Blower motor- speeds lost. Resister pack fix.

[Harbilly]

I covered this before on another site but here we go again. These are my words, I wrote them and now I'm using them again.
Okay. So two of the three coils were burned out On my resistor pack and my front heater fan ran on fast and fastest only. I thought about getting out my nickel wire and trial and erroring my own coils but I found it much easier to go to the wrecker and buy the 'sealed in ceramic' resistor pack from a previa (the connector was the same though the thing itself is bigger and has a two screw rectangular plate -- look for the fan under the front hood of the newer vans and find the wire and plug to guide you to the pack). Undo two screws. Pay for it. Walk to your Vanwagon and just plug it in. At first mine was wedged half way in to the hole that fit the old one but later I carved the hole bigger and got the whole ceramic block inside the plenum and in to the air stream so the flowing air could do its job in terms of helping cool the part. The fan now seems to have low, medium, medium again and really fast. I can live with this. It was an easy fix.
In any case, the older previa van resistor packs are REALLY easy to find at the wreckers whereas our packs are all pretty much long gone. Just remember: the ceramic enclosed previa pack will get HOT just like our open air coils. (Lower speed setting = more heat). This seems to be fine but if the ceramic is not inserted into an enlargened opening but merely left resting on the plastic plenum it WILL melt the plastic. Once the access hole is carefully made bigger it is possible to set the pack in the air stream and all seems well.

[Sean]

So the thought I had on these resistor packs was to figure out the resistance of each resistor and just solder some new ones on the old fitting... Resistors are fairly common pieces of electronics and you may be able to rebuild them from radio shack for a 2 or 3 bucks. I may have to do this soon because there's no low on my front fan.

Sean

[timsrv]

So the thought I had on these resistor packs was to figure out the resistance of each resistor and just solder some new ones on the old fitting... Resistors are fairly common pieces of electronics and you may be able to rebuild them from radio shack for a 2 or 3 bucks. I may have to do this soon because there's no low on my front fan.

Sean


These resistors would need to be rated pretty high.........like 50w or so. Radio Shack has lots of the little guys (maybe up to 1 watt), but I don't think they have anything big enough for this application. I sort of like the Previa resistor replacement idea, but not too keen on cutting my van. Since the stock resistors last about 100k miles or so IMO it's not worth hacking the van (I like clean and easy). I seem to go through blower motors more frequently than resistors anyhow, so I'm content with the stock ones. Tim

[Harbilly]

Ya, I was going to point out the heat thing.

I hear you Tim but I got tired of waiting for a stock resister pack to show up in the boneyard that wasn't burned out. They're pretty rare here. I just assumed Toyota was a dead reed on this but maybe They are not. Or Tonkin or 1st might have them. I really didn't do my homework on availability. Sometimes I get tunnel vision and just assume parts are no longer available.

I don't mind cutting my van. The first hole I drilled through the body was traumatic but now that stuff doesn't phase me.

[timsrv]

Well, I do remember feeling some pain last time I bought one from Toyota.......It was around $50 I think. www.RockAuto.com (http://www.RockAuto.com) has them for about half that, but there's some confusion with those guys about front vs back. I ordered from them 1st, but got the one for the back instead. I'm guessing if I would have ordered the one for the back I would have got the one for the front.......but who knows :cnfsd:. Tim

[llamavan]

You paid HOW MUCH, Tim??? :yikes: Last time I bought a batch, they were a lot less than that.

It wouldn't be so easy for those with A/C, but the part to cut into is just plastic — the front half of the air chamber as it comes out of the blower motor — and those are easy to pull from non-A/C parts vans (gotta get that blower motor post up so's ya'll can see what I'm talking about ... OK, that's the NEXT indoor project!).

I've been wanting to do the Previa resistor pack fix for awhile because it should be permanent — the ceramic protects the resistors. (Alas, my vans always find other priorities for me. :rolleyes: I still love 'em anyway. :yes:)

Gwen

[timsrv]

Yeah, it was spendy. I might be remembering it wrong, but I don't think so. I have an account at a local dealership that automatically gives me 30% off of MSRP, and the price I paid was including my discount :(:. Tim

[sdwvan]

hey all - I have a related issue, I just ordered new resistors, relays and blower motor to try to resurrect the heater since the PO neglected the poor thing. Since the whole dash is disassembled I found a receptacle on the harness unused and unplugged near the blower motor, there is also a bolt missing that mounts to the far left side of the squirrel cage and upside down. It seems like I may be missing some switch/relay/computer to something. I've been pouring over the online manual but haven't found anything. The items on the van that aren't functioning include, AC, Cruise, windshield spray, heater, blower motor, rear heater/blower. So it could be related to any of these. I'll try to post the pic, it's a bit blurry but the connecter I'm talking about has yellow tape on it. Appreciate any input!
Thanks
Scott

[timsrv]

I'm not sure what that's for.......sort of hard to tell anything from that picture. If you could get a close-up shot of the pin configuration and / or tell me how many wires and the colors of them I could probably figure it out. My guess is it's not related to the blower circuit, but who knows.

When you have a blower problem the 1st thing to do is check the breaker. There are 2 of these (one for the front blower and one for the back). Use a paper clip or something small to stick into the little black hole (see picture below). If the breaker is tripped, you should hear a metallic click and the fan should start working again. You should have your fan set on high to test just in case the resistor is burned out. If that doesn't work, then check for 12vdc at the blower motor leads. Don't use a common ground (put your meter leads directly on the wires going to the motor). Report back what you find and we'll continue on from there (if needed). Tim
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/IMG_5831.jpg

[llamavan]

That connector is for the "ice maker," which your van doesn't have. It's part of the wiring harness for all vans with factory air conditioning.

That's the good news. The bad news is that the connector has nothing to do with your heater.

However, your non-working A/C, rear heater, and front heater blower may be the result of a common cause ... there is a common fuse, for instance, labeled A/C. I know this because I thought I would be clever and remove it when I removed Skylervan's A/C. Next time I went to drive him, no heater blower. :confused: Wasted a LOT of time trying to figure out what I stoopidly done to myself. :dizzy::doh:

Gwen

[sdwvan]

You're both awesome. I've been chasing volts and ohms through-out the dash, but I finally found a heater relay on the fuse block with some corrosion. I swapped in a similar relay from the cruise control and bam heater blower. It's only working on high so now I'm just waiting for my resistor that I ordered from Rockauto. Hopefully that will do it. I'll find out this weekend when I can work on it.
Thanks so much
Scott

[timsrv]

Gwen is most likely correct. I was thinking maybe ice maker harness, but couldn't get enough detail in that picture. FWIW, vans with factory AC have a 6 position harness plug (with 5 positions filled) that's taped off to the resistor harness (on the vans without ice makers). Now that I think about it, I think they usually use yellow tape.

Regardless or what that connector is for it sounds like you got it figured out. I'm interested to find out what RockAuto sends you. They sent me the wrong one when I ordered through them. Please report back with brand, part number, price, and if it actually works. Tim

[sdwvan]

ok I finally got to finish the project. What a PITA. Ordered new parts from Rock auto, replaced the resistor, the heater, the blower relay and the blower motor. Now have a fully functioning heater both front and rear. Thanks Tim and Gwen, I did find that the taped off plug is for the ice maker. Importantly, I ordered front and rear Four Seasons resistors from rockauto.com. The part numbers for the front is 20227 and rear is 20160, it appears to be correct on the website.
I'm super excited to be making progress on the van. The PO really neglected some things.
cheers and thanks
Scott

[timsrv]

That's great! Thanks for the up-date and part number information. I'll probably order a couple of those to have around just in case they become NLA. Tim

[IronhideVA]

Gwen is most likely correct. I was thinking maybe ice maker harness, but couldn't get enough detail in that picture. FWIW, vans with factory AC have a 6 position harness plug (with 5 positions filled) that's taped off to the resistor harness (on the vans without ice makers). Now that I think about it, I think they usually use yellow tape.

Regardless or what that connector is for it sounds like you got it figured out. I'm interested to find out what RockAuto sends you. They sent me the wrong one when I ordered through them. Please report back with brand, part number, price, and if it actually works. Tim

I had an extra plug down there, but it was blue, it was for the black speaker box under the radio. plug n play for me!

I do have a question though, my front air controls have 4 positions, low to high. the 1st position doesent work at all, 2 and 3 work, and position 4 works sometimes but cuts out when on full blast a/c? so far with heat it doesent cut off. Anybody know what could be the problem with position 1 not working at all, and position 4 being weird? my rear unit works fine on all speeds but the rear heat doesent get very hot at all, does the heater core need replacing? when front and rear a/c are on together the rear doesent get that cold either, is this normal for the vans age? I had the r12 converted to r134a with new compressor and components/hoses.

[timsrv]

Your lowest speed on your front blower not working sounds like a burned out blower resistor. The fan not working on high with AC at times is a bit odd. If it did the same thing with heat, I would suspect the blower motor was failing. I guess it's not too urgent getting that dealt with right away since we're in the beginning of winter. Next time it does it test the motor to see if it's getting voltage. If it's getting voltage, then the motor is going bad. If it's got no voltage there, then you'll need to do some troubleshooting. Use the electrical schematics in the service manual and trace the circuit until you find the place that voltage drops off at, then you'll have found the problem.

As for rear HVAC, I've never been too impressed with the performance of rear AC on these. R134A doesn't work quite as good as R12 in systems originally designed for R12, so to me your issue sounds normal.

I'm not sure about the rear heat issue. Does your temperature gauge indicate a normal running temp? Does your slider for temp control move? These rear sliders get messed up just like the front so just make sure that things are moving on the other end of the cables when you move the rear controls. If all that looks good, then I might start to suspect a plugged up heater core........but in my experience, that doesn't happen very often. Tim

[EZHIKER]

I just came across a bad dash blower switch on my latest project. Low did not work, the other 3 speed were fine. My resistor pack was replaced first and still no low. Swapped in another blower switch and it was fine.

[timsrv]

Yes, I should have mentioned that as a possibility. That resistor is so often the culprit it's easy to forget a faulty switch can cause this problem too. Good point. Tim

[IronhideVA]

I will check these things out, thanks to all for the help. :thmbup:

[Flounder]

Don't want to hijack the thread or anything...I'm troubleshooting a loss of ventilation in my van, too. None of the fans are working, front or back, heating or A/C. I've checked everything in the manual and everything in this thread. The problem seems to be the A/C cut relay. I can't find its location in the "Body Electrical" section of the manual, though. Am I just overlooking it? :cnfsd:

EDIT: The problem IS the A/C cut relay. Shorting the contacts on the front heater relay enables the front cabin fan to operate in all speeds. Still can't find the lousy cut relay, though. At least the fan is running, and I don't have to start driving in the morning with foggy windows...

[timsrv]

The problem seems to be the A/C cut relay. I can't find its location in the "Body Electrical" section of the manual, though.


I'm not entirely sure this relay is the cause of your problem, but it's behind the lower right corner of your glove box. Good luck. Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/electrical/ACcutrelay.jpg

[Flounder]

Thanks for the information, Tim - you are our greatest technical resource. :thmbup:

It turns out that the A/C cut relay was my problem - because it WASN'T THERE!! Neither were the two fuses, the blower relay, nor the circuit breaker! And the bracket where they're mounted was turned upside-down! Fortunately I've always made a point of salvaging electrical parts, so was able to put everything in its place. I think the two fuses are 15 amp.
That's the last time I let anyone who doesn't understand electricity replace my blower resistor...

[timsrv]

Ha Ha, not being there could certainly explain a lot. But that brings up the question of where these components went. Did this van not have a working fan from the day you purchased? These relays usually don't just get up and walk away :lol:. Glad you got it figured out :thmbup:. Tim

Yes, these 2 fuses are 15A. Are you saying a "mechanic" did this to your van :dizzy: ? :hmr:

[Flounder]

When I first bought the van about 5 years ago, the two lowest speeds on the front cabin fan were not working. I knew right away what the problem was. But I wasn't driving the van much, and not at all during the winter. Last winter, just before leaving to go to work overseas, I put it into storage at a friend's place in central CA and asked him to replace the blower resistor; even showed him pictures of where it went. When I came back, ALL of the fans were inoperative. Just got around to troubleshooting a couple of weeks ago. I'm taking the van down to CA in a couple of weeks; will look for the missing parts then.
Thanks again for the assistance, Tim!

[F22hb]

Figured I'd post in this thread since I just had to deal with this. I went ahead and just ordered the part off rock auto. Takes 5 minutes to swap out and I have the two low settings again so it's not full blast or nothing! Glad I stumbled upon this thread, I thought it would be more in-depth to fix haha.
Picture of new (Four Seasons) and old (Oem).:thmbup:
1052

[Fillupamerica]

I have a 1988 toyota 2wd cargo van. Since i bought the van 3 years ago the heat never has worked. Now i'm living in SLC where i NEED heat!! it's been a brutal winter thus far. As for the van, I found this forum and looked at the heater relay, and the breakers. both the front and back breakers seem fine. I pressed the buttons on them both (which isn't really a button that presses...?) and nothing. when i turn the heater from off to low it makes a click clack sound that is coming from the blower motor maybe. As i don't have an ohm meter i can't tell whether or not there is juice going to the blower motor. I think the blower motor is done and that the click clack sound is current trying to get it going, and it ends at the motor. I do not know though. Can anyone help? I replaced the relay for the heater, and still nothing. Also on the A/C circuit with the photo, there is 2 15amp fuses. In my van I am missing the right one, but not just the fuse, there is nothing inside this fuse housing. no wires leading to it. Now i don't imagine the breakers are bad, seeing as how they are super basic. and the relays are fine, i have extras, and i don't imagine these break very often either.

as well as the windshield wiper fluid... this is another thing. It did work at one point. Then I never felt the need to use it, so i didn't for a long time. Now I need it. It's not working. .When i press the button, the motor in the back kicks on, and shoots fluid out of the motor. not at first, but after about 4 seconds comes fluid flowing out. I wonder if somewhere in the hose, it's either frozen or pinched, causing a backup and then fluid to come out of the pump. Or is the pump faulty?

Any help would be appreciated! -sam

[EZHIKER]

Remove your glove box, and then then the relay cluster behind it. The resistor pack is lower left of the blower motor in the air plenum, usually a white plug, 2 screws holding in the resistor pack. Pull it, inspect the coils on the back side, if they are broken it will be obvious and then there's your problem. Check your fuse cluster as well. Aftermarket resistor pack are available or maybe save a few bucks and get lucky at a wrecking yard. There is also a relay built into the fan speed switch.Check your fuses and resistor pack 1st.

[timsrv]

Here's a quote from earlier in this thread:


When you have a blower problem the 1st thing to do is check the breaker. There are 2 of these (one for the front blower and one for the back). Use a paper clip or something small to stick into the little black hole (see picture below). If the breaker is tripped, you should hear a metallic click and the fan should start working again. You should have your fan set on high to test just in case the resistor is burned out. If that doesn't work, then check for 12vdc at the blower motor leads. Don't use a common ground (put your meter leads directly on the wires going to the motor). Report back what you find and we'll continue on from there (if needed). Tim
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/IMG_5831.jpg

Note: Having a blown resistor won't prevent fan operation on high.

[Fillupamerica]

alright i checked for voltage at the blower motor leads and there is nothing. There is voltage at the blower relay next to the a/c cut relay. also when i switch the fan from off to low I hear a click clack that is coming from the main heater relay just above the fuse box.

[edit] THERE IS VOLTAGE at the leads to the blower motor! so.... bad blowor then?
The resistor is toast as well. but should still work on high with a bad resistor.

[timsrv]

If the motor is receiving voltage, but not running, then it's toast. Here's a thread that should help you replace: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?680-front-heater-blower-works-slow-doesn-t-work-works-again

[Fillupamerica]

Thanks Tim. I'll repost when i replace it this weekend or next!! fun fun! :lol::lol::lol:

[Fillupamerica]

All right! Heck yeah! who's got heat rolling in their whip? This guy!! :wave1::wave1::grpwave:

an easier job than i though it'd be. but damn, how many screws are there in a regular dashboard? there had to have been about 20+ in this one. whew. that was fun.

Tim thanks for the help.

[sammylf]

Hey i recently purchased a Tarago 89 and its been fine but recently the fan stopped working completely. it did resume a few weeks later but no doesn't work again on any speeds. I can hear the relay pulling in but nothing happens. I can't find a fuse in the fuse box so wondered if there is one in another location?

Also my dash lights stopped working? is this a fuse or will the bulb need to be replaced??

Help would be much appreciated :)

Thanks

[timsrv]

Hi & welcome to TVT! FYI, there is a search feature in the upper right corner of every forum page. I understand the desire for quick answers, but we ask that you use the search feature before starting new threads. If you cannot find the answers you seek, then please post your question in a thread of the same or similar subject matter. This helps keep the forum organized.

This is a subject that has been discussed many times in several threads. I went ahead and moved your post to an existing thread. If this thread and subsequent searches fail to answer your question, please post again here. Thank you :wave2:. Tim

[ReggieVanBusen]

Where can I buy breakers, specifically the yellow top ones in the picture below, online? I tried a few auto parts stores and have shopped around online without any success. The power window one on mine has been completely blown.

Any recommendations?

Thank you!


I'm not sure what that's for.......sort of hard to tell anything from that picture. If you could get a close-up shot of the pin configuration and / or tell me how many wires and the colors of them I could probably figure it out. My guess is it's not related to the blower circuit, but who knows.

When you have a blower problem the 1st thing to do is check the breaker. There are 2 of these (one for the front blower and one for the back). Use a paper clip or something small to stick into the little black hole (see picture below). If the breaker is tripped, you should hear a metallic click and the fan should start working again. You should have your fan set on high to test just in case the resistor is burned out. If that doesn't work, then check for 12vdc at the blower motor leads. Don't use a common ground (put your meter leads directly on the wires going to the motor). Report back what you find and we'll continue on from there (if needed). Tim
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/IMG_5831.jpg

[timsrv]

These things don't fail very often. Personally I'd grab a few extras from a salvage yard. I think it's likely you could still order these from Toyota (probably expensive though). Tim

[ReggieVanBusen]

These things don't fail very often. Personally I'd grab a few extras from a salvage yard. I think it's likely you could still order these from Toyota (probably expensive though). Tim


Thanks Tim! I figured as much. Headed to Pick n Pull tomorrow to see if I can find anything. If not I found some $30 ones online.

[ReggieVanBusen]

Ok, so I found 30A breakers, but was trying to find a 20A breaker.

Could I use a 30A breaker instead or will it ruin the circuit?

Thank you in advance for the help!

[timsrv]

Breakers are there to protect the wires and should be rated slightly below max capability of wire (you want the breaker to blow before the wires melt down). If the circuit is rated for 20 and you're using a 30, you are living dangerously. It would be fine if there's never a malfunction, but things could get exciting (and expensive) if there's ever an overload. Tim

[JDM VANMAN]

Well the blower motor has finally decided to retire after 30 plus years, I’ve been looking and reading thru the thread to find the location of the resistor pack on the van and also in the previa so I can pull those parts along with the blower motor.

Anyone have a photo of what it looks like and the location (van wagon/Previa) that would be a tremendously helpful. I think there’s a few Previas in the yard, if they look good and I have time I’ll pull all of them.

Thank you:thmbup:

JDM

[SoORYotas]

M -

We all help each other, right. In the van the r-pack is located on the lower left corner of the blower motor assembly. Reference the post by fillupamerica 12/9/2013 in this thread and the pic showing the blower motor assembly. See the little black plastic thing behind the relay fuse tray marked with 263 - that is the r-pac. For the Previa (if I remember the posts correctly) you lift the hood and look at the heater blower motor case assembly on the right side of the firewall. Both of these use a 4 wire plug assembly but have different shapes -pentangle on the original van and square on the Previa. You have to hack the blower motor case a little to use the Previa r-pack.
Cheers!

SoORYotas

[JDM VANMAN]

Thanks for the heads up, I’m here now and someone already took it. I’ll post a picture later today. Off to the previa!!

thank you

JDM

[JDM VANMAN]

I think this is where it’s located, but already gone. The Previas in the yard already had them pulled as well.

Resistor pack location?


http://i.imgur.com/OzR7C3X.jpg




JDM

[meetim]

I have two vans ('86, '87) on both of which the low speed fan resistor is blown.
Has anyone measured the Ohm-age of the resistors such that they could be duplicated one way or the other?
Lets call them small (low), Medium (M1), Large (M2)
I have measured Medium & Large at around 1.1 and 0.8 Ohms, respectively.
does anyone have the ohm-age of the small resistor?
Thanks

11211

[MarkH]

I found that the resistance is pretty standard across many models of old Toyotas (Camry, pickups, etc.) The resistance values for them are: 0.4, 0.8, 1.5 Ohms. I've used these values for rebuilding the resistors on my old Tercels and my Van and they seem to work fine. I have no idea if the fan speeds are slightly off, but they seem close enough to me. When measuring the resistance with many meters, be sure to minus the internal resistance of the meter itself. I touch the 2 leads of the meter together and see what it reads then minus that from my measurements. I used Nichrome wire as the resistors. I measured the length using my meter to have it at the proper resistance. I wound the lengths around a pen to make them into coils. Here's a link to my post on the 4wd Tercel forum:https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11726&p=89265&hilit=blower+resistor#p89265 I don't know if the photos will work if you're not a member.

[timsrv]

That's an awesome post on the Tercel site, thank you Mark. Unfortunately though the pics won't display for non-members, so that's a bummer. Any chance you can post them here?

PS: It's funny how the same people who like vans also like the Tercels. I've had a few Tercels, but don't currently have one. They are awesome little cars. Tim

[MarkH]

Here are the screen-grabs from that site with the photos:
11213
11214
11215
11216
Here is also more cut-and-paste from that post:
I didn't use any new solder to hold the coils in place. I agree that the high temps in the coils would probably melt regular electronics solder. The holes in the flat metal tabs are pretty small and semi-clogged with old solder so I had to force the ends of the coil wires in them. They are now held in there pretty tight (especially since I bent the ends of the wires after shoving them in the holes). Some of the original melted solder probably re-solidified around the wires in the holes as well so I'm not worried about the wires coming out.
I've heard that it's very difficult to solder ni-chrome wire anyway. During this job I tried to "silver" the ends of the wires by dipping them in flux paste and then burning it off with the tip of the iron with a drop of regular melted solder. Usually this bonds a thin coating of solder to the wire and makes it easier to stick when soldering it to something. This time, the solder refused to stick to the wires. I've never seen that before. It always works great with copper wire.

[meetim]

Short story: success! Use 1.5 or 1.8 Ohms 5W ceramic resistors.
Long story:
Given that my measured resistances for M1 and M2 differed from those provided for the Tercel, I wondered how different my low speed resistance would be.
Turns out, not different at all, or at least, 1.5 ohms seems fine.
I bought a selection of 5W and 10W ceramic resistors from the local electronics store (Jaycar) with the intention of joining them in series and parallel as required, as previous posts seemed to indicate we need to dissipate up to 20W.
I started out with the 1.5 and 1.8 ohm 5W resistors by themselves and they worked fine.
In still air (not in the fan duct), they didnt smoke or melt the solder, they didnt even get 'no-touchie' hot.
So I predict they will be just fine in situ.
Out of interest I measured the output air speed for both resistors. it tended to flicker in a range of 0.3 km/h
1.5 ohm: 6.8 - 7.1 km/h
1.8 ohm: 6.2-6.5 km/h
in case anyone wonders, the air speeds for the other settings were 13, 17 & 19 km/h.

11223

[MarkH]

Nice! I wish I could have gone that route of using pre-made ceramic resistors. I can't remember the calculations, but I assumed it would require a pretty high wattage rating which would make the resistors too big to easily fit. On mine, I could see the old resistor wire glowing red. Maybe the replacement larger gauge wire with a greater length would provide the same resistance with not as much heat. I'll remember your success if I ever have to do this again. Plus, the ceramic resistors allow for easy soldering.