Wheel bearing parts

[Cirrus]

Anybody have a good online shop for ordering a front wheel bearing kit? My mechanic said mine were shot but he wants 375+ to change them out. I was going to do it myself but my local parts shop wants around 80 bucks per side for parts($45 per inner bearing, $25 for the outers)). Does that sound reasonable? I looked at rock auto but the parts aren't labeled very well so I'm not sure how to order seals. Also, just to make sure, I need to order outer bearings with bearing race, inner bearing with bearing race, and a seal?
thanks for any help,
John

[timsrv]

Failed wheel bearings do happen but unless you or a previous owner was forging rivers I don't think it's too likely. Do you have excessive side play in your front wheels? Have your hubs been slinging excessive grease? If not then I would remove & inspect before purchasing new. Once removed bad wheel bearings are easy to spot. Things to look for are: damage to the cage, discoloration to the rollers (should be shiny silver), pitts or grooves worn in rollers, contamination with foreign material, grooves or wear in outer races. If all this looks okay then I'd simply repack & reinstall. With all the Chinese junk out there these days I would suspect an original set of bearings in decent shape are better than a new set of "economy" wheel bearings. If you do need to replace them, if you can't afford Toyota I would go with Timken or National. For grease seals I use BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0523500. I usually get those from www.rockauto.com for about $3 each. Tim

[Cirrus]

Ok Tim, I will take them apart first and do an inspection.

[joegri]

man i,ll be watching this thread.seems my van has this same issue also.to keep these vans up n running its a real job.but i,m really happy to come to TVT and find what i,m looking for! hope this turns out well for cirrus!

[fuquan]

I believe I have bad front passenger side wheel bearings. There is an audible growl which increases with speed. It doesn't matter if I am stepping on the gas or coasting, have hubs locked or unlocked, or if I am on pavement or dirt. There is no play in the wheel and it spins easily. When I swerve to toward the passenger side the growl, and associated low/mid-frequency vibration goes away. Swerving toward the driver side increases the growl slightly.


https://youtu.be/hf1DMUNkEFI


Today I pulled the bearings out and they still look fine to me. The races look fine too. I repacked these bearings a few thousand miles ago / 1-2 years ago. I have convinced myself that the bearings are the cause of the annoying growl. The grease around the inner bearing was black, while the grease around the outer bearing was blue (I used blue grease to repack both bearings).

MOD EDIT — the following part numbers are for 4WD Vans

Are the inexpensive bearings at rockauto okay? The Toyota bearings are MUCH more expensive:
Inner 90366-50011 $59.71 @ TPD
Outer 90368-45087 $36.02 @ TPD


The bearings I took out of my hub are not the same type:
Outer bearing is labeled MEXICO HT1 LM102949/O
Inner bearing is labeled JAPAN KOYO HI-CAP TRIDO802A
END EDIT

When I look up Toyota part numbers at ToyoDIY.com I do not see the races. Do Toyota roller bearings come with races? To get the races out of the hub do you just tap them out?

5374
5375

[timsrv]

Those bearings look good to me too. Perhaps a rear wheel bearing?

[fuquan]

Those bearings look good to me too. Perhaps a rear wheel bearing?

Yes perhaps it is the rear bearing. Removing rear wheel bearings sounds like no fun at all, based on posts in this forum.

For now I'm going to go with the theory that my front PS inner bearing is going bad. The grease around that bearing was black, in contrast to the fresh-looking blue grease on the outer bearing. Also (failed to mention above) I found metal specks/dust on the inside of the steering knuckle where the wheel seal meets the knuckle. Perhaps the bearing is on its way out, despite its appearance? Deterioration has to start somewhere.

Let me know if you think it's a waste of effort to replace that bearing, or for that matter inner and outer bearings. If the growl persists, I'll have wasted ~$35. If it goes away, I'll have preserved a precious summer Saturday.

[timsrv]

In my experience, bearings that make that much noise look pretty bad (big pits and chunks of metal missing and/or chunks rolling around with the bearing. The rear bearings are bathed in oil and rarely fail, but it does occasionally happen. Based on the way it changes while cornering I would expect it to be on the passenger side. Tim

[fuquan]

In my experience, bearings that make that much noise look pretty bad (big pits and chunks of metal missing and/or chunks rolling around with the bearing. The rear bearings are bathed in oil and rarely fail, but it does occasionally happen. Based on the way it changes while cornering I would expect it to be on the passenger side. Tim

Thanks, Tim. I'll check the rear passenger side bearings.

[timsrv]

Once you get the brake parts out of the way and the bolts for the bearing retainer off you will need a big slide hammer to pull the axle. If you don't have one you should be able to rent from a tool place. In a pinch I've used a big cinder block with a chain to remove, but a slide hammer makes the job much easier. Rear bearings are not so easy to inspect, but you should be able to rotate and feel irregularities if it's bad. If it rotates nice and smooth, then it might be okay............however, if I went to the trouble to pull it out, I'd want to replace it (just because). The bearing is an "interference fit" on the axle, so if you do it yourself, you'll likely need to destruct it to remove. I use a big portable grinder with a grinding wheel to grind through the outer race (on each side), then after the outer race and the bearings re removed I grind through the inner race (as close as I dare) to the axle. At that point I'll nail it hard with a chisel and the inner race will crack on the thin spot. Once it cracks it will slide right off the axle.

To install the new bearing heat works well. If you heat up the bearing it will expand enough to slide right on. If you have a chest freezer, put the axle in that and pull it out just before bearing installation. You can heat the bearing in a number of ways, but the safest (for the bearing) is to heat it in an oil bath. I have an outside propane burner for cooking and that thing puts out some crazy heat. I put some oil in a pot, drop the bearing in, and bring it up to ~300 deg F or so. Then I'll grab the bearing with a pair of tongs and drop it on the axle. If you do it right it will fall into place. Just remember that oil is flammable so take the proper precautions to protect yourself (especially if you're using a gas burner). If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, I don't think having it done would be that expensive.........especially if you brought the bearing and the axle to a shop. Most shops will use a press to remove/install. Tim

[fuquan]

Rear bearings are not so easy to inspect, but you should be able to rotate and feel irregularities if it's bad. If it rotates nice and smooth, then it might be okay............however, if I went to the trouble to pull it out, I'd want to replace it (just because).

I have seen some videos where people diagnose bad bearings by lifting one drive wheel, starting the engine, and depressing the gas pedal to get the wheel spinning. Then compare to the other drive wheel. Would this be a productive route to determine if it the rear PS bearing is bad, before going to the trouble of pulling the axle?

[timsrv]

I have seen some videos where people diagnose bad bearings by lifting one drive wheel, starting the engine, and depressing the gas pedal to get the wheel spinning. Then compare to the other drive wheel. Would this be a productive route to determine if it the rear PS bearing is bad, before going to the trouble of pulling the axle?

Perhaps, but according to you the noise goes away when the weight is shifted off the bearing. :doh:

[timsrv]

I suppose it could be side load that reduces/increases noise.........if that's the case, then it could be either bearing..........maybe even the D/S front. Tim

[fuquan]

I have an extra rear end, one with 85K miles that I got from saucymonkey. Perhaps it is finally time to swap it out with the 314K rear end under my van. Haven't looked at it for a while but I remember some rust. I'll investigate and perhaps create a new blog entry or thread.

[fuquan]

I suppose it could be side load that reduces/increases noise.........if that's the case, then it could be either bearing..........maybe even the D/S front. Tim

Sounds like it might be worth checking the D/S front bearings. Those are the ones that I did not inspect/repack when I replaced the rotors.

[fuquan]

This is what I found on the driver side front bearings - chips. Metal flecks come off in the paper towel as I wipe/roll them down. Noticeably more play overall in the driver versus passenger side bearings. Not sure what's up with the noise going away when I swerve toward the passenger side (suggesting bad passenger side bearings). In any case, the driver side bearings are definitely bad, so I will replace them and go from there.

5398 5399

[fuquan]

For grease seals I use BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0523500. I usually get those from www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com) for about $3 each. Tim

This may be a dumb question, but which side of the wheel/grease seal goes in toward the inner bearing, and which side goes out (toward the center of the van), A or B? Pictured are both sides of the Beck/Arnley 0523500.

5413

[timsrv]

Sort of hard to tell from the pics, but I think it's A that goes toward the bearing. Here's how you figure it out: Take your thumb nail and try to pull the rubber away from the metal ring (try it on each side). You will find that on one side the rubber is firmly attached to the metal, but the other side will separate (open) to reveal a metal spring inside. The side that opens (with spring) faces the bearing/grease. The side that's firmly attached faces the exterior of the hub. With this type seal the open side always faces the side you want protected (the side with the oil or grease). Tim

[fuquan]

Thanks, Tim. Side A is the side that I can peal back to reveal the spring.

[fuquan]

Really odd that the DS bearings were the bad ones. But it was easy to confirm this by spinning them in my hand (DS were gritty and chunky while PS were smooth and quiet. So I replaced both PS and DS bearings with TIMKENs from rock auto. Noise is gone. Back to a quiet ride. :thmbup:

I was quite nervous about over-tightening the spindle nuts. I put the wheel on, tightened the nut by hand, spun the wheel again and again to work the grease around, then tightened by hand until I got all the play out of the wheel, then I backed it off 1/2 - 1 flat (leaving a tiny bit of 6 o'clock - 12 o'clock play). After that I tightened the locknut pretty hard (watching to make sure the inner nut didn't move. Sound okay? After tightening the locknut the play in the wheel was gone and the wheel seemed to spin fine.

Ps. Both inner bearings, TIMKEN 51702, were KOYO and their boxes said 'Made in Japan', While the outer bearings, TIMKEN SET47, actually said TIMKEN on them, and their boxes said 'Made in USA'.

[timsrv]

That's awesome! Sometimes bearing noise can be tricky to diagnose. Usually it's the opposite side (side under load) that gets louder. Those type problems are a bit unusual with the wet tapered bearings (more common with the sealed type ball bearings). Glad you found it with minimal labor. Regarding retaining nut tightness.......the FSM actually says to torque it a bit. It's a very low number like 4 or 5 lbs (if I remember right). I always had a problem with that as it contradicts my training (from way, way back) and could never bring myself to do that. It sounds like you did it similar to the way I do. I always tighten a tiny bit beyond (probably similar to what the FSM says), spin the wheel, then back-off to hand tight (just enough to remove any pre-loaded torque). I've always set wet tapered bearings this way and have never had any issues with them (never once had a come-back). Tim

[AntHamel]

In my experience, bearings that make that much noise look pretty bad (big pits and chunks of metal missing and/or chunks rolling around with the bearing. The rear bearings are bathed in oil and rarely fail, but it does occasionally happen. Based on the way it changes while cornering I would expect it to be on the passenger side. Tim

Hey Tim, sorry for the dumb question, but just for clarification, are the rear wheel bearings lubricated by the same gear oil in the rear dif? So by changing the gear oil you are also changing the oil to both rear wheel bearings? I just did my drum brakes in the back and the wheel bearings sound rough (there's no wobble or wiggle though). A mechanic friend said they're lubricated by the gear oil and that once I drive around a little bit and allow the oil to recirculate the noise should go away (this van I brought back to life, it's been sitting since 2005). What do you think?

[timsrv]

old/dirty oil is still oil, so if it made noise with the old, I wouldn't expect it to go away with the new. If however you had a leak and there was little to no oil, then I hope it would change, but not count on it. FYI, unless you have a leak, the differential oil level should never get low. But if for some reason it does get low, the wheel bearings would be the 1st things to go dry. Tim

[MarkH]

There is a seal between the oil-filled differential and the bearing so the gear oil shouldn't reach the bearing. The bearing is lubricated with grease before installation. The bearings I used were pre-greased and sealed so I didn't have to worry about packing them with grease. Actually, I think these wheel bearings are all sealed now.

[AntHamel]

old/dirty oil is still oil, so if it made noise with the old, I wouldn't expect it to go away with the new. If however you had a leak and there was little to no oil, then I hope it would change, but not count on it. FYI, unless you have a leak, the differential oil level should never get low. But if for some reason it does get low, the wheel bearings would be the 1st things to go dry. Tim


There is a seal between the oil-filled differential and the bearing so the gear oil shouldn't reach the bearing. The bearing is lubricated with grease before installation. The bearings I used were pre-greased and sealed so I didn't have to worry about packing them with grease. Actually, I think these wheel bearings are all sealed now.

Seems to be some disagreement :LOL2:

Maybe the bearings come greased for some initial lubrication, but after that they share the gear oil with the rear differential? :cnfsd:

[MarkH]

I don't think the gear oil is ever supposed to get past that seal and reach the bearing. If it did, it could dilute or flush out the grease, causing improper lubrication of the bearing and wear. I don't even think the normal level of gear oil in the differential is high enough to flood those axle housings. When you're driving and everything is turning, I'm sure there is lots of oil splashing around and some can fling around in the housings, but it should drain back into the diff constantly and that seal should stop it from getting out towards the wheel bearing.

[MarkH]

11174

[timsrv]

In looking at the diagram I'd have to agree with Mark. I've never had problems with van rear wheel bearings before (knock on wood). I have however replaced them on older equipment from the 50's and 60's and those did rely on differential oil for lube. I wrongly assumed the van's axle/bearing design was the same. Thanks for calling me out on it. Tim

[originalkwyjibo]

I will concur that they are lifetime lubed double sealed bearings as I have two axles shafts with newly installed bearings sitting in my garage awaiting installation.