This is excellent info. Thanks so much for the reference- solving the compatibility is another issue with this mysterious & 'elusive' part.

[grantbgarner]

file:///D:/van/cl%20ads/4.JPGfile:///D:/van/cl%20ads/4.JPGfound it here for $164

http://www.megazip.net/zapchasti-dlya/toyota/arm-assy-steering-idler-4549029445

I tried to upload it as an image but was having trouble pasting it in. Is this a valid parts site?

[Ace MM]

I'm pretty sure the 84' & 85' share the same chassis and some parts are unique to those years.
If an 86 shares this part, it's not far from me
http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?4236-4YE-engine-2WD-transmission-rear-end-for-sale

[timsrv]

As JDM indicated, that part was only used in 84 - 85 vans. In 86 they went to rack & pinion. Tim

[ReggieVanBusen]

I have a lot of play in my steering wheel and some shifting if I hit a few bumps. I was told by a shop in Seattle I need my idler arm replaced at a cost of $545.

Is this a reasonable price for the fix?

Also, does anyone have a good recommendation for a shop in Seattle for things that are way over my head?

Thank you!

[timsrv]

Sounds reasonable if they can find it. My guess is they'll discover it's NLA when they try to order. If you search the forum you should be able to find a thread (or maybe blog) where a user posted a link to a shop (California I think) that will repair/rebuild your old one. These type repairs are not cheap, but there are very few options available to those who need this arm. Tim

Edit: Okay I posted a link to that blog earlier in this thread (post #10). Here's a direct link to the place that should be able to repair/rebuild: http://rareparts.com/

[jos]

I have an 85 van and one of the few things i cannot find anywhere is the center arm.6396 here is the exploded view. I need the center arm and center arm bracket. It is 2 pieces, but pressure fitted around a bushing. Is there anywhere to get one? Can i replace just the bushings? This is one of the last bits i need to get her tightened up! Please help if you have any thoughts or ideas about it.
Thanks!

[iq_artwork]

Hello everyone,

i have done some work on my ‘84 van’s suspension and I’m looking to buy these bushings in the picture below. Does anyone know what’s the right bushing size I need.

also I’m looking to find some info about gear box and drang bar.

Any help will be much appreciated! Thank you!


10120
10121
10122

[jfenwick]

Anyone tried to replace the ball joint on the center arm / bell crank themselves?
What actually gets worn out? Is there a plastic part that breaks? Or do the walls of the center arm get worn out?
I'm a machinist so I'm wondering if I can just rebuild it myself.

[timsrv]

Hello everyone,

i have done some work on my ‘84 van’s suspension and I’m looking to buy these bushings in the picture below. Does anyone know what’s the right bushing size I need.

also I’m looking to find some info about gear box and drang bar.

Any help will be much appreciated! Thank you!


10120
10121
10122


I just completely rebuilt the front suspension on my 86 van and I replaced those as part of the job. They are Toyota Part No.: 48674-29026
"Strut Bar Cushion" (https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~cushion~strut~bar~48674-29026.html). I got mine from Toyotapartsdeal.com for $32.64 each. I looked high and low for them, but other than some aftermarket ones on eBay (in Australia) these were the only ones I could find. I'm sure there are probably other applications that use this size, but I didn't have the time or inclination to search them out. Tim

PS: for the OE Toyota parts, you will need to order 2 of these ($32.64 only does one side)